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Old 04-13-2013, 02:05 AM   #610
fielderLS3


 
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Drives: 2016 Mazda6, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
Why is that optimistic? The Mustang is already confirmed to be getting a 2.3l so I can't see why we should assume the Camaro wouldn't see an engine of comparable displacement.

As for power, all roads point to the 2.3 in the Mustang making over 300HP since the same engine is anticipated to make over 320HP in the next Focus RS. Everyone is expecting over 300 from the ecoboost 4 so shouldn't we expect similar #s from GM? More power in a turbo engine doesn't necessarily mean less fuel efficiency in normal driving because when cruising the bypass valve is open and the car is out of boost. Until you get into boost, the tune for a given engine with a 16g and with a 30r will be almost identical despite the second doubling the power output of the first once in boost.
I would be surprised if the base Mustang put out 320hp from a turbo-4. The Focus RS may do it, but Focus RS hardware is not going to be hitting dealer lots at base Mustang price levels. So unless the performance:dollar ratio, the traditional selling point of the Mustang and Camaro for decades, is going to the wayside, I don't see it.

The efficiency problem I see with massive boost is it forces a lower compression ratio. That reduces efficiency. It also forces the use of premium gas, which itself is demanding more or a premium than it used to.

The main argument supporting replacing the V6 with this highly tuned turbo-4s is supposedly to save money by saving gas. But the problem is, they cost a lot more upfront, use about the same fuel, but with a higher per gallon cost, and a much higher potential of expensive repairs down the road, that all taken together, ends up costing the buyer a lot more while not offering a whole lot in return.

Just because something is more complex and expensive to produce does not mean it is better. Anyone can over engineer something with enough resources. Real engineering talent often means finding simpler and more cost effective solutions to problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
Look at the Hyundai Genesis turbo for gods sake, it gets 31mpg highway with a 274hp 2.0l turbo weighing in at 3,500lb and doesn't even utilize DI which would help in both output and efficiency. You don't think by 2015-2016 that Ford and GM will be able to top 300hp with DI turbo engines, probably with larger displacement? DI alone could bump that Hyundai engine to 300hp. HYUNDAI! I think you are underestimating GM and Ford big time.
That Hyundai engine is direct injected, I thought. The N/A engines in most of Hyundai's cars are, why wouldn't the turbo be?

All I have to say about the Hyundai engine is this. First, the mileage number is suspect, given that this is the same company that is now sending gas cars to all of its recent customers for as long as they own their recent purchases after they got caught lying badly about their fuel economy numbers.

Second, that 2.0L turbo Hyundai engine has a record of significantly under-performing its power rating (For example, in a comparison about a year ago, a supposedly 274hp Sonota Turbo managed only a 7.5 0-60 and a quarter in the 15s en route to losing a drag race to a Camry Hybrid).

Third, what is so impressive about a 274hp engine getting a 31 mpg rating in a 3500 lb car? I can get 30 mpg on the interstate with a 412 hp engine in a 3600 lb car...without direct injection.
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