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Old 10-08-2009, 08:47 PM   #15
RickF
 
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On another thread a letter from GM was posted which discusses tuning and warranty, this letter mentioned GM service bulletins 08-06-04-033 and outlines procedures to identify the presence of non-GM aftermarket calibrations.

So, out of curiosity I did a search for the bulletin, unfortunately it didn’t provide as much info as I hoped with respect to vehicle mileage, flash counting, etc... The disturbing aspect of this is that it takes the warranty issue out of the individual dealers hands, even the district service managers hands for that matter. Anyway here it is for those interested;



Quote:
Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-033 is currently available in SI.

Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L, 2.8L, 2.9L, 3.0L, 3.1L, 3.2L, 3.4L,
3.5L, 3.6L, 3.8L, 3.9L, 4.2L, 4.3L, 4.4L, 4.6L, 4.8L, 5.0L, 5.3L, 5.7L, 6.0L, 6.2L, 7.0L, 7.4L, 8.1L
Gas Powered Engines Only

Models: 2006–2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2006–2009 HUMMER H2, H3
Excluding Pontiac Vibe, G8, Chevrolet Aveo, All Saturn and Saab Models

Important: This bulletin applies to Gas Powered Engines ONLY. For Diesel Powered Engines, refer to Service Bulletin #08-06-04-006A.

If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non-GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non-GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than the calibrations which these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components where a non-GM engine calibration has been verified are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN):

1. Go to TIS2WEB
2. Select "Calibration Information (SPS Info)"
3. Enter VIN
4. Select "Get Cal ID"
5. Select "ECM Engine Control Module"
6. Select "Next"
7. Select "Complete History"
8. Print
9. Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2
10. Plug in the Tech 2
11. Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
12. Select "Powertrain"
13. Select "Engine"
14. *Select "Engine Control Module" or "PCM"
15. *Select "Module ID Information" or "I/M Information System" if module ID information selection is not available.
16. *If "I/M information System" was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.
17. Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* Steps may vary by controller.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY CVN's DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

If a non-GM calibration is found to be in the ECM (CVN's on the Tech 2 do not match TIS printout) - In order to document the case — a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the Tech 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture, VIN and reason the vehicle is currently in for service should be emailed to JAY.DANKOVICH@GM.COM and STEVEN.R. BRIDSON@GM.COM for verification. Please copy your GM District Service Manager (DVM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 72 hours.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:08 PM   #16
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
Fantastic. So IF I was to purchase a 2nd ECU and tune it and then swap back my "stock" ECU no one would be the wiser? Or if I wanted to go the cheaper route I could flash my ECU and then flash back to stock for service and no one could figure out I did a tune.

EDIT: Thanks for all the info!!
You are correct on both counts. The cheaper and easier way is just to flash back to stock.

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Originally Posted by 66DeuceLS1 View Post
Kirk - so you are basically saying that if we save our factory tune before flashing a tune, then GM will not be able to detect any tune work after reflashing the factory tune back to original?
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
so where is the oil life monitoring system registered? Because I know it needs the milage to function. So where does it get this info, if not from the ECM?
Oil life is partially monitored in the ECM. If you swap ECMs you have to re-program the remaining oil life into the new one if you want this feature to remain accurate. Re-flashing the calibration does not change the oil life feature. It gets the mileage reading from the IPC (instrument panel cluster).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickF View Post
On another thread a letter from GM was posted which discusses tuning and warranty, this letter mentioned GM service bulletins 08-06-04-033 and outlines procedures to identify the presence of non-GM aftermarket calibrations.

So, out of curiosity I did a search for the bulletin, unfortunately it didnt provide as much info as I hoped with respect to vehicle mileage, flash counting, etc... The disturbing aspect of this is that it takes the warranty issue out of the individual dealers hands, even the district service managers hands for that matter. Anyway here it is for those interested;
With our calibration the CVN numbers do match. Regardless of that point, they most certainly match whan the stock calibration is installed.
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
Oil life is partially monitored in the ECM. If you swap ECM’s you have to re-program the remaining oil life into the new one if you want this feature to remain accurate. Re-flashing the calibration does not change the oil life feature. It gets the mileage reading from the IPC (instrument panel cluster).

the mileage is partially stored in the ECM for the OLMS. if it wasnt, then when you pulled the battery, you would lose your readings for the
OLMS. once again, it comes down to a warranty issue, IE driving OVER the OLMS "change oil" for 5,000 miles then resetting it after a change as if you did it when you were supposed to. While its what we call a "coarse" odometer value (a value used purely for calculations and not as accurate as the "fine" odo display on the IPC) it IS an Odometer none the less that HAS been used in warranty disputes for customer neglect.

the ECM retains the oil life reading (and the coarse odometer) even if you swap it into a vehicle with MORE miles on it. How would this "theory" work since the same ECM is used in the G6 (08+ 3.5L) where the odometer is stored in the BCM not the IPC....
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
the mileage is partially stored in the ECM for the OLMS. if it wasnt, then when you pulled the battery, you would lose your readings for the
OLMS. once again, it comes down to a warranty issue, IE driving OVER the OLMS "change oil" for 5,000 miles then resetting it after a change as if you did it when you were supposed to. While its what we call a "coarse" odometer value (a value used purely for calculations and not as accurate as the "fine" odo display on the IPC) it IS an Odometer none the less that HAS been used in warranty disputes for customer neglect.

the ECM retains the oil life reading (and the coarse odometer) even if you swap it into a vehicle with MORE miles on it. How would this "theory" work since the same ECM is used in the G6 (08+ 3.5L) where the odometer is stored in the BCM not the IPC....
That is why we suggest using our PowerFlash system instead of swapping ECM's. Flashing the ECM will not change the oil life system values.
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
That is why we suggest using our PowerFlash system instead of swapping ECM's. Flashing the ECM will not change the oil life system values.

hmmmm....

but here I thought you guys said that there was no mileage kept in the ECM...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
There is no mileage reading in the ECM either. Actually anything that is not hard coded into the ECM from the factory (or us) is erased when battery power is removed.

you guys need to talk to each other before you go counter-posting each other

speaking of which, have you verified your tune's "stealth" ability yet? its been a little more than the 7-10 days you originally gave us for the time frame.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
hmmmm....

but here I thought you guys said that there was no mileage kept in the ECM...




you guys need to talk to each other before you go counter-posting each other

speaking of which, have you verified your tune's "stealth" ability yet? its been a little more than the 7-10 days you originally gave us for the time frame.
You mean talk to myself? I made both posts. I do not consider the oil life system an actual mileage counter since the owner can zero it at any time, heck you could zero it every day if you wanted.

What people wanted to know is if there was a hard mileage log in the ECM, there is not. The point is mute anyway since all of our Camaro tunes have been PowerFlash tunes, except for the Chevy dealers that own our remote shop cables.

As far as the Stealth feature goes, the CVN numbers always match with our calibration installed. Again, the point is mute since all tunes are PowerFlash tunes.

Of all of the Camaro tunes we have sold, not one of our customers have been even slightly confused or cared about this. It only seems like people with no interest in getting a tune keep bringing it up.

That being said, in the well over 1000 remote tunes we have done we have yet to see a single warranty issue. Over 435 of these are G8 tunes (same ECM).
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post

Of all of the Camaro tunes we have sold, not one of our customers have been even slightly confused or cared about this. It only seems like people with no interest in getting a tune keep bringing it up.
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Old 10-10-2009, 03:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
You mean talk to myself? I made both posts. I do not consider the oil life system an actual mileage counter since the owner can zero it at any time, heck you could zero it every day if you wanted.

What people wanted to know is if there was a hard mileage log in the ECM, there is not. The point is mute anyway since all of our Camaro tunes have been PowerFlash tunes, except for the Chevy dealers that own our remote shop cables.

As far as the Stealth feature goes, the CVN numbers always match with our calibration installed. Again, the point is mute since all tunes are PowerFlash tunes.

Of all of the Camaro tunes we have sold, not one of our customers have been even slightly confused or cared about this. It only seems like people with no interest in getting a tune keep bringing it up.

That being said, in the well over 1000 remote tunes we have done we have yet to see a single warranty issue. Over 435 of these are G8 tunes (same ECM).
the G8 ISNT the same ECM, its the same family, but the Camaro gets one with quite a few new revisions (one being the addition of the third medium speed data bus that the Tech 2 cant be used to read).

Just because you dont consider the OLMS an actual mileage counter does not mean that GM does not as well.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:12 PM   #24
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The Oil Life system does not run off mileage.

It is on page 9-13 of the Manual:

Engine Oil Life System

When to Change Engine Oil

This vehicle has a computer system
that indicates when to change the
engine oil and filter. This is based
on engine revolutions and engine
temperature, and not on mileage.

Based on driving conditions, the
mileage at which an oil change is
indicated can vary considerably.
For the oil life system to work
properly, the system must be reset
every time the oil is changed.

When the system has calculated
that oil life has been diminished,
it indicates that an oil change is
necessary. A CHANGE ENGINE
OIL SOON message comes on.
See Engine Oil Messages on
page 4-32. Change the oil as soon
as possible within the next 1 000 km
(600 miles). It is possible that, if
driving under the best conditions,
the oil life system might not indicate
that an oil change is necessary for
over a year. However, the engine oil
and filter must be changed at least
once a year and at this time the
system must be reset. Your dealer/
retailer has trained service people
who will perform this work using
genuine parts and reset the system.
It is also important to check the oil
regularly and keep it at the proper
level.
If the system is ever reset
accidentally, the oil must be changed
at 5 000 km (3,000 miles) since the
last oil change. Remember to reset
the oil life system whenever the oil is
changed.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:18 PM   #25
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Kirk, I sent you a PM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khislop007 View Post
For the oil life system to work
properly, the system must be reset
every time the oil is changed.
So if the ECM is disconnected or the OLS is reset before the oil change, the system won't be working properly.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
That being said, in the well over 1000 remote tunes we have done we have yet to see a single warranty issue. Over 435 of these are G8 tunes (same ECM).
Kirk - Out of curiosity if someone were to have one of your tunes and the factory declined warranty coverage based on the tune not matching the factory tune would you be willing to cover the cost of repairs?
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
So if the ECM is disconnected or the OLS is reset before the oil change, the system won't be working properly.
I think it is working properly just that it calculates it since the last time it is reset. Not sure what would happen if the ECM was disconnected.

Then they go on to say....If it is accidentally reset...


Quote:
Originally Posted by khislop007 View Post
If the system is ever reset
accidentally, the oil must be changed
at 5 000 km (3,000 miles) since the
last oil change.
Remember to reset
the oil life system whenever the oil is
changed.
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