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Old 10-26-2009, 03:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
not just the milage.

GM keeps a file with the ECM serial number that is on a specific VIN.

So if you take it to a dealer and the car's VIN and ECM s/n don't match, the dealer will know something is up
If that was the case... then keep the factory ECM stock and Mod the spare one. Not Rocket science.
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:49 PM   #19
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If that was the case... then keep the factory ECM stock and Mod the spare one. Not Rocket science.
What everyone fails to think about is what happens with a catastrophic failure? Sure you can slap that old ECM in...but if it isn't reading anything near what could have caused your major failure...then do you think the dealer will buy it? Some items have to have a run cycle to reset...so that ECM that's been on the shelf for 6 months still shows something out of kilter for the situation your car is in.

Even the "swap the ECM" trick isn't 100% foolproof and only seems logical if you are only running a CAI, Catback, and Tune. Anything more and your car is going to run like crap when you "untune it" to take to the dealer.
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:58 PM   #20
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What everyone fails to think about is what happens with a catastrophic failure? Sure you can slap that old ECM in...but if it isn't reading anything near what could have caused your major failure...then do you think the dealer will buy it? Some items have to have a run cycle to reset...so that ECM that's been on the shelf for 6 months still shows something out of kilter for the situation your car is in.

Even the "swap the ECM" trick isn't 100% foolproof and only seems logical if you are only running a CAI, Catback, and Tune. Anything more and your car is going to run like crap when you "untune it" to take to the dealer.
Good point. I think this is only viable when you have a mildly modded car. I.E. long tubes, CAI, full exhaust. The car will run fine without a tune but will have a check engine light or will not have all the performance it could get from the mods.

In addition it would not be very useful for the reasons you stated if you have a major engine failure. Were it could be useful would be for a broken CV joint or a failed output shaft on a trans. Things that GM should not take a tune into consideration for warranty but they are...
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:02 PM   #21
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no one answered about getting the ECM updated... can we just call the dealership and ask for this?
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by GaryTucker View Post
What everyone fails to think about is what happens with a catastrophic failure? Sure you can slap that old ECM in...but if it isn't reading anything near what could have caused your major failure...then do you think the dealer will buy it? Some items have to have a run cycle to reset...so that ECM that's been on the shelf for 6 months still shows something out of kilter for the situation your car is in.
The factory parameters are lost and the monitors are reset to "not ready" when the ECM looses power for any reason. So if you install an unplugged ECM it will definitely not show any believable data. So the thing to do in this instance is to run the car battery down with the flashers and have the car towed in with the battery down and the flashers on, the dealer will be none the wiser.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:40 PM   #23
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If I get a tune and the only thing I have changed is the AFM shut off, it can void my warranty? If so that would really suck and not seem entirely fair.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:44 AM   #24
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If I get a tune and the only thing I have changed is the AFM shut off, it can void my warranty? If so that would really suck and not seem entirely fair.
From what GM is stating "any" non-stock tune on the ECM voids to power train warranty. You could tune the motor to have a more conservative tune and it would still void the warranty. Right now I don't even look my ECM in the eye... don't want to make GM angry.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:52 PM   #25
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If I get a tune and the only thing I have changed is the AFM shut off, it can void my warranty? If so that would really suck and not seem entirely fair.
Why isn't it fair? Why should GM warranty your modified item or anything it is affecting? GM has every right to refuse to warranty modified items as they have no control over the quality of the modification or the additional stress it may cause.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:35 PM   #26
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lol...well then maybe GM should offer us L99 guys an option to tune out afm. and they cannot tell me that that would hurt the car via a GM tune...problem solved. never going to happen but it would be nice.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:12 AM   #27
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You guys have to remember one thing. SEMA got a law passed that says that the car manufacturer cannot void a warranty just because you installed aftermarket parts. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the aftermarkt part caused the failure. It's the law. Contact SEMA for more details if you have a problem with warranty coverage.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:30 AM   #28
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You guys have to remember one thing. SEMA got a law passed that says that the car manufacturer cannot void a warranty just because you installed aftermarket parts. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the aftermarkt part caused the failure. It's the law. Contact SEMA for more details if you have a problem with warranty coverage.
Changing the way the car deals with the intake air is most definitely not considered a aftermarket part. It's modifying the existing ECU which can get your entire drivetrain warranty denied. CAI's exhaust, and possibly intake manny would be ok, but once you break into the engine, you can almost certainly throw your DRIVETRAIN warranty out the window. I'm sure they'll still cover your interior and other non drivetrain parts though.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:57 PM   #29
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You guys have to remember one thing. SEMA got a law passed that says that the car manufacturer cannot void a warranty just because you installed aftermarket parts. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the aftermarkt part caused the failure. It's the law. Contact SEMA for more details if you have a problem with warranty coverage.
Id like to hear some more about this, any online info on it??
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:05 PM   #30
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Id like to hear some more about this, any online info on it??
Moss-Magnuson warranty act.

The problem is it turns into a "he said, she said." If you change the ECM software, chances are your powertrain warranty will be void if they find out about it. They can easily claim that changing the operating parameters of the engine could have unknown undesired effects that could filter down throughout the whole powertrain.

To be honest, they could even do this for stuff like a CAI and headers because the net result is increased HP/torque which would increase the stress on the various drivetrain components. I think, in general, they don't do this but in theory they could.

Basically, if you mod you're risking your powertrain warranty. They may still honor it but all bets are off. The more you do, the more at risk you are.

Now if your radio dies 2yrs from now, they have to honor that no matter what you do to your engine.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:47 PM   #31
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The problem is it turns into a "he said, she said."
Not really. The guarantor of the warranty has the burden to prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.

Some information on Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

It's a long read, but there are answers in there. There is one key part that you MUST know as a consumer and that is that ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty.

The Act does not require that manufacturers or sellers of consumer products provide written warranties. Instead, the act requires that manufacturers and sellers who do warrant their products to clearly disclose the terms of the warranty so that the consumer understands his or her rights under the warranty. I read that to mean that If you can read, and you have read your warranty and you can't clearly see that your warranty would be voided by making the proposed change, then it cannot be voided by the warrantor. Unless, of course, they can prove that the aftermarket installation caused the failure.

The SEMA Action Network has some great information/tips for you if you have been denied warranty service.

Also from the SEMA Action Network:
"The main point of interest here is that the Act says warranty coverage may not be conditioned upon the use of only the vehicle manufacturer's parts unless the parts are provided free of charge. In other words, use of a non-carmaker product should not void your warranty unless it caused the problem."

I have also read that the law extends to access to OBD.
"Vehicle manufacturers must install systems to alert drivers when an emissions control system is malfunctioning. The electronic systems, called “on-board diagnostics” (OBD), are used to monitor the emissions control system along with a number of other vehicle functions. The law requires that the aftermarket have access to OBD service information in order to repair and service a vehicle, as well as manufacture replacement and specialty aftermarket performance equipment."

I don't know for sure, but I would think by reading that you could argue that electronic information can be considered "performance equipment". I think, again, the warranty writer would have the burden of proving that a change to the electronics is what caused the failure.

Last edited by Apex Paul; 11-16-2009 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:14 AM   #32
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I ordered my 2ss A6 with a dealer option LS7 crate engine. Turns out dealer couldn't get the tune for the engine from Chevrolet. Customer service refered problem to GM and they told dealer to have a private tune done on PCM and it would not void warranty.

64 and still having fun
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:38 PM   #33
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I ordered my 2ss A6 with a dealer option LS7 crate engine. Turns out dealer couldn't get the tune for the engine from Chevrolet. Customer service refered problem to GM and they told dealer to have a private tune done on PCM and it would not void warranty.

64 and still having fun
Fred,

1.) You are a mad man...LS7, NICE!

2.) Get it in writing, if at all possible. I wouldn't trust a dealer or corporation any further than I could throw 'em, if they were not willing to put it to paper.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:32 PM   #34
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Do you have any more ECM's for sale?
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