I just had to.................................

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Yes and no...

I want the LSA (or LS9- but yeah; right) because they come OEM with boost; it won't take much to crank out a lot more power; they come with internals to cope with the boost; warranty; it won't be difficult to get past the smart smog referees that my crappy State emposes on it's population;and there are probably a few more that I can't really think of right now BUT... If Z28 came in with a base closer to the base of an SRT8, with all the handling accoutrements, then H3LL YEAH I'd take it. I know a DI 6.2 would have more potential than an LS3 by vitue of the injectors, hence FI would be even more effective; I just don't think it'll be ready, or that they'll go that way right off. It would make just as much sense for them to go that way, as much as an LSA in a few years, but the LSA is ready-to-go and completely developed now, so why not spread it over another car in addition to the CTS-V?

Good point

there will be a different airbox and tubing and more then likely a different exhaust that has to be used. when you take into account those two we will also need a different tune. with that the hp could go either way on the camaro. could be for better or worse. as the prices I posted earlier I'd rather have a $12-14k engine over the 20k lsa. and it putting down the same numbers, or close, NA. that way I could add boost later on and put down higher numbers later on. plus 2 it's less weight I have to deal with.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by radz282003

BUT... this is assuming Z28 will compete directly with the 500. I think it should - and everyone knows what I think that means. But... if GM were to strickly want Z28 to compete around a track with turns, then a modest power bump and a upgraded suspension (?ZR1-style?) with some PS2 tires and I think that would compete very well with 500. Straight line? Not so much, but that's not the entire story. I think GM can do both, and that's all I'll say about that.



YES!!! We get an LSA then?

Why wouldn't a higher tier Camaro not compete with the GT500? The V6 competes with the V6, the SS competes with the GT, which leaves a higher tier model (in the case the Z/28) to compete against the GT500.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

the SS competes with the GT, which leaves a higher tier model (in the case the Z/28) to compete against the GT500.

But why does the Z/28 have to compete with the GT500? Why cant the Z/28 be a good track car with better handling to compete with next years new Mustake GT and have another model to compete with the GT500. Just a idea.....

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

But why does the Z/28 have to compete with the GT500? Why cant the Z/28 be a good track car with better handling to compete with next years new Mustake GT and have another model to compete with the GT500. Just a idea.....

I agree. The Camaro always had the Mustang as its competition. The Shelby Mustang always went after the Vette.

Camaro=Mustang Competition
Vette=Shelby Mustang Competition

[Dragoneye]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

you can assume what you want about the performance and engine they want. like I said the DI engines cost wouldn't be much more then a current ls3 but def less then the lsa. you would take the LSA over a cheaper engine pushing about the same hp and has even more potential then the lsa. . .?

+1. The new line of DI V8s will be engineered for "low" cost, in order to be placed in all their trucks, and the Camaro/Corvette/miscellaneous performance cars that need V8s. This is not a debatable fact.

The DI V6 costs only minutely more than the port-injected V6s....if you wanted to use that as a yardstick.

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

But why does the Z/28 have to compete with the GT500? Why cant the Z/28 be a good track car with better handling to compete with next years new Mustake GT and have another model to compete with the GT500. Just a idea.....

Because they're running out of models.....
GM is going to have to (or has already done so) make a decision on whether they want to let the Corvette continue to take on the GT500, or let the Camaro take over....realistically? They'll let Camaro take over...but I suspect you'll get your good handling car, anyways. "Constant Improvement".

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Because they're running out of models.....
GM is going to have to (or has already done so) make a decision on whether they want to let the Corvette continue to take on the GT500, or let the Camaro take over....realistically? They'll let Camaro take over...but I suspect you'll get your good handling car, anyways. "Constant Improvement".

Well I hope my good handling car has a DI V8 in it.......Hey.... I can wish...

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Well I hope my good handling car has a DI V8 in it.......Hey.... I can wish...

Amen!

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

But why does the Z/28 have to compete with the GT500? Why cant the Z/28 be a good track car with better handling to compete with next years new Mustake GT and have another model to compete with the GT500. Just a idea.....

You would rather have a car with a slight power boost and a better suspension?I'd rather have the car with a high HP increase, better suspension, and other things. It's not like putting an LSA in there is automatically going to make the car blow around corners. It will get your wanted handling performance, as well as the power to compete in the 1/4.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by a_Username

You would rather have a car with a slight power boost and a better suspension?I'd rather have the car with a high HP increase, better suspension, and other things. It's not like putting an LSA in there is automatically going to make the car blow around corners. It will get your wanted handling performance, as well as the power to compete in the 1/4.

the more stuff the more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

the more stuff the more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$

Obviously. But again, it's not like they are going to take an SS and just drop a LSA and call it a day. They will add other things in order to put that power to the ground. I still think we are looking at mid $40 to mid $50 car. I say it will be $49,000... just a couple grand more over a base GT500.

[Revo1]

LSA, $39,000. SOLD, to the man in the Red '02

[radz282003]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Why wouldn't a higher tier Camaro not compete with the GT500? The V6 competes with the V6, the SS competes with the GT, which leaves a higher tier model (in the case the Z/28) to compete against the GT500.

I think it should; I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. That's the only model left that there is no opponent for, from GM. If GM's going after GT500 - they better be packing some stones

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

But why does the Z/28 have to compete with the GT500? Why cant the Z/28 be a good track car with better handling to compete with next years new Mustake GT and have another model to compete with the GT500. Just a idea.....

SS already competes with the GT. There's almost no competition if that GT has their Track Pack. Sure, it's slower in a straight line, but it's not only about straight line performance. I bet, around a track, it's going to be darned close, at least until GM can tune the suspesion better. I'm sure they're a little embarrassed that their IRS Camaro is getting it's you-know-what handed to it by a SRS Mustang At least the aftermarket is there for us

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I agree. The Camaro always had the Mustang as its competition. The Shelby Mustang always went after the Vette.

Camaro=Mustang Competition
Vette=Shelby Mustang Competition

??? How is the Shelby competition for the 'Vette? In what reviews has it been even close? Sure - in a straight line, but even then, comparing a 540 horse', 4000 lb. philly to a 3300 lb. 436 horse' 'Vette with Z51 suspension (let alone the GS package now...) is not even fair. Come on. What the heck kinda' rational is this. The last car Ford had that gave Corvette any competition was the GT - that car was bad@$$! Any comparison with the 'Vette to a Philly is just plain silly, IMO; not even...

Originally Posted by a_Username

You would rather have a car with a slight power boost and a better suspension?I'd rather have the car with a high HP increase, better suspension, and other things. It's not like putting an LSA in there is automatically going to make the car blow around corners. It will get your wanted handling performance, as well as the power to compete in the 1/4.

:dri nking:

Originally Posted by Revo1

LSA, $39,000. SOLD, to the man in the Red '02

+2

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Obviously. But again, it's not like they are going to take an SS and just drop a LSA and call it a day. They will add other things in order to put that power to the ground. I still think we are looking at mid $40 to mid $50 car. I say it will be $49,000... just a couple grand more over a base GT500.

49k is going to be pushing it. id say entry level would be closer to 38-42k or so

[radz282003]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

49k is going to be pushing it. id say entry level would be closer to 38-42k or so

Whew! I'm hoping $49K with every option. Just give me leather, ABL, HUD, and dual-zone AC and I'll be one happy camper Oh - might as well get the magneto' shocks

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

49k is going to be pushing it. id say entry level would be closer to 38-42k or so

I wouldn't be surprised it it reached that high. I mean, a GT500 is $47,000 with all those mechanical and electronic upgrades from the GT. Plus GM has most of the time been a couple of grand higher than it's competition. I don't really know how they would only raise the price 5K from a 2SS (33K to 38K)... the LSA alone definitely cost more than $5,000 to produce, plus all the other mechanical upgrades that should be included. I believe we are looking at a mid $40K to low $50K vehicle.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

You would rather have a car with a slight power boost and a better suspension?I'd rather have the car with a high HP increase, better suspension, and other things. It's not like putting an LSA in there is automatically going to make the car blow around corners. It will get your wanted handling performance, as well as the power to compete in the 1/4.

1-Yep

2- Im a road course guy.... Never been down the 1320

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Yep and Im a road course guy....

Then tell GM to make a track pack. I wouldn't want to have a track pack equipped SS to be badged a Z/28. This Z/28 should be a whole new package and get a complete overhaul... not just a suspension overhaul. You didn't see Ford renaming their GT equipped track pack at GT400 or something.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Then tell GM to make a track pack. I wouldn't want to have a track pack equipped SS to be badged a Z/28. This Z/28 should be a whole new package and get a complete overhaul... not just a suspension overhaul. You didn't see Ford renaming their GT equipped track pack at GT400 or something.

Did I say I wanted just a tuned suspension?

You asked if I wanted a power bump also.... I said yes....

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Did I say I wanted just a tuned suspension?

Oh and yeah and the slight power bump.

And I'd like to say that in order to compete on the road course against a GT500, it's going to have to have more than a slight power bump. I would guarantee that the GT500 would still take a Z/28 like you described on a road course, even with a better suspension, due to the GT500's very high acceleration advantage. (Given this slight power bump would be similar to the 450HP DI V8 some people seem to want...). There is no way around it, in order to compete with the GT500 in any type of MotorSport, it's going to have to have an engine capable of Producing 520+HP in a cost effective way.

[radz282003]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Then tell GM to make a track pack. I wouldn't want to have a track pack equipped SS to be badged a Z/28. This Z/28 should be a whole new package and get a complete overhaul... not just a suspension overhaul. You didn't see Ford renaming their GT equipped track pack at GT400 or something.

Hmm... good point. I don't think I've articulated that point as well as you have I completely agree with this statement

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Oh and yeah and the slight power bump.

I didnt notice the slight part in your original question... my bad. Even if I did notice it every body has a different definition of what Slight is. If you want a definitive answer ask a definitive question.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I would guarantee that the GT500 would still take a Z/28 like you described on a road course, even with a better suspension, due to the GT500's very high acceleration advantage. (Given this slight power bump would be similar to the 450HP DI V8 some people seem to want...). There is no way around it, in order to compete with the GT500 in any type of MotorSport, it's going to have to have an engine capable of Producing 520+HP in a cost effective way.

Did you know that the GT500 has serious problems putting the power down coming out of a corner? It comes out of the corner loaded to one side and 1 wheel burns.... that is not effective nor fast. Obviously I cant gurarantee like you can somehow... But I would be willing to bet a 450-475 Hp Camaro with a tuned suspension that puts down the power effectively and other GM changes would give the GT500 a run for its money

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Did you know that the GT500 has serious problems putting the power down coming out of a corner? It comes out of the corner loaded to one side and 1 wheel burns.... that is not effective nor fast. Obviously I cant gurarantee like you can somehow... But I would be willing to bet a 450-475 Hp Camaro with a tuned suspension and other mods would give the GT500 a run for its money

It might give it a run for it's money, but it'd would still pull ahead due acceleration difference. And I am willing to bet you are exaggerating on the one wheel burns, unless you prove me otherwise. You are talking about an almost 100 horsepower difference, similar to how an SS would take a GT equipped track pack around a road course (the horsepower is around a 100 HP difference between these two vehicles as well). On the straight segments, the GT500 would considerably ahead of the Z/28 (note the Z/28 you have described). Obviously the Z/28 would be able to take corners faster than the GT500, thus catching up until another straight segment where the GT500 would pull ahead yet again.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by a_Username

It might give it a run for it's money, but it'd would still pull ahead due acceleration difference. And I am willing to bet you are exaggerating on the one wheel burns, unless you prove me otherwise. You are talking about an almost 100 horsepower difference, similar to how an SS would take a GT equipped track pack around a road course (the horsepower is around a 100 HP difference between these two vehicles as well). On the straight segments, the GT500 would considerably ahead of the Z/28 (note the Z/28 you have described). Obviously the Z/28 would be able to take corners faster than the GT500, thus catching up until another straight segment where the GT500 would pull ahead yet again.

In this statement you just made you are forgetting one very very important part of road racing.... EXIT speed. We could go back and forth with this all night. We have different views on what makes a car fast and I will leave it at that

And if your interested in my "Exaggerated 1 wheel burn issue" pick up some reviews of the GT500 on a road course

[boxmonkeyracing]

hitting the apex at the right speed with a high exit speed is important.