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Old 11-13-2009, 02:26 PM   #76
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Final results?
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:09 PM   #77
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Yes it was a great day hanging with Pete and Paul all day and cant wait till next year.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:09 PM   #78
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Yep...


Somehow I missed that interior option.... Can I back order that???
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:40 PM   #79
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Congrats Pedders, I can't afford the whole system, just the sport package but seeing stuff like this makes writing that check easier everyday. "Just as good for less," don't tell me show me.

I am so glad I found this forum.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:51 PM   #80
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Great showing Pedders!
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:59 PM   #81
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Final results?
We were the 4th fastest:

1. was a AC Cobra @1:46.3
2. 2nd and 3rd were some old school Camaros, 1:47.3 and 1:49.4
3. Then there was Pedders

I think the next 2010 Camaro was apprx 6 seconds slower

We were at 1:50.2


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Old 11-13-2009, 08:26 PM   #82
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I'd like to see that ZR1 running a 1:41 or was that a tall tale.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:31 PM   #83
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We were the 4th fastest:

1. was a AC Cobra @1:46.3
2. 2nd and 3rd were some old school Camaros, 1:47.3 and 1:49.4
3. Then there was Pedders

I think the next 2010 Camaro was apprx 6 seconds slower

We were at 1:50.2


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was the other 2010 running a blower or stock LS3?
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:39 PM   #84
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was the other 2010 running a blower or stock LS3?
The next fastest was not blown. But I think several other suspension companies were and their performance was not steller

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Old 11-16-2009, 03:55 PM   #85
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Awesome video!!! Congrats on the great results!

We'll be attending next years Optima Challenge with our 2009 Cobalt SS. I think we'll be going with the Pedders Coil Overs for that application!

Kind regards,
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #86
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Awesome video!!! Congrats on the great results!

We'll be attending next years Optima Challenge with our 2009 Cobalt SS. I think we'll be going with the Pedders Coil Overs for that application!

Kind regards,
Did you get my email?

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Old 11-16-2009, 07:49 PM   #87
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There were five 2010 Camaros. I did not look under the hoods as I had my own business to keep me busy track side. One company posted pictures of their car with a blower on this forum. That said, this is not a RWHP track. We didn't need more RWHP to be faster we needed track tires to use the power we had and build momentum turn to turn. The track rewards light cars with excellent suspension and tires.

Now when you have a super light car, huge wheels and tires and over 900 RWHP the track gets destroyed as was clear with the 66 Cobra. That car had it all. Bad Penny isn't far behind at ONLY 3,200 pounds. We came in lean and mean at TWO TONS :-(
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:44 PM   #88
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Now when you have a super light car, huge wheels and tires and over 900 RWHP the track gets destroyed as was clear with the 66 Cobra. That car had it all. Bad Penny isn't far behind at ONLY 3,200 pounds. We came in lean and mean at TWO TONS :-(
The Cobra weighed in at about 2500 pounds and had 600 rwhp.. do the math on that one.. lol.. it really shouldn't have been in the event as it's not a street car. Heck, it was open header.

Pennys weighs 3,300 with no driver and makes 488 rwhp.

We had a slight trans error and Dave couldn't get a good feel for the R6 tires, said he wished we would have ran the R888s since they gave much better driver feedback. Hey, live and learn.

They were certainly good in the other events given how we finished.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:58 PM   #89
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The Cobra weighed in at about 2500 pounds and had 600 rwhp.. do the math on that one.. lol.. it really shouldn't have been in the event as it's not a street car. Heck, it was open header.

Pennys weighs 3,300 with no driver and makes 488 rwhp.

We had a slight trans error and Dave couldn't get a good feel for the R6 tires, said he wished we would have ran the R888s since they gave much better driver feedback. Hey, live and learn.

They were certainly good in the other events given how we finished.
OK, so we were ONLY 700 pounds heavier.

Bruce (Cobra owner) told me the dyno ran out at about 5,000 RPM and the HP showing 750. He also told me the red line was north of 7K. I was thinking he was at a minimum 950 RWHP. His 0 to 60 back to 0 is in the range of a decade old F 1 car and not that far off a current one. Regardless, his Cobra was absolutely sick.

Your car was dialed in, impressive in all events including style. It is a really a well done STREET car.

We just disqualified Bruce. So you can have 1st and I'll take second.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:09 PM   #90
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The next fastest was not blown. But I think several other suspension companies were and their performance was not steller

mike
dms
Really?

What other companies had pro drivers in thier cars? (serious question, did some of the other 2010's have "shoes" behind the wheel?)

I know in our case this was the first time Nick had ever driven this track and he got basicaly one warm up lap to learn it.

Not saying your car isn't faster, but we're still on the stock struts. There's just over $900 in our suspension. BTW, what tires were you on? Just curious.

To me it's an apples and oranges comparison.. There's a reason only one 2010 was in the actual competition and the rest were in exhibition.

Paul did your 2010 proud.. regardless of how other cars did.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:12 PM   #91
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OK, so we were ONLY 700 pounds heavier.

Bruce (Cobra owner) told me the dyno ran out at about 5,000 RPM and the HP showing 750. He also told me the red line was north of 7K. I was thinking he was at a minimum 950 RWHP. His 0 to 60 back to 0 is in the range of a decade old F 1 car and not that far off a current one. Regardless, his Cobra was absolutely sick.

Your car was dialed in, impressive in all events including style. It is a really a well done STREET car.

We just disqualified Bruce. So you can have 1st and I'll take second.
He told me 600 rwhp.. on race gas.. the car was nuts.. it was super cool.. it was badass.. but it wasn't a "street car".

Thanks on Penny.. Dave didn't like the "feel" of the A6 Hoosiers on the track. He said they didn't give any feedback so he feels that's why he didn't push it harder. We were 10mph faster in the straights compared to last year yet didn't have faster times. I think he wishes we would have ran the R888s (great tire BTW).

But the A6s did help in the other events. It's a tradeoff I guess.

I hope that next year they specify a REAL street tires.. makes more sense for this type of event.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:17 PM   #92
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He told me 600 rwhp.. on race gas.. the car was nuts.. it was super cool.. it was badass.. but it wasn't a "street car".

Thanks on Penny.. Dave didn't like the "feel" of the A6 Hoosiers on the track. He said they didn't give any feedback so he feels that's why he didn't push it harder. We were 10mph faster in the straights compared to last year yet didn't have faster times. I think he wishes we would have ran the R888s (great tire BTW).

But the A6s did help in the other events. It's a tradeoff I guess.

I hope that next year they specify a REAL street tires.. makes more sense for this type of event.
We ran Bridgestone RE-11s. They are real street tires. We have just over 5K on them in both track and street driving.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:34 PM   #93
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Really?

What other companies had pro drivers in their cars? (serious question, did some of the other 2010's have "shoes" behind the wheel?)

I know in our case this was the first time Nick had ever driven this track and he got basically one warm up lap to learn it.

Not saying your car isn't faster, but we're still on the stock struts. There's just over $900 in our suspension. BTW, what tires were you on? Just curious.

To me it's an apples and oranges comparison.. There's a reason only one 2010 was in the actual competition and the rest were in exhibition.

Paul did your 2010 proud.. regardless of how other cars did.
Tanner Faust was running a Mustang. Others hold competition licenses. I spoke with one driver about to head out on the road course to compliment him on a great looking car. I asked him what he had under the hood. he told me he didn't know. He it was his first time in the car and I should ask the owner. That doesn't matter. I know my limits and my Camaro now exceeds my ability to drive it at anything near the capabilities of the car. Chris Brannon is an awesome driver, but Paul gets more out the car. We came to run in exhibition class and put on the best exhibition possible. We plan to run again next year. If everyone is on street tires I think we can compete for the fastest road course time and bragging rights.

There are some that take great pride in building and driving in events like this. I tip my hat to them. They are better drivers than I am. They are the ones that should compete for the title.

We brought a member of our TEAM who is a very high profile driver. We also brought the best car we are capable of building. That is exactly what an exhibition car should be -- the best parts with the best drivers.

That said, we have run back to back tests at the Autobahn, same car, same driver same day changing only to Pedders xa coilovers and radius bush snubbers. The difference was three full seconds. On a separate track we were 7 seconds faster than a stock Camaro with the same driver. At the Optima event we were 6 seconds faster that the next fastest 2010. It all tracks consistently.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:10 PM   #94
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was the other 2010 running a blower or stock LS3?
Nope, stock engine cars...

I Agree with Steve here, just seems like a PR competition more so then anything resembling a performance test or race, I mean racing a 550 wheel car versus a 350 wheel car, is FAR from apples to apples. Neat challenge none the less I sapose.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:30 PM   #95
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Nope, stock engine cars...

I Agree with Steve here, just seems like a PR competition more so then anything resembling a performance test or race, I mean racing a 550 wheel car versus a 350 wheel car, is FAR from apples to apples. Neat challenge none the less I sapose.
Pedders has built a Camaro to use for R & D that is more capable than an OEM car. The reason is simple. Many of our customers will push their cars well beyond the OEM RWHP, brake and tire limits. If our R & D car is not as capable as a customer car then we would be in no position to advise them or offer products to them. We use professional drivers because we put our egos in on back pocket and press on to develop the finest after market suspension components for our customers. Bottom line, if they are good enough to make Paul Tracy and Chris Brannon smile our retail customers will be thrilled.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:40 PM   #96
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A lot of people are cranking up the power in their street Camaros to the 450-550 range so I think it's perfectly valid and sensible to match your development car to what so many of your potential customers have. Racing has always been the test bed development arena for the high performance features that have trickled down to the street level.

Pedder's "gets it" and is doing it right and the results show. Power is useless if you can't control it and Pedder's is demonstrating to the "power" customer that their packages gives them the kind of control that gets the job done. Using Paul Tracy to demonstrate that shows it's pro-quality stuff not something that a pro would never buy.

Of course there's "PR" to it; that's what sponsor stickers all over a car, the track, the walls etc. are all about. I've got a Pedder's package ordered, just waiting for the parts to get in so I can get it installed on my car. Great job Pete and all who participated!
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:09 PM   #97
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Mike,

Does Peddlers make a basic setup for the 2010 Camaro? Will just changing the front and rear sway bars add more stability and control some of the understeer? If you could recomend one thing to upgrade the new Camaro suspension, what would it be? Car is away for the winter and would like to do some sort of upgrade before spring.

Thanks!

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Old 11-19-2009, 08:54 PM   #98
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Cool event! Great job to everyone that attended! I can't help but enjoy the old school cars with modern suspension pieces under them. Very nice!
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:57 PM   #99
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Mike,

Does Peddlers make a basic setup for the 2010 Camaro? Will just changing the front and rear sway bars add more stability and control some of the understeer? If you could recomend one thing to upgrade the new Camaro suspension, what would it be? Car is away for the winter and would like to do some sort of upgrade before spring.

Thanks!
There are 3 basic issues with the Camaro:
1. excess body role
2. Excess understeer when pushed really hard
3. Excess movement of suspension components

Body role is a function of height of the vehicle, low coil rates, and sway bars not strong enough.

Excess understeer is related to the above concerns, plus short wheel base, and geometry issues

Excess movement in the suspension is totally related to excess bushing movement or lack of structural support by the primary bushings: front radius rod, rear subframe, and rear diff mount bushings.

So depending on the total overall upgrades, that you want to do, will depend on how much improvement you actually want. To assist you with this process, I would be glad to chat with you to help you.

Now to your original question: Will our Solution B sway bar package add more stability, reduce body role, and improve understeer.

The answer is definately yes. It will make a major change. Our Pedders bars front bar is 90% stronger than OE and 133% stronger than OE rear.

I made a significant post about sway bar analysis that you should read. There is a serious amount of data there.

Here is a small bit of it which compares some of the units that are out there:

CENTER][/CENTER]


There is a lot of data here! Strength measured is a function of polar inertia. To make selections of bars requires looking at ratio, strength, and adjustability. For example,

1. Competitor A offers a VERY low ratio, considering they are replacing 2 sway bars, compared to Pedders Solution B ratio of 1.000 and a 90%/133% increase, compared to their 106% / 20% improvement. No end links are included with their kit

2. Competitor B is a good ratio, but offers much lower strength gains than the Pedders Solution B Package. No endlinks are included with their kit.

3. Competitor C offers a too high of a ratio, and too low of an increase in the front. This will reduce understeer , but will offer insufficient improvements in body roll. No endlinks are included with their kit

4. Competitor D offers a 2 sway bar kit with very good control in body role, but will increase understeer as compared to OE and Pedders Solution B. No endlinks are included with their kit. The Competitor D has a low ratio of .553 while the Pedders Solution B has an improved ratio of 1.00. The Pedders % improvement is 90%/133%, while the Competitor D offers a 111%/44%. Pedders again offers a better all around balance

5. Competitor E was found at SEMA but had their bars on their Camaro, but has not listed the Camaro yet on their website. They have the same size bars as Competitor B, but has the advantage of having a 2 way adjustable front bar compared to Competitor B. As in Competitor B, the balance is better than OE, but the front and rear strengths are seriously lower than Pedders Solution B at 53/87% increase over OE compared to Pedders 90/133% increase over OE



We feel the Pedders Solution B package is the best balanced bar on the market. The ratios of rear bias are up conservatively to reduce the understeer function, but rates of strength are up substantially to reduce body role, which is more demonstrative than understeer. So unlike many of the aftermarket bars out there, our Solution B bat attacks both body role and understeer. then do a understeer reducing specific alignment will complement the sway bars quite nicely.

Hope this helps.

mike
dms

Last edited by Info@PeddersUSA.com; 11-19-2009 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #100
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Mike,

Does Peddlers make a basic setup for the 2010 Camaro? Will just changing the front and rear sway bars add more stability and control some of the understeer? If you could recommend one thing to upgrade the new Camaro suspension, what would it be? Car is away for the winter and would like to do some sort of upgrade before spring.

Thanks!
Mike took the long road

Radius Bush Snubbers
Sub-Frame Inserts (Not In Stock) Sub-Frame Bushes
Sway Bar Solution B Three Weeks out.

Sway bars are the FINAL tuning element to add to a vehicle. The glaring weaknesses are the radius and sub-frame bushes. These are the foundational components (sub-frame and radius bushes) that should be the first mod for every Camaro owner. These bushes followed by Solution B Sway bars would be a stellar setup.

One mod for this winter and only one mod???

I'll cheat and call it a Foundational Bush Kit and make the snubbers and sub-frame bushes one item. They should be because they are the two weakest links in the OEM suspension.


Hey Mike,

Is there a Foundational Bush Kit for the Camaro in our catalog?
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