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Old 11-20-2009, 12:52 PM   #1
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Camaro beats Vette on a Road Course

The Corvette is the KING of Muscle Cars and an American Icon. It is the benchmark of performance at every level of trim. The base Vette is more car than most are capable of driving. The Z06 stellar. The ZR1 is the best production performance coupe on the planet. When GM announced it was going to build a 5th Gen Camaro based on the Global Rear Wheel Drive ZETA architecture Pedders went to work on two continents designing our suspension bits to beat a Corvette around a road course.

We took years to do this and it really started with the Pedders USA wide-body GTO, progressed through the G8 and culminated with the 5th Gen Camaro. Working with and knowing the chassis in all the evolutionary forms going back to Opel have been a huge advantage to Pedders in developing the 5th Gen suspension.

For years I have been telling people that the almost three decade old VZ chassis is capable of running with a Vette when Pedderised. The development of the Xa coilovers made it absolutely a true statement. Using an OEM engineering approach to develop a complete solution from foundational bushes to dampers, coils, endlinks and sway bars a Pedders suspension works by tuning each component to compliment the other. A Pedderised GTO does run with the big dog.



Many companies talk about their suspension products and how they perform. Pedders takes their fleet cars out to the track and proves it with our customers, on video and with hard data. Don't be fooled by cheap copies of Pedders technology. There is only one best suspension for a GTO and that suspension is PEDDERS.

The next step was to take everything we learned with the GTO and use it as the starting point for the G8. We knew that everything we learned on the G8 would transfer almost directly to the 5th Gen Camaro. One of the weakest links in the GTO and the G8 is the design of the front strut mount. The strut requires a certain amount of articulation, yet the mount as designed is susceptible to damage from impact and rapid wear. While Pedders experimented with both urethane and rubber solutions, most other companies focused on just urethane. In this application a steel and dense rubber bush turned out to be vastly superior in Pedders testing. The stability offered by a Pedders 5851 is superior to every other solution on the market. Armed with the Pedders 5851, urethane radius bushes, Xa coilovers and the advanced ZETA virtual pivot from suspension the G8 had a far more capable front suspension that the GTO.

The ZETA IRS appears to have been designed by a checklist. A TEAM of engineers walked through the GTO IRS. They made a list of every weak link and handed it to the ZETA TEAM. The ZETA TEAM then incorporated every item and added some of their own ideas to build perhaps the most capable IRS of any vehicle in this class. Pedderised it is nothing short of one of the finest sedans on the road today at virtually any price. It is GM at their best.

The benchmark has been set for the GTO and G8. If a company claims they make a better suspension tell them to bring it to Gingerman and prove it. We will be more than happy to meet them there. I don't want to hear any well bring your car here or bring it there. Pedders set the benchmark at Gingerman. Any challengers will come come to Michigan where American Muscle is built to prove they are better.

With the fastest best handling GTO and G8s street machines in the world running flawlessly Pedders was ready for our most important build -- the 5th Gen Camaro. GM did their home work on this car. The smallest details were addressed. The front radius arm was made more linear. The ball joint studs and joints heavier. Better brakes. Dramatically improved strut mount. Improved rear IRS sub-frame bushes. GM built the class leading American Muscle Car. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't Pedderised. Pedderised, ProCharged shod with 19 x 10.5 Forgeline wheels and Bridgestone RE-11 tires the Camaros is thisclose to perfect.



And if that wasn't impressive enough we took our Camaro to the Optima Challenge with Paul Tracy behind the wheel. In the hands of one the best drivers in the world our Camaro performed as we expected -- flawlessly. We asked Paul what we should change to make the car better and his list was short: Bigger Brakes and Race Slicks. Do we need to adjust the setup. "The car is good."



Fast, smooth composed and sounding as good as it looks the Pedders Camaro is a lethal machine. But can it beat a Corvette around a highly technical race track that favors light weight, large sticky tires and big brakes over RWHP? OH YEAH!!!!





















The data is impressive. A 2004 GTO runs withing a half second of a 2009 Corvette. A four door sedan is just off the pace of a Corvette. And the Pedderised Camaro is faster than the Corvette. Yes a Camaro can beat a Vette around the track. You can build a camaro like this Vette beater for the same cot as a base model Vette. Bolt on a ProCharger, American Racing Headers, QTP Cut Outs, Forgeline Wheels, Bridgestone RE-11 tires, Cobalt Friction Brakes and a Pedders Justice Pete Suspension. You now have a Z06 with four seats!

While the doubters will find fault with the data or vehicle selection, the fact is that even a Z06 would be running dead heats with the Pedders Camaro. Those who know Corvettes and Gingerman tell us that a Z06 is three to four seconds faster than a stock Vette at Gingerman. Which puts the Pedders Camaro and a Z06 in a dead heat. We are not interested in splitting hairs. The data and Chris Brannon will speak for us. Chris Brannon in his own words discusses what it is like to pilot these great cars in stock and Pedderised trim.



You should know we are not done with the Camaro range. Today we released the EP1201HD. This is a Delryn like set of sub-frame bushes, but unlike Delryn long lasting so it is well suited to the street. How long lasting -- they will last longer than most will own their 2010 Camaro. There are more Camaro products in development that will take the Camaro even further in terms of performance. We are not done with the Camaro, we are not done with the GTO, we are not done with the G8, the Mustang, the Challenger, Charger....

For years Pedders has been proud to have one of the most loyal groups of customers supporting our company. They are as passionate about Pedders as we are and in some cases more so. We cannot thank them enough. While they appreciate our thanks, what they really want is the best suspension product, backed by the best warranty and supported by the best Dealer Network in the industry. They deserve nothing less. You have my word that Pedders is as fanatical about our customer service as we are about R & D. We will do everything we can to return your support and loyalty by delivering the finest products we can build to the best customer's a company ever had.

We respect your trust in our brand. We appreciate the support we receive in the GTO, G8 and Camaro communities. We THANK YOU for making the PEDDERS NATION possible.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:54 PM   #2
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Awesome!
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:57 PM   #3
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Awesome!
The Camaro Community now has BRAGGING RIGHTS over the Vette Community!
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:43 PM   #4
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Great post!! Congrats!
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:48 PM   #5
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Please don't tell my wife as she is driving the new 2010 2SS and I am in my 2005 Corvette. She still believes I have the upper hand in the car dept... Us guys have to stick together :o)
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:04 PM   #6
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Nice comparison but doesn't this just show that for a chunk of $$$ you can beat the Vette around the track?

I don't mean this as criticism, but aren't their several cars you do the same thing with?

I now have more HP in my 2010 Camaro than what a stock Z06 has and could possibly beat it in a 1/4 mile run.

Not beating on Pedders at all. Just saying for a chunk of $$$ you can buy a winner, look at the Yankees.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:17 PM   #7
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I nominate this thread to go on the opening page

Great write-up and more videos please
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:59 PM   #8
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Please don't tell my wife as she is driving the new 2010 2SS and I am in my 2005 Corvette. She still believes I have the upper hand in the car dept... Us guys have to stick together :o)
What is interesting is that we have a lot less money, excluding some of the body mods to make the Pedders Camaro an eye catcher, in our Pedders Camaro, than buying the Vette. It is true, with enough money, you can get nearly any vehicle to beat it, except for maybe the Oscar Myer Wienermobile! LOL

It is really fun for example to build a car, that can compete in every way with a new M5 at half the costs.

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Old 11-20-2009, 10:44 PM   #9
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Nice comparison but doesn't this just show that for a chunk of $$$ you can beat the Vette around the track?

I don't mean this as criticism, but aren't their several cars you do the same thing with?

I now have more HP in my 2010 Camaro than what a stock Z06 has and could possibly beat it in a 1/4 mile run.

Not beating on Pedders at all. Just saying for a chunk of $$$ you can buy a winner, look at the Yankees.
You ar3e correct. With enough money you can make a sheet of plywood into an airplane. What we did was build a Camaro for just a bit less than the cost of a 2009 C6 Vette.

As for your car and the Z06. I say do it! There is nothing a Camaro owner likes more than beating up on the proverbial big brother.

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Old 11-20-2009, 10:45 PM   #10
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I nominate this thread to go on the opening page

Great write-up and more videos please
Thank you.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by CWIweldace View Post
Nice comparison but doesn't this just show that for a chunk of $$$ you can beat the Vette around the track?

I don't mean this as criticism, but aren't their several cars you do the same thing with?

I now have more HP in my 2010 Camaro than what a stock Z06 has and could possibly beat it in a 1/4 mile run.

Not beating on Pedders at all. Just saying for a chunk of $$$ you can buy a winner, look at the Yankees.
Your Yankees comparison is really good. We target the Vette, because it is the epitimy of an American Sports car, and the Z06 then Zr1 are at the top of the world of automotive food chain. So when we can make a Camaro outhandle a Ferrari, Lambo, Z06, at half to 1/3 the price of these great cars, it does the Camaro a great service. GM does not want the Camaro to outperform a Z06. But when the GM Camaro engineers watched our performance at the Optima Challenge, they were very proud. And so were we, and so should you!

By the next Optima Challenge, we will have the Camaro brakes at world class levels. This is an announcement to all other suspension companies to give you a benchmark. We will still be in the exhibition class. You all know what we did in 2009. You will have to guess as to what increases, and there will be, for 2010. We have already been invited.

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thanks
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:03 PM   #12
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This is pretty amazing. I will be, without any doubt, getting one of your suspensions sometime after finally getting my SS.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:52 AM   #13
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Your Yankees comparison is really good. We target the Vette, because it is the epitimy of an American Sports car, and the Z06 then Zr1 are at the top of the world of automotive food chain. So when we can make a Camaro outhandle a Ferrari, Lambo, Z06, at half to 1/3 the price of these great cars, it does the Camaro a great service. GM does not want the Camaro to outperform a Z06. But when the GM Camaro engineers watched our performance at the Optima Challenge, they were very proud. And so were we, and so should you!

By the next Optima Challenge, we will have the Camaro brakes at world class levels. This is an announcement to all other suspension companies to give you a benchmark. We will still be in the exhibition class. You all know what we did in 2009. You will have to guess as to what increases, and there will be, for 2010. We have already been invited.

mike
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thanks
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Was that a gauntlet I heard hitting the ground?

Great job guys
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:07 PM   #14
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Mike does get excited.

When we develop a product for a new chassis we build our own car with substantially more performance capabilities than stock. We feel this is necessary for R & D. Generally I drive the car as a daily drive along with my wife to get a real world feel for the live-ability. Testing on the track is one thing. Taking a cross country drive is a very different. We do both. The results are generally a very good blend of track ready handling and daily driver comfort. We post in detail our experience and results. It should be obvious to anyone who is interested what we would bring to an event.

The performance specifications of our cars are posted on line and on our website. That makes beating Pedders easy. Whatever we bring to an event will never surprise anyone. Whatever we bring to an event will be dialed in and perform exactly as posted on the forums. It is what we have done since day one and what we will continue to do. We do this not to win at the event, but to deliver the best possible product.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:24 AM   #15
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Mike does get excited.

When we develop a product for a new chassis we build our own car with substantially more performance capabilities than stock. We feel this is necessary for R & D. Generally I drive the car as a daily drive along with my wife to get a real world feel for the live-ability. Testing on the track is one thing. Taking a cross country drive is a very different. We do both. The results are generally a very good blend of track ready handling and daily driver comfort. We post in detail our experience and results. It should be obvious to anyone who is interested what we would bring to an event.

The performance specifications of our cars are posted on line and on our website. That makes beating Pedders easy. Whatever we bring to an event will never surprise anyone. Whatever we bring to an event will be dialed in and perform exactly as posted on the forums. It is what we have done since day one and what we will continue to do. We do this not to win at the event, but to deliver the best possible product.
I like the way you guys do things "No bull".
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:15 PM   #16
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I like the way you guys do things "No bull".
"No Bull", is our trademark.

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Old 11-23-2009, 10:17 PM   #17
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I'd just settle for some Pedders Z28 footage!!!
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:21 PM   #18
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I'd just settle for some Pedders Z28 footage!!!
LOL. Do you enjoy fishing and are you successful at it?

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Old 11-23-2009, 10:26 PM   #19
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LOL. Do you enjoy fishing and are you successful at it?

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Of course... It's treated me well for a year and a half now!
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:29 PM   #20
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Of course... It's treated me well for a year and a half now!
I like fishing as well. Have caught everything from rainbow trout, to a 185lb black Marlin. Took 1.5 hours to get that bad boy in the boat.

I am afraid however it will take longer than that to get additional info out of us about future GM projects. We cannot discuss anything at all until things are announce. But you know that.

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Old 11-23-2009, 10:31 PM   #21
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I like fishing as well. Have caught everything from rainbow trout, to a 185lb black Marlin. Took 1.5 hours to get that bad boy in the boat.

I am afraid however it will take longer than that to get additional info out of us about future GM projects. We cannot discuss anything at all until things are announce. But you know that.

mike
dms
Completely understand. I can't wait for the fish to be reeled in and in the boat...I'll just continue to troll.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:43 AM   #22
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I like fishing as well. Have caught everything from rainbow trout, to a 185lb black Marlin. Took 1.5 hours to get that bad boy in the boat.

I am afraid however it will take longer than that to get additional info out of us about future GM projects. We cannot discuss anything at all until things are announce. But you know that.

mike
dms
So... you guys are working with GM on production cars?...
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:07 AM   #23
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So... you guys are working with GM on production cars?...


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Old 11-24-2009, 10:20 AM   #24
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I've heard a stupid question is a question not asked
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:39 PM   #25
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Is there be a market for a SCCA T2 suspension option on the 5th Gen Camaro?

Would Z28 buyers see the value of Pedders Xa coilovers, key bushes and sway bars from the factory?
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