Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Kraft Werks
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-09-2008, 11:00 PM   #1
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Not Good Boys...

A buddy and i test drove the new pontiac G8 today, and let me tell you this car was a winner on so many levels... but one level stood out in a negative manor, and was so drastic that it stopped either of us from wanting the car. At least with the Auto.

The Auto/manual shift system in the car lagged to the point that would make you uncertain if you had shifted hard enough, wondering if the computer read it and you should do it again.

The Shifts that were made in the 'Manual' mode were lagged what felt like seconds, realistically it was probaly just over a second or two. But a car travels a long time in a second or two.

i wasnt expecting lighting fast shifts like that in a Ferrari, but this almost made the whole 'manual' concept irrelevant. It made you feel even more detached from the car than you did before.

Now the real scary thing about this: this is the same 'TAPshift' system we're getting in the Camaro, According to the man at the dealership i talked to.

now im having trouble confirming this to be true, but it seems like it would be true. New systems, same platform, the G8 and Camaro are alot alike in alot of ways... just makes sense.

Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:04 PM   #2
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
Get a manual... Problem solved... J/K Haven't driven the G8. I love the car but it only being available in a auto except for the G8 GXP that is to come out was a major turn-off for me personally.
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:20 PM   #3
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Did you test; the V6, or the V8? Cause they were two different transmissions....

And keep in mind they can recalibrate the transmission from car to car. They 'fixed' it in the Corvette from 07 to 08, which produced a noticeable response increase according to the 'Vette guys. And they're also playing with shift response in the Camaro to drop the V6 0-60 from 6.1 to 5.9.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:58 PM   #4
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Did you test; the V6, or the V8? Cause they were two different transmissions....

And keep in mind they can recalibrate the transmission from car to car. They 'fixed' it in the Corvette from 07 to 08, which produced a noticeable response increase according to the 'Vette guys. And they're also playing with shift response in the Camaro to drop the V6 0-60 from 6.1 to 5.9.
I test drove the V8, im hoping they recalibrate something to rectify this. If you were the one that was driving you'd be saying the same thing.
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 02:54 AM   #5
TAG UR IT
www.Camaro5store.com
 
TAG UR IT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1 #705
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SA, Texas
Posts: 26,352
I wanted to test drive the G8 GT and as a few know...that car REALLY impressed me on looks, fit, and finish alone. I didn't drive it cause I was afraid I wouldn't have returned it to the dealership!

But, to fix that problem, BUY A MANUAL!!! Or don't tap shift. But buy a manual....hehe ....much better anyway.
TAG UR IT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 06:14 AM   #6
spd98
 
Drives: had a goat
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 349
The gripes about the manumatic modes are well known. The bottom line is if you want to shift your own gears get a manual. It does wake up considerably with a tune but really. Buying an auto and hand shifting it on a regular basis is just silly.
spd98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 08:27 AM   #7
Shifty 6
 
Drives: 2010 GTI
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Morton, IL
Posts: 679
I drove the G8 with the V8 in it and I don't recall the shifts being that bad. I was very impressed with the fit and finish. I am hoping the Camaro gets the leather from the same supplier. The center console was cheap but overall the car was great. Keep in mind this is the 4 door sedan, it shouldn't have lighting quick shifts for the family. I would guess the target audience is a little different. I guess I'm saying I think the shifting will be much better in the Camaro. I know mine will be.....I'm getting the stick.
Shifty 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 08:50 AM   #8
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,102
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Its control over an automatic transmission. Nothing more, nothing less. The shifts will still feel like like an automatic no matter what. If you want your car to shift like a manual, you need to get a manual. Tap shift and the like are for having a bit more fun with an automatic not to replace a manual.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 08:59 AM   #9
MerF
Go Rays!
 
MerF's Avatar
 
Drives: 03 Trailblazer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St Pete, Florida
Posts: 2,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by spd98 View Post
The gripes about the manumatic modes are well known. The bottom line is if you want to shift your own gears get a manual. It does wake up considerably with a tune but really. Buying an auto and hand shifting it on a regular basis is just silly.
I agree 100% and always have. Only the exotics and real race cars use tap-shifting that actually matters.
MerF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 09:10 AM   #10
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
Yeah. Unless the transmission in a G8, was a dual-clutch transmission, like what I believed are used in the Audi/VW's DSG/Triptronic transmission, or from BMW's or Mercedes, those transmissions have a much better feeling when up-shifting/down-shifting.

The transmission on the G8 is still basically just an "automatic transmission" with a computer controlled manual shifting system. I've driven them on a few cars, G6 Coupe, Lincoln LS V8, Lincoln MKS etc and my car's a stick and there's no comparison.

So yeah I'm sure when the Hydramatic "auto" comes over to the Camaro it'll be more refined...
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 09:27 AM   #11
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS4EVER View Post
Yeah. Unless the transmission in a G8, was a dual-clutch transmission, like what I believed are used in the Audi/VW's DSG/Triptronic transmission, or from BMW's or Mercedes, those transmissions have a much better feeling when up-shifting/down-shifting.

The transmission on the G8 is still basically just an "automatic transmission" with a computer controlled manual shifting system. I've driven them on a few cars, G6 Coupe, Lincoln LS V8, Lincoln MKS etc and my car's a stick and there's no comparison.

So yeah I'm sure when the Hydramatic "auto" comes over to the Camaro it'll be more refined...
+1 Didn't an engineer, in the NBC special, comment on calibrating the transmission in the V8 car? I could've swore I read that they're going to be calibrating the TapShift to be able to hold that gear at redline. Hmmm... now I have to find it.
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 09:43 AM   #12
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by spd98 View Post
The gripes about the manumatic modes are well known. The bottom line is if you want to shift your own gears get a manual. It does wake up considerably with a tune but really. Buying an auto and hand shifting it on a regular basis is just silly.
What is silly is putting something in a car that doesnt work.

why put that there if it is ineffective??
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 09:55 AM   #13
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,102
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Congoman775 View Post
What is silly is putting something in a car that doesnt work.

why put that there if it is ineffective??
It does work, its just not as quick as you would like. But when you tell it to shift it does shift. Therefore it works.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 10:59 AM   #14
stovt001


 
stovt001's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 3,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by spd98 View Post
The gripes about the manumatic modes are well known. The bottom line is if you want to shift your own gears get a manual. It does wake up considerably with a tune but really. Buying an auto and hand shifting it on a regular basis is just silly.
Well since I have a bad knee, taking the clutch peddle out of the equation but still being able to manually shift is appealing. However I know the limitations of a simple automatic with a simple manual shift mode. I'm still hoping we see a nice DCT by the time I buy. Otherwise I'll be getting the manual and keeping advil in the car for my leg on long drives.
__________________
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible" - Walt Disney

There's a great big beautiful tomorrow
shining at the end of every day
There's a great big beautiful tomorrow
Just a dream away
stovt001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:11 AM   #15
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
It does work, its just not as quick as you would like. But when you tell it to shift it does shift. Therefore it works.
it works in the same way a map pined to the dash works as a Nav system.
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:16 AM   #16
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
It does work, its just not as quick as you would like. But when you tell it to shift it does shift. Therefore it works.
That's just settling imo. If you are going to offer something to an enthuisiast community like ours, make it right or get rid of it. Otherwise it's just a gimmick. Tap shifting when set-up correctly is one of the best things a car can have as far as control is concerned. Just ask any Formula 1 driver. Has anyone here driven an automatic Porsche with a Tiptronic?
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:28 AM   #17
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
That's just settling imo. If you are going to offer something to an enthuisiast community like ours, make it right or get rid of it. Otherwise it's just a gimmick. Tap shifting when set-up correctly is one of the best things a car can have as far as control is concerned. Just ask any Formula 1 driver. Has anyone here driven an automatic Porsche with a Tiptronic?
my dad has a 911 4S with tiptronic, and i LOVE driving that car. not only is it faster than a manual, but it just feels cleaner, the car runs smoother, and if your in traffic, the car does the work for you.

one of the reasons im getting on the TapShift case is because if its not a good functional tool , why is it in the car?
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:29 AM   #18
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,102
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Congoman775 View Post
it works in the same way a map pined to the dash works as a Nav system.
Yes. I prefer paper maps anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
That's just settling imo. If you are going to offer something to an enthuisiast community like ours, make it right or get rid of it. Otherwise it's just a gimmick. Tap shifting when set-up correctly is one of the best things a car can have as far as control is concerned. Just ask any Formula 1 driver. Has anyone here driven an automatic Porsche with a Tiptronic?
That system is an automated manual. This is a automatic with a manual mode. Completely different. A automated manual is for pure performance. This is a way to give you more control over an automatic -but its still an automatic at heart. Much like AWD vs 4wd. On the surface they are similar but for going all out there is no comparison between the two.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:41 AM   #19
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Yes. I prefer paper maps anyway


That system is an automated manual. This is a automatic with a manual mode. Completely different. A automated manual is for pure performance. This is a way to give you more control over an automatic -but its still an automatic at heart. Much like AWD vs 4wd. On the surface they are similar but for going all out there is no comparison between the two.
its not all that impressive.


how is the lag time on a corvette? i cant imagine someone driving a performance car settling.
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 11:55 AM   #20
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Yes. I prefer paper maps anyway


That system is an automated manual. This is a automatic with a manual mode. Completely different. A automated manual is for pure performance. This is a way to give you more control over an automatic -but its still an automatic at heart. Much like AWD vs 4wd. On the surface they are similar but for going all out there is no comparison between the two.
Yes, it is similar in design as the M3 but my point is about it's execution. We are talking about an electrical signal which can easily trigger the computer to up or downshift the tranny at the blink of an eye. We need this thing to change when WE the enthusiast want the tranny to change gears, not when some engineer at GM thinks it should be changing.

It should work the same way as a manual in the sense that if someone upshifts too early, the motor bogs (thanks skipshift in my '01) or if someone downshifts too early, the rear tires lock up.
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"

Last edited by Hylton; 09-10-2008 at 12:08 PM.
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 12:08 PM   #21
Jamestwilliams
junior member
 
Drives: Grand Am
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 534
It sounds like you guys want the F1 style paddle shifters that have an automatically actuated clutch. Do you have any idea how much that would add to the cost of the car?

Besides if you can live with being 1-2 10ths slower to sixty you can get a real manual transmission. I know I sure can, besides those that are actually bothered by bing beat by an auto can always get performance upgrades.
Jamestwilliams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 12:23 PM   #22
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamestwilliams View Post
It sounds like you guys want the F1 style paddle shifters that have an automatically actuated clutch. Do you have any idea how much that would add to the cost of the car?

Besides if you can live with being 1-2 10ths slower to sixty you can get a real manual transmission. I know I sure can, besides those that are actually bothered by bing beat by an auto can always get performance upgrades.
Nobody is asking for a manual transmission (which a Porsche, M3 and F1 has). Just get the computer to upshift or downshift the auto tranny at the point we want. Pretty simple really.

You might beat me with the stick in a drag race but i'd serve you up on a plate in auto-X with a good paddle shift set-up.
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 12:35 PM   #23
Jamestwilliams
junior member
 
Drives: Grand Am
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
Nobody is asking for a manual transmission (which a Porsche, M3 and F1 has). Just get the computer to upshift or downshift the auto tranny at the point we want. Pretty simple really.

You might beat me with the stick in a drag race but i'd serve you up on a plate in auto-X with a good paddle shift set-up.
A paddle with a torque converter is never going to be as crisp as you seem to want, besides it would be fun try at auto cross, and by the way not a big fan of drag racing. There might be an aftermarket for the manual trannies to give them better shifts possibly a reprogram for the computer aswell who knows.
Ps. I'd race you anytime, it would be fun to see how this turns out in the real world. By the way you'd probably kick my ass in either car doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun.
Jamestwilliams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 01:02 PM   #24
Congoman775

 
Congoman775's Avatar
 
Drives: Muscle
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,315
The auto/paddles are made to the feeling of a manual in an automatic car.

IMHO it fails to deliver on that, because its not .1 or .2 seconds, its well over a full second.

This may mean i will have to get a manual, but isnt that kind of sad to think about? if you dont want to SETTLE, you have to get a completely different tranny?
Congoman775 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 01:06 PM   #25
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamestwilliams View Post
A paddle with a torque converter is never going to be as crisp as you seem to want, besides it would be fun try at auto cross, and by the way not a big fan of drag racing. There might be an aftermarket for the manual trannies to give them better shifts possibly a reprogram for the computer aswell who knows.
Ps. I'd race you anytime, it would be fun to see how this turns out in the real world. By the way you'd probably kick my ass in either car doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun.
Race you around the track at Indy on the 21st.....
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will the V6 have DBW or a good old fashioned cable throttle? theholycow Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 41 08-02-2009 08:25 PM
Is alternative energy as we know it today a good Idea? Angrybird 12 Off-topic Discussions 15 08-09-2008 02:18 AM
Edmunds.com review of Holden Commodore... good info. LSxcellent General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 6 07-23-2007 06:49 PM
Good News Boys and Girls Freedom07 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 45 01-31-2007 10:08 AM
Crash tests downgrade small cars KILLER74Z28 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 0 12-19-2006 03:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.