Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
River City Camaro Customs
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro 1LE Forum

Camaro 1LE Forum Camaro 1LE Package releated discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2009, 10:36 PM   #26
djsnoflake
Faith Keeper
 
djsnoflake's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Silverado LTZ, 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
Cant make niche vehicles but they are making the CTS Wagon and the CTS Coupe along with V variants of both? If that isnt niche I dont know what is.

I do see what you are saying though.
I didn't know the wagon was a go. Interesting. And maybe I am wrong but I thought the CTS coupe was confirmed before all the bankruptcy stuff, so that's why it's a go?

As far as having 'V' variants though, that's not a big deal because it is just an engine, tranny, suspension they already are putting in the sedan version. No added development costs really. The parts are already made, they are already stocked and the workers already know how to install them.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
.........we are far from finished.................
djsnoflake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 10:41 PM   #27
bballr4567
 
Drives: 2006 GTO
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 718
Exactly.

If all these private companies can do the suspension for the Zeta cars GM can certainly afford to do it. Its a few bushings and suspension components.

Anyways, I doubt GM will do a track pack because they most certainly have their blinders on right now. The Camaro is outselling the Mustang for the moment but who knows what is going to happen in a few months.
bballr4567 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 11:42 PM   #28
The_Blur
Jayhawk USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Whiting Field
Posts: 14,221
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by brjray View Post
As an Engineer, I would be itching to hone this car for such a task.
As an engineer, wouldn't you rather do this yourself by comparing available products for the best results? I figure that GM makes great engines and designs beautiful cars. I don't expect GM to build the best racing suspension. I'd put that standard on the likes of Pedders. I also don't expect GM to engineer the world's best exhaust system. I'll put that standard on the likes of Magnaflow. In other words, I'd like to see what kind of a car you would build for the same money that you could have spent on a 1LE or Z28. As an engineer, wouldn't you trust yourself do the best research and product comparisons?
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009, 11:37 AM   #29
MikesZ
Group Provocateur
 
Drives: Long Distances
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsnoflake View Post
Hey sorry I misunderstood you through the magic of internet typing. I take "Heavy Duty" suspension to mean that it takes more of a beating and is actually made for supporting a heavier weight (Like on a truck or all the extra weight of police gear).

And I am not saying they don't already have some of the parts they might need. I am also not saying it wouldn't be easy to put together. It is relatively easy to get some new parts made in the grand scheme of things.

What I am saying is that it will be difficult to make a profit off of the low sales volume that having such an option would generate. And that more diversity equals a higher cost for all Camaro models.

I think that suspension/performance wise, GM would do best by mimicing Ford and making a Track-Pack type option that adds handling components and maybe some shorter gearing. Not a whole lot of people are interested in taking options like A/C off their cars anymore.


GM isn't really jumping back into low volume niche vehicles/models right now. They need to make a profit before they can start playing this game. If they could make niche vehicles, we'd know cause the Z/28 would be announced already.
All a 1LE would really need is the L99 + tranny in an LS body, the 18" steel wheels are already there, add BF Goodrich Ultra High Performance radials over the stock BFG radials, add stiffer suspension, heavier brakes (not Brembo though). Keep the LS interior features but just delete the XM and Onstar. Bingo, you've got the 1LE and at least the bones for your police package (they usually run oil and tranny coolers as well + HD alternators + center console delete + radio delete). Just saying, the package would not be that difficult to offer.
__________________
MikesZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:20 PM   #30
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
Every time you ADD a new potential part, you have to go through validation/certification...and possibly even crash testing, depending on the parts/system affected. Which means time and expen$e...

"Why GM"? Warranty...and the wish for most NOT to "mess" with their new car... Heavy duty mechanical unfits on Brand New cars is clearly NOT the majority's wish.

The Brembos are already "validated/certified". Bars and bushings are do-able, quickly. Perhaps springs, too, although a "drop" should NOT be expected (crash testing of new bumper heights!). The aftermarket already has THIS item...in spades.

Combined with the RS 20s on an LS/LT with it's lower curb weight, it's "1967" all over again (the original Z28, NOT the quickest/fastest, but certainly THE most "drivable"!)!
__________________
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:29 PM   #31
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
Yes, you could buy the parts over the counter IF you knew the part numbers. Back in 98-02 not many people did because the internet wasnt known so it was basically a back door type of order. Only way to know what it was, you had to have an inside guy.

1LE option would be amazing. Give the Camaro a "track pack" and watch how many people will check the box. I read somewhere that Ford is expecting like 20k orders of the track pack. That is A LOT of extra cash going into the car.

Also, they are Brembos!! They will squeak. That means they are working. Cant have awesome braking without the noise. Either take the noise or get worse braking.

BTW, Had a ZR1 pull up next to me about 3 weeks ago and talk about loud braking. However, they stop in an ungodly amount of time.
I don't mean to be rude but I just about spit water on my monitor when I read the statement I bolded above. You make it sound like ancient times LOL!

That information was widely available on the internet back then and still is now. There was nothing back door about it.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:35 PM   #32
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikesZ View Post
By heavy duty suspension I was referring to parts such as sway bars that improve handling...these parts are standard in police vehicles that need to maintain handling at high speeds. And that my man is VERY MUCH part of what makes a sports car! If you don't know that, then there is no sense commenting further. As for the 1LE option, GM's fleet division already has parts that could be used. Really, it would not be that difficult to put together the package.
As an aside I have a friend who is a police mechanic. Police Versions (9C1, etc). are not some magical special package. Realize the cars they are based on are floaty comfort based cars. The police packacges are just factory based suspension upgrades to make the car handle in general, as if you've ever driven a NON police Crown Vic you would know it handles like a dump truck with a flat tire.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:42 PM   #33
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikesZ View Post
All a 1LE would really need is the L99 + tranny in an LS body, the 18" steel wheels are already there, add BF Goodrich Ultra High Performance radials over the stock BFG radials, add stiffer suspension, heavier brakes (not Brembo though). Keep the LS interior features but just delete the XM and Onstar. Bingo, you've got the 1LE and at least the bones for your police package (they usually run oil and tranny coolers as well + HD alternators + center console delete + radio delete). Just saying, the package would not be that difficult to offer.
Don't you mean LS3

As well I don't understand the fascination (in this post and others) with making the 1LE package have an "LS Body". The body is identical aside from the plastic nose and tiny spoiler that I doubt weighs more than an ounce less. Its not like the past where you'd have some sort of substantial weight savings by cutting out the chrome bits and body parts. Theres nothing to cut.

Suffice it to say IF GM ever did make a 1LE package it would have an SS nose/spoiler as they are much more about brand identification today and they would want the V8 car to be identified by its looks no matter what.

As for police packages, for their interceptor cars they don't delete the console, and on all cars they definitely don't delete the radio. I know tons of cops, and all of em enjoy listening to the radio during the day....
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:51 PM   #34
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
1LE availability, and knowledge of it, by '98 was reasonably widespread, IF your Dealer/representative took the time to look in the Vehicle Order Guide. Not many Dealers stocked 'em, though, so if your local sales guy/gal was unwilling/unable to "search", to "him/her" it would be "rare" or "difficult to get". But it was in the VOG.

Earlier in the Gen4's life, 1LE was VERY difficult to get. In '95, it took a personal letter to GM Canada's President Maureen Kempston-Darkes to get a 1LE Formula built for a client...which turned out to be one of only TWO built that year, making it THE rarest Gen4 RPO F-car ever built...
__________________

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 12-28-2009 at 03:09 PM.
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:07 PM   #35
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
The "fascination" with V6 cars, as mentioned earlier in this thread, comes from GM's NEED to better promote V6 sales...

A "modern" 1LE based on the V6 would answer the true heritage question/example: 1967 Z28s were neither the quickest nor fastest Model offered...but were DEFINITELY THE MOST "fun" to actually drive. THAT was the car that the "legend" was created from... It was a "basic" car with a rev-happy-but-relatively-torqueless engine and better brakes/handling, for a "budget" price. Something an LS/LT w/RS and Brembos/bars would suitably provide, inexpen$ively.

Fuel savings and insurance rates would "seal the deal"...
__________________
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:43 PM   #36
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The "fascination" with V6 cars, as mentioned earlier in this thread, comes from GM's NEED to better promote V6 sales...

A "modern" 1LE based on the V6 would answer the true heritage question/example: 1967 Z28s were neither the quickest nor fastest Model offered...but were DEFINITELY THE MOST "fun" to actually drive. THAT was the car that the "legend" was created from... It was a "basic" car with a rev-happy-but-relatively-torqueless engine and better brakes/handling, for a "budget" price. Something an LS/LT w/RS and Brembos/bars would suitably provide, inexpen$ively.

Fuel savings and insurance rates would "seal the deal"...
Which could just be accomplished by stripping a 1SS (as if it isnt stripped enough) but the difference between a 1SS and 1LT is literally the engine, wheels, brakes, and suspension, all things youd want in a 1LE (altho the wheels are like lead bricks, I'd install something lighter). Otherwise you have the spoiler and nose, which is barely any savings, there was a lot more body differences in the old cars, and huge amounts of equipment differences none of which exist now. I question the fascination with the V6 nose because you gain nothing otehr than it looking like a lower model, theres no weight savings, nothing.

JMO a 1SS stripped down would make an excellent start to a 1LE, it would retain the brand identification of the V8 with the SS nose, but be lighter than all and therefore a great base to start from....

You can't get away from the insurance rates, the car would still be rated based ont he fact theres a V8 under the hood. Insurance companies are far wiser than they were many years ago.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 04:09 PM   #37
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
The LS/LT, like the original Z28, WEIGHS LESS than the SS without all the "complicated/expe$ive" Production Line deletes...

So put the "missing items" on the cheapest lightest Camaro (which is what Piggins did in '67 on the original Z28), and make it the ultimate handling Production Camaro because of its lighter Curb Weight (which is what Piggins ALSO did in '67). A 100lbs is 100lbs... Add your own 91-octane, 350hp w/CAI and exhaust (IF the Factory won't do it for you as part of this "package"...), and you'd have a quick nimble canyon-carver...just like a '67 Z28... A "1LE 350" will sell by the TRUCKLOAD...EVERYWHERE!

When you get into A/C-A31-AG1 deletes, you actually end up INCREASING the price of the end Product, and it's manufacturing "complexity". Porsche has made a small fortune with their "Club Sport" (or whatever name they choose to use) packages by charging more for less...

Insurance $avings accrue because a V6 rates a lower premium that a V8...and that's VERY significant to the "Under 25/Male" segment, the Target Market for this lil darlin'...

A super-handling, mega-power SS is, if I'm NOT mistaken, where the reconstituted Z28 will reside...which is robbing from Gen4 "heritage", NOT the Gen1s the car was "styled" from...
__________________

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 12-28-2009 at 04:28 PM.
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:33 PM   #38
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The LS/LT, like the original Z28, WEIGHS LESS than the SS without all the "complicated/expe$ive" Production Line deletes...

So put the "missing items" on the cheapest lightest Camaro (which is what Piggins did in '67 on the original Z28), and make it the ultimate handling Production Camaro because of its lighter Curb Weight (which is what Piggins ALSO did in '67). A 100lbs is 100lbs... Add your own 91-octane, 350hp w/CAI and exhaust (IF the Factory won't do it for you as part of this "package"...), and you'd have a quick nimble canyon-carver...just like a '67 Z28... A "1LE 350" will sell by the TRUCKLOAD...EVERYWHERE!

When you get into A/C-A31-AG1 deletes, you actually end up INCREASING the price of the end Product, and it's manufacturing "complexity". Porsche has made a small fortune with their "Club Sport" (or whatever name they choose to use) packages by charging more for less...

Insurance $avings accrue because a V6 rates a lower premium that a V8...and that's VERY significant to the "Under 25/Male" segment, the Target Market for this lil darlin'...

A super-handling, mega-power SS is, if I'm NOT mistaken, where the reconstituted Z28 will reside...which is robbing from Gen4 "heritage", NOT the Gen1s the car was "styled" from...
I don't know where you get your data but if you exclude the fact that the engine is bigger in the SS the LS/LT does not weigh less its the same damn chassis, frame, sound deadening, etc. They are identical vehicles aside from the engines and suspension components. They are all built off the same thing. You won't get any sort of extra weight savings of using a 1LT vs a 1SS they are the identical car. If you took a "1LT" and put all the 1SS performance parts in it you would have a 1SS its identical. The 1SS weighs more because it has a physically bigger engine that weighs more. The LS loses a couple details like the foglights and the ability to add certain options which would be easy enough to do to a 1SS.

Back in the day the lower V6 models had less equipment, options, chrome etc, which made a stripper V8 car a novelty as you just plain couldn't buy it. Thats just not the case today, a 1SS and 1LT are identical aside from the obvious shape of the nose (which probably weighs the same) and the wheels, suspension, engine and brakes, all of which would be added to a "1LE" package to make it a performance car.

* almost forgot we've established from fbodfather the engine cradle on a V6 frame vs a V8 frame has different mounting points, so you couldn't even install a V8 engine in there anyway. As I said they are identical cars so this makes no sense anyway.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:55 PM   #39
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
V6 ENGINE WEIGHS LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT talking about a V8-powered car...and I THOUGHT that was fairly obvious...but apparently NOT...

A V6 CAR!!!

Which happens to weigh less...costs less to insure...gets better mpgs...costs less to purchase and pay for...and helps to Market-Drive the V6 Models...which Camaro/GM desperately needs... instead of floggin' 'em to Rent-a-Wreck fleets, only to eventually undercut the New Car Department with "distressed merchandise" from the Used car lots...

As stated, the "original" Z28s were NOT the quickest/fastest, but they WERE the most fun...and so would this "special" V6...

Read it again...V6!

NOW does it make sense?!
__________________
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:55 PM   #40
BRKLYN
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 98 C-5, Chev/Venture, VTX1300
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: KISSIMMEE, FL
Posts: 198
bare bones muscle, with composite quarter panels
BRKLYN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 11:42 PM   #41
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
V6 ENGINE WEIGHS LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT talking about a V8-powered car...and I THOUGHT that was fairly obvious...but apparently NOT...

A V6 CAR!!!

Which happens to weigh less...costs less to insure...gets better mpgs...costs less to purchase and pay for...and helps to Market-Drive the V6 Models...which Camaro/GM desperately needs... instead of floggin' 'em to Rent-a-Wreck fleets, only to eventually undercut the New Car Department with "distressed merchandise" from the Used car lots...

As stated, the "original" Z28s were NOT the quickest/fastest, but they WERE the most fun...and so would this "special" V6...

Read it again...V6!

NOW does it make sense?!
AND you missed why I was asking whats the fascination with the V6 BODY. SO far a lot have said make a 1LE that has the V6 Body with the V8, which I am saying makes no sense as there is no savings that way. Thats why I was confused as it seemed like YOU were talking about the V6 style, not the whole car being V6 engine based.

As well if you were making a 1LE which was a factory "race car" option making it a V6 would be nothing short of useless as there is no way you could lighten it enough to make it competitive in anything. Now if it was turboed like the one in your profile pic (the Leno car) then we are talking. Unfortunately this will never happen.

The bottom line is you were talking about something completely different than the point of the thread which was a lightweight weekend racer V8 option, the 1LE.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 12:55 AM   #42
djsnoflake
Faith Keeper
 
djsnoflake's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Silverado LTZ, 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
AND you missed why I was asking whats the fascination with the V6 BODY. SO far a lot have said make a 1LE that has the V6 Body with the V8, which I am saying makes no sense as there is no savings that way. Thats why I was confused as it seemed like YOU were talking about the V6 style, not the whole car being V6 engine based.

As well if you were making a 1LE which was a factory "race car" option making it a V6 would be nothing short of useless as there is no way you could lighten it enough to make it competitive in anything. Now if it was turboed like the one in your profile pic (the Leno car) then we are talking. Unfortunately this will never happen.

The bottom line is you were talking about something completely different than the point of the thread which was a lightweight weekend racer V8 option, the 1LE.
Not to stir the pot, but if you Turbo a V6, how much weight do you save over the V8, once you add in an intercooler, and all the piping, yo end up at roughly the same HP as a V8 SS..............?
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
.........we are far from finished.................
djsnoflake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 06:03 AM   #43
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsnoflake View Post
Not to stir the pot, but if you Turbo a V6, how much weight do you save over the V8, once you add in an intercooler, and all the piping, yo end up at roughly the same HP as a V8 SS..............?
Good point...... thats exactly why its not a 1LE
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 06:40 AM   #44
NinoSS

 
Drives: 2SS/RS CGM LS3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,409
I had a 1990 1LE. 1 of 34 305 TPI's... I sold it to a friend for what I paid and he wound up turning a profit... The roll up windows and no air got old though.
NinoSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 06:57 AM   #45
2010 SSRS



 
2010 SSRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 3 V8 Camaros
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Ocean State
Posts: 123,977
1LE would be awesome and they definitely need to offer rear end gears as options.
2010 SSRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 10:22 AM   #46
MikesZ
Group Provocateur
 
Drives: Long Distances
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
Which could just be accomplished by stripping a 1SS (as if it isnt stripped enough) but the difference between a 1SS and 1LT is literally the engine, wheels, brakes, and suspension, all things youd want in a 1LE (altho the wheels are like lead bricks, I'd install something lighter). Otherwise you have the spoiler and nose, which is barely any savings, there was a lot more body differences in the old cars, and huge amounts of equipment differences none of which exist now. I question the fascination with the V6 nose because you gain nothing otehr than it looking like a lower model, theres no weight savings, nothing.

JMO a 1SS stripped down would make an excellent start to a 1LE, it would retain the brand identification of the V8 with the SS nose, but be lighter than all and therefore a great base to start from....

You can't get away from the insurance rates, the car would still be rated based ont he fact theres a V8 under the hood. Insurance companies are far wiser than they were many years ago.
You would use the cheapest body, which would be the LS body. A 1LE would not have fancy wheels or a spoiler (one more thing to come loose and fly off the vehicle at exceedingly high speed while cornering). If its cheaper to leave the base LS interior features...then leave them. But it would at least need a small V8 & corresponding tranny, suspension upgrades, better rear end, and better breaking.
__________________
MikesZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 10:30 AM   #47
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
LOWDOWN's Avatar
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,131
A 1SS is likely to be the least festooned RPO V8 offered...for all the reasons outlined above. 2000 Camaro 1LEs, from '88 to '02, does not present a very compelling business case for a V8 1LE's "return"...

Race car builders have the option of GM PP's "body-in-white" Program to build from. Combined with a write-off SS (which, with winter now here, are increasing in numbers, daily!), just like Burger King, you can "have it your way"...

As mentioned earlier in the Camaro "history lesson", the '67 Z28 was a Package created through Vince Piggins essentially for Trans Am Series qualification. A basic car with a high-winding, relatively torqueless engine (kinda sounds like the LLT, no?) which anyone who drove a '67-'69 showroom Z28 can confirm. Suspension upgrades beyond the SS350. Front Disc Brakes. NO stripes or spoilers or badging to speak of, on most '67s...

Soooooooo...use an LS or 1LT as the basis for creating a truly "heritage-inspired" Camaro (and my vote would be for the LS). Upgraded Brembos and bars and bushings. Throw in a 91-octane "tune" and, perhaps, the already GM PP-"validated" exhaust and CAI...voila! 350 (a magic GM/Camaro number!) hp, canyon carving vehicle dynamics (with the 20s and Summer-only rubber), 30 mpg CAFE-friendly "economy", and instant Demand for a V6 version GM desperately NEEDS! One step ahead of the EcoBoost Mustang, pending...and legitimately call it the 1LE...

1LE was a '98-'02 outgrowth, in the US, for a Canadian-conceived and -developed Package tagged "R7U". These cars, first manufactured for the '86 Model Year, were purpose-built for the GM/Player's Challenge Series for IROCS and Trans Ams, and were developed by GM Canada for a CASC-sanctioned Series which raced as a support to ChampCar races in Toronto and Sanair, as well as endurance series run at Mosport and other venues. A separate Series was run in the West. The Series was developed by Martin Chenhall, Earl Dickenson and Bill Ball, with funding from GM Canada and Player's (Imperial Tobacco), and was the tool used by (among others) Ron Fellows to successfully (!!) develop his sedan-racing skills. In fact, Earl Dickenson was the man who introduced Ron to Herb Fishel at GM Racing...and the rest, they say, is history...

LS...350 hp...Brembos...bars...bushings...20s...NO spoilers...NO gingerbread... Light and agile, NOT "overwhelming", but "talented"...

As a relatively unknown/unappreciated Package in '67, Chev sold 602. NO internet to pass the word along. By '69 (with its extended Model run), numbers swelled to 19,000+, and today a '69 Z28 is considered THE coveted Camaro to own. That's why there were 19,000 sold, and today there's a few 100,000 of them on the roads!

But the car was NEVER the quickest/fastest 1st Gen Camaro, off the showroom floor.

History CAN repeat itself. Paint some in Sunoco Blue, or Smokey Black-n-Gold, and see what happens!!!

What has been the sustained success secret to the Mustang? "Exciting", volume-based Packages for the V6 versions ("Pony", anyone?). Camaro MUST do the same...and THIS version would be unlike anything currently at the Ford Store...

Or, as usual, will GM simply wait till someone else does it to show THEM the way?!

Since us taxpayers own the bulk of the Company, maybe they ottta start listening to the Market (their true bosses) and build something the Market is overdue, and potentially VERY hungry, for...
__________________
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 10:31 AM   #48
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikesZ View Post
You would use the cheapest body, which would be the LS body. A 1LE would not have fancy wheels or a spoiler (one more thing to come loose and fly off the vehicle at exceedingly high speed while cornering). If its cheaper to leave the base LS interior features...then leave them. But it would at least need a small V8 & corresponding tranny, suspension upgrades, better rear end, and better breaking.
However the LS frame can't accept a V8 as I mentioned in another post. There are physically no real differences betwen the LS body and an SS body aside from the engine cradle

The only difference between the LS and the 1LT and 1SS is the availability of certain options, the interiors are trimmed out the same, you just can't order anything on the LS. As well it doesn't have fog lights. Chck chevy.com if you don't believe me the comparison link will show you, they are all the same.

All GM would have to do to make a 1LE is to make the option code on the 1SS lock out all other options, trim it out like an LS (its all the same parts anyway), and come up with some lighter wheels that still fit over the big brakes.

GM has done it before in exactly this way, maybe for 2011 or 2012 they will do it again.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 10:50 AM   #49
Rogue Leader
Iatefiberglassinsulation
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
A 1SS is likely to be the least festooned RPO V8 offered...for all the reasons outlined above. 2000 Camaro 1LEs, from '88 to '02, does not present a very compelling business case for a V8 1LE's "return"...

Race car builders have the option of GM PP's "body-in-white" Program to build from. Combined with a write-off SS (which, with winter now here, are increasing in numbers, daily!), just like Burger King, you can "have it your way"...

As mentioned earlier in the Camaro "history lesson", the '67 Z28 was a Package created through Vince Piggins essentially for Trans Am Series qualification. A basic car with a high-winding, relatively torqueless engine (kinda sounds like the LLT, no?) which anyone who drove a '67-'69 showroom Z28 can confirm. Suspension upgrades beyond the SS350. Front Disc Brakes. NO stripes or spoilers or badging to speak of, on most '67s...

Soooooooo...use an LS or 1LT as the basis for creating a truly "heritage-inspired" Camaro (and my vote would be for the LS). Upgraded Brembos and bars and bushings. Throw in a 91-octane "tune" and, perhaps, the already GM PP-"validated" exhaust and CAI...voila! 350 (a magic GM/Camaro number!) hp, canyon carving vehicle dynamics (with the 20s and Summer-only rubber), 30 mpg CAFE-friendly "economy", and instant Demand for a V6 version GM desperately NEEDS! One step ahead of the EcoBoost Mustang, pending...and legitimately call it the 1LE...

1LE was a '98-'02 outgrowth, in the US, for a Canadian-conceived and -developed Package tagged "R7U". These cars, first manufactured for the '86 Model Year, were purpose-built for the GM/Player's Challenge Series for IROCS and Trans Ams, and were developed by GM Canada for a CASC-sanctioned Series which raced as a support to ChampCar races in Toronto and Sanair, as well as endurance series run at Mosport and other venues. A separate Series was run in the West. The Series was developed by Martin Chenhall, Earl Dickenson and Bill Ball, with funding from GM Canada and Player's (Imperial Tobacco), and was the tool used by (among others) Ron Fellows to successfully (!!) develop his sedan-racing skills. In fact, Earl Dickenson was the man who introduced Ron to Herb Fishel at GM Racing...and the rest, they say, is history...

LS...350 hp...Brembos...bars...bushings...20s...NO spoilers...NO gingerbread... Light and agile, NOT "overwhelming", but "talented"...

As a relatively unknown/unappreciated Package in '67, Chev sold 602. NO internet to pass the word along. By '69 (with its extended Model run), numbers swelled to 19,000+, and today a '69 Z28 is considered THE coveted Camaro to own. That's why there were 19,000 sold, and today there's a few 100,000 of them on the roads!

But the car was NEVER the quickest/fastest 1st Gen Camaro, off the showroom floor.

History CAN repeat itself. Paint some in Sunoco Blue, or Smokey Black-n-Gold, and see what happens!!!

What has been the sustained success secret to the Mustang? "Exciting", volume-based Packages for the V6 versions ("Pony", anyone?). Camaro MUST do the same...and THIS version would be unlike anything currently at the Ford Store...

Or, as usual, will GM simply wait till someone else does it to show THEM the way?!
And build a camaro that will get dropped on the race track and twisty roads by a base Mustang GT or even V6 with the Track Pack...

The weight difference between an LS and a 1SS is 69 lbs... Check chevy.com if you don't believe me. Even jacking the V6 HP by 50 will get you nowhere.

You are missing the point of 1LE. It was a car a guy could buy, cage, and go showroom stock racing with. Or Autocross the hell out of it. This car is HEAVY even in V6 form, a 1LE will NOT be competitive with the 350Zs and Hyundai Genesises of the class it will be in.

I agree there should be some "hot" V6 versions like Ford has with the Mustang, but your idea is NOT a 1LE car and surely not a Z28 either.

* ps the Z28 DID have stripes, and chrome and shiny rally wheels. What you describe is more of a COPO car that the Z28 never was, it was a homologation special but still had some things to make it a daily car and indicate its racing connection.
__________________
I'm Brick Tamland. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48 and am what some people call mentally retarded.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Daily Driver
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD LT 6.0 - Tow Vehicle
1993 Volkswagen Fox - Race Car (yes seriously)

"Like" my race team on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/farfrumwinnin
Rogue Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 10:55 AM   #50
MikesZ
Group Provocateur
 
Drives: Long Distances
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
A 1SS is likely to be the least festooned RPO V8 offered...for all the reasons outlined above. 2000 Camaro 1LEs, from '88 to '02, does not present a very compelling business case for a V8 1LE's "return"...

Race car builders have the option of GM PP's "body-in-white" Program to build from. Combined with a write-off SS (which, with winter now here, are increasing in numbers, daily!), just like Burger King, you can "have it your way"...

As mentioned earlier in the Camaro "history lesson", the '67 Z28 was a Package created through Vince Piggins essentially for Trans Am Series qualification. A basic car with a high-winding, relatively torqueless engine (kinda sounds like the LLT, no?) which anyone who drove a '67-'69 showroom Z28 can confirm. Suspension upgrades beyond the SS350. Front Disc Brakes. NO stripes or spoilers or badging to speak of, on most '67s...

Soooooooo...use an LS or 1LT as the basis for creating a truly "heritage-inspired" Camaro (and my vote would be for the LS). Upgraded Brembos and bars and bushings. Throw in a 91-octane "tune" and, perhaps, the already GM PP-"validated" exhaust and CAI...voila! 350 (a magic GM/Camaro number!) hp, canyon carving vehicle dynamics (with the 20s and Summer-only rubber), 30 mpg CAFE-friendly "economy", and instant Demand for a V6 version GM desperately NEEDS! One step ahead of the EcoBoost Mustang, pending...and legitimately call it the 1LE...

1LE was a '98-'02 outgrowth, in the US, for a Canadian-conceived and -developed Package tagged "R7U". These cars, first manufactured for the '86 Model Year, were purpose-built for the GM/Player's Challenge Series for IROCS and Trans Ams, and were developed by GM Canada for a CASC-sanctioned Series which raced as a support to ChampCar races in Toronto and Sanair, as well as endurance series run at Mosport and other venues. A separate Series was run in the West. The Series was developed by Martin Chenhall, Earl Dickenson and Bill Ball, with funding from GM Canada and Player's (Imperial Tobacco), and was the tool used by (among others) Ron Fellows to successfully (!!) develop his sedan-racing skills. In fact, Earl Dickenson was the man who introduced Ron to Herb Fishel at GM Racing...and the rest, they say, is history...

LS...350 hp...Brembos...bars...bushings...20s...NO spoilers...NO gingerbread... Light and agile, NOT "overwhelming", but "talented"...

As a relatively unknown/unappreciated Package in '67, Chev sold 602. NO internet to pass the word along. By '69 (with its extended Model run), numbers swelled to 19,000+, and today a '69 Z28 is considered THE coveted Camaro to own. That's why there were 19,000 sold, and today there's a few 100,000 of them on the roads!

But the car was NEVER the quickest/fastest 1st Gen Camaro, off the showroom floor.

History CAN repeat itself. Paint some in Sunoco Blue, or Smokey Black-n-Gold, and see what happens!!!

What has been the sustained success secret to the Mustang? "Exciting", volume-based Packages for the V6 versions ("Pony", anyone?). Camaro MUST do the same...and THIS version would be unlike anything currently at the Ford Store...

Or, as usual, will GM simply wait till someone else does it to show THEM the way?!

Since us taxpayers own the bulk of the Company, maybe they ottta start listening to the Market (their true bosses) and build something the Market is overdue, and potentially VERY hungry, for...
I like your ideas but I think the car would handle better with 18" wheels.
__________________
MikesZ is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1LE Package; thoughts? briannutter Camaro 1LE Forum 33 08-02-2012 04:28 PM
1991 1LE Camaro Picture IROCZJEFF 3rd Generation Camaros 9 12-16-2008 09:09 AM
Any chance for a 1LE or B4C option? 99b4c Camaro 1LE Forum 9 10-27-2008 09:13 AM
2011 1LE CAMARO? IROCZJEFF Camaro 1LE Forum 10 09-09-2008 03:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.