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Old 02-11-2010, 12:29 PM   #26
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
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The biggest concerns that I have seen on trailing arms for the Camaro are 3 fold:
1. There are 2 trailing arm bushings per side. You are only replacing 1
2. The strength of the trailing arms are stronger than OE, but to be honest, there is no need to have a tubular arm. The issue is in the bushings, and not the strength of the arm.
3. We are seeing noise complaints on some of the link arms being replaced.

but the biggest concern is in fact the lack of control the trailing arms will give you because they are not replacing the outside bushing, which is the same bushing as the inside bushing that comes with the upgraded trailing arms.


The advantage is they look really great.

mike
dms
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:33 PM   #27
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i was under the impression that the trailing arms came with both bushings. am i mistaken?

BMR - can you clarify?
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme industries View Post
i was under the impression that the trailing arms came with both bushings. am i mistaken?

BMR - can you clarify?
I can verify that they do not. We had a issue that Livernois and us resolved at PRI that confirmed they do not replace the bushing in the knuckle assembly. Which is by the way, the same bushing that is in the inside. Or at least our Pedders bushing is exactly the same. It is also pretty easy to remove. But you will get a hole lot more control replacing all 4 OE bushings for the trailing arms than just the arm itself and leaving the outside bushing OE.

mike
dms
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme industries View Post
i was under the impression that the trailing arms came with both bushings. am i mistaken?

BMR - can you clarify?
The trailing arm has a bushing on one side and a bushing mount on the other. The bushing at the spindle is fixed to the spindle, not the trailing arm. They are simple to replace and we sell these bushings as well (for less then Brand X I might add). To see the installation procedure go HERE.



We have done LOTS of testing both ways, on the road course and drag strip, and can verify that the bushings are not the "sole" problem in this area. They definitely contribute, no question there, but simply replacing bushings does not eliminate wheel hop like a trailing arm with bushings will. These cars are 3800 lbs. Lateral acceleration and braking places extreme loads on this arm as it is the only link responsible for fore/aft wheel deflection under load.
If in doubt, don't take our word for it, just read:


Quote:
Originally Posted by nuptualnemesis View Post
Installed a set last night. After several launches they seem to have eliminated wheel hop and reduced wheel spin. Trying to get to the track tonight if it doesn't rain. Will post 60 foot if I can run.
and another:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Streetking View Post
Just got through putting these on my car. I have coilovers, Pfadt sway bars and before I put the trailing arms on, I would get some wheel hop in 3rd gear. Mr car makes over 600rwh and these trailing arms work...

SW
and another:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuptualnemesis View Post
Went to the track Friday after installing on Thursday.
Ran an all time best 12.611 / 113.5 MPH with 1.907 60ft. Did burn outs in second gear at 3 - 4,000 RPM and launched around 3,500 RPM. No wheel hop during burn outs or launches.

Best prior 60ft. was .211. However prior launch was in competition mode, now launching with everything turned off. I did have noticeable wheel hop before in comp mode and with everything off. This is a significant reduction in 60 ft.

I am running 20" Nitto Drag Radials so I can't speak for stock tires. Don't have prior 60 ft. time without comp mode on.
Excellent product, I highly recommend.

My time slip is posted under 1/4 mile times; will be #2 for bolt on.
American Racing headers, BMR Trailing Arms, Nitto Drag Radials, K&N filter, home made cold air duct, and computer tune. (waiting on Vararam intake).

Put a cam in on Saturday, getting my tune on Thursday, going to the track on Friday if not rained out. This is the test car for http://thunderracing.com. I'll update my 60 foot.
Cam is a CompCams 231/247 .617/.624 113 LSA.
Thunder Racing should post HP and Torque on their sit by weekend.
and another:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogg149 View Post
Oh fellows let me step in a sec. I bought these trailing arms earlier this week and got to install them today. Boy what a difference they make.

For those whom don't know my car is a prototype for Ultimate Performance turbo kit. Car is 610 rwhp. I was having a huge traction problem in all gears and speeds thanks to the Garrett turbo. I bolted on these Arms and trans brace today. A friend and myself took off for some testing runs in the mountain cuts north of here. We made several launches and took curves at some insane speeds 160 mph+. These arms work. No more wheel hops, alot more traction. Car just wants to squat and go. If these arms made such a huge difference in my Modified car than I could only imagine what it would do to stock.

By far the best suspension mod out there guys!!!

Thanks BMR and Kyle for the outstanding job.
and another:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuptualnemesis View Post
Best 60 foot of 1.667 Sunday 10/18.

Finally got back to the track after cam installation, cruise the coast, 40th high school reunion, etc.
Nitto drag radials and BMR TA's. Still running stock air box and its killing my cam. Gave up on Vararam and ordered a Halltech carbon fiber yellow jacket with 102 mm MAF. Also have ported throttle body and intake on order from VMAX Motorsports.

I was shocked when I ran the 1.667. I ran several 1.8's but was not getting good burn outs. Finally started a burn out at 4500 instead of 3500 in second gear a couple of feet out of the water box and let off on the brake after it started getting sideways. Got good smoke and good heat on the tires.

Best run was 12.42 with a 1.87 60 ft. When I ran the 1.667, I hit second and it spun the tires hard so I shifted at 6,600 and tach dropped to 4000 in third. I thought second was really short. Evidently the tires were still spinning bad when I shifted and it killed my ET. Only ran 12.50. I guess I'll have to hit second easier.

These trailing arms really work. My buddy has an A6 with wheel spin problems. He has hennesy CAI, tune, headers, Nitto's and BMR TA's. He cut his 60' from consistent low 2's to consistent low 1.8's with the TA's. He ran a 12.42 with minimal burn out and power braking at 1,800 rpm.
and another:

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange10s.c. View Post
Finally got mine installed and they are awsome. No more wheel hop Thanks, Guys
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:12 PM   #30
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The data that we have been given, shows deflections of the OE assembly, including both of the OE bushings to somewheres in the 12-15mm of deflection under a load equal to a 3000rpm dump. But that deflection is in the bushings and not the arm. We see the arm has in the thousandths of an inch deflection. Doing the bushings is the fix. I will also tell you you are better of if you are doing the trailing arm bushings, to also do the toe lnk bushings because you will get the same deflections with those as well. All of the toe link and trailing arm bushings are the same bushing size and dimensions.

Just my thoughts.

mike
dms
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:48 PM   #31
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Guys, no disrespect, but the outer bushing in the rear upright on a Camaro is in fact a spherical, not that same bushing as the others inboard, or on the toe link. This is a difference between the G8 and the Camaro rear uprights. To replace a spherical with poly would be a step in the wrong direction in our opinion, due to the drastically different compliance values.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
I can verify that they do not. We had a issue that Livernois and us resolved at PRI that confirmed they do not replace the bushing in the knuckle assembly. Which is by the way, the same bushing that is in the inside. Or at least our Pedders bushing is exactly the same. It is also pretty easy to remove. But you will get a hole lot more control replacing all 4 OE bushings for the trailing arms than just the arm itself and leaving the outside bushing OE.

mike
dms
Here is a picture from PRI that shows the BMR outer trailing arm bushing installed. How did you "confirm" that we do not replace this bushing? Are you sure that you know which suspension component is the trailing arm?



This is supposed to be a technical board. It really sucks that some suspension companies come on this board and spread inaccurate information.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:46 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
Guys, no disrespect, but the outer bushing in the rear upright on a Camaro is in fact a spherical, not that same bushing as the others inboard, or on the toe link. This is a difference between the G8 and the Camaro rear uprights. To replace a spherical with poly would be a step in the wrong direction in our opinion, due to the drastically different compliance values.
With all respect, you should know that the trailing arm bushing that is in the knuckle is absolutely NOT a spherical or rose jointed bushing as Holden calls it. The lower and upper control arm bushings at the knuckle are the bushing you are talking about. My discussion is ONLY related to the outer toe link and the outer trailing arm. Jordan, you should know this!!!!


mike
dms
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Fabrication View Post
Here is a picture from PRI that shows the BMR outer trailing arm bushing installed. How did you "confirm" that we do not replace this bushing? Are you sure that you know which suspension component is the trailing arm?



This is supposed to be a technical board. It really sucks that some suspension companies come on this board and spread inaccurate information.
Since you asked, I will tell. Livornia installed a Pedders Street 1 kit and your trailing arm and toe link arm. The owner posted that the Pedders bushings were noisy. So Livornia picked up his Camaro, and drove it to PRI and delivered the vehicle to us. We confirmed a rather loud squeek in the back end. What we found was your trailing arm making a very serious amount of noise. The fix was to reinstall the owners OE trailing arm and install them with inner and outer Pedders bushings. It was most unfortunate that Pedders got blamed for noises your parts caused. The outer bushing was NOT replaced.

We have a dealer in Ca. that ordered your trailing arm and it did not come with a knuckle bushing. This unit also made a lot of noise and the fix was to remove the BMR arm, and reinstall the OE trailing arm with Pedders bushings front and rear.

We have 4 events like this dealing specifically with BMR trailing arms. Now the owner of this forum assured us that you were notified in private about the PRI problem and he closed the thread out of respect for you. But since you asked, this is what happened and why I make the statements that I have. Now being on your web site, you make NO mention of including a outer knuckle bushing with your kit. It I am mistaken I sincerely apologize.


And your picture does not appear to have a red poly bushing in the outer knuckle of the trailing arm in your picture

Do you need me to give you the link to the thread about the PRI vehicle? I can give you the contact name for Livornia and the customer if you need to verify what I am saying


mike
dms

Last edited by Info@PeddersUSA.com; 02-12-2010 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:05 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Since you asked, I will tell. Livornia installed a Pedders Street 1 kit and your trailing arm and toe link arm. The owner posted that the Pedders bushings were noisy. So Livornia picked up his Camaro, and drove it to PRI and delivered the vehicle to us. We confirmed a rather loud squeek in the back end. What we found was your trailing arm making a very serious amount of noise. The fix was to reinstall the owners OE trailing arm and install them with inner and outer Pedders bushings. It was most unfortunate that Pedders got blamed for noises your parts caused. The outer bushing was NOT replaced.

We have a dealer in Ca. that ordered your trailing arm and it did not come with a knuckle bushing. This unit also made a lot of noise and the fix was to remove the BMR arm, and reinstall the OE trailing arm with Pedders bushings front and rear.

We have 4 events like this dealing specifically with BMR trailing arms. Now the owner of this forum assured us that you were notified in private about the PRI problem and he closed the thread out of respect for you. But since you asked, this is what happened and why I make the statements that I have. Now being on your web site, you make NO mention of including a outer knuckle bushing with your kit. It I am mistaken I sincerely apologize.


And your picture does not appear to have a red poly bushing in the outer knuckle of the trailing arm in your picture

Do you need me to give you the link to the thread about the PRI vehicle? I can give you the contact name for Livornia and the customer if you need to verify what I am saying

mike
dms

The BMR outer trailing arm bushing is black. However, if you know the difference between polyurethane and rubber, you should be able to tell the difference if you are standing next to it. Especially if the car is flipped on its side.

BMR part number BK006 is sold separately. Some customers choose to purchase this bushing. Some customers choose to wait and install it later. However, it has been available for quite some time now. It is listed on our website at the bottom of this page: http://www.bmrfabrication.com/F5.htm

Since you offered, I will accept your apology.

The bushing that you "CLAIM" makes a squeak is a very BMR common bushing. We use this bushing on many, many other suspension components. There are 1000s, maybe even 10,000 suspension components out there with this bushing. We very rarely get a customer complaint for squeaky bushings. When we do get a complaint, it is usually resolved by greasing the 2 face surfaces of the bushings.

BMR has NEVER received a customer complaint for squeaky bushings on the Camaro trailing arms. If you were having problems, why didn't you call us? We could have walked you through it. I feel bad for that Camaro owner that removed the BMR parts and replaced them with the stock parts because the bushing was not greased properly.

Please send me a PM with the customer's contact info. BMR would be glad to re-install the trailing arms and grease them properly.

It is interesting that you have had 4 "events" dealing with BMR trailing arms and yet we have never received a customer complaint that we couldn't resolve.

The BMR red polyurethane bushings used on the trailing arm inner bushing are a 95 durometer bushing. BMR uses this bushing durometer on many of our bushing designs. The higher the number, the stiffer the bushing.

DMS:
What durometer does Pedders offer in their trailing arm bushings?
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
With all respect, you should know that the trailing arm bushing that is in the knuckle is absolutely NOT a spherical or rose jointed bushing as Holden calls it. The lower and upper control arm bushings at the knuckle are the bushing you are talking about. My discussion is ONLY related to the outer toe link and the outer trailing arm. Jordan, you should know this!!!!


mike
dms
Ah...yes. My mistake. You are correct. This is precisely why Pfadt includes poly replacement bushings for both inner and outer trailing arm locations, with our rear trailing arm kit. Jordan does not work for Pfadt any longer.
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