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Old 07-24-2007, 08:26 AM   #1
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U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!

In case you didn't see it.....

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...o-ar40091.html

I especially love this line....

"That Toyota recalled more cars in the United States than it sold last year and that the Tundra has been a complete bust is conveniently ignored in the effort to trash Detroit as stupid an arrogant."

Never been a Toyota fan, never will. I've never liked the Tundra and thought it was easily the ugliest pickup on the market, but never thought quality issues that cause recalls would be their problem....glad to see it.

All I can say is buy American...buy GM is even better, but at a minimum, buy American.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:43 AM   #2
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Wow I didn't realize Toyota was going down like that. That makes me sad in my pants.

Toyota was always my second favorite import to Nissan, but I haven't been involved with any new Toyotas (or had anyone close to me involved in them either) so have been ignorant on quality with them lately.

That's really too bad.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:25 AM   #3
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thank god for gm !!!!!!
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:54 AM   #4
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I don't personally like to bash the foreign Companys. You all know I hate them, but I don't bring it up in every conversation, you know?

It really surprises me that Toyota - the legendary "resale value" - is having that many quality issues. True, they don't & can't make 'em like we do. But, Wow. It'll be ineresting to see if they actually drop back down to no. 2...I mean this news, and GM's turnaround... Interesting.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:56 AM   #5
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You do realize that Toyota and Nissan are more domestic than Chevy and Ford, right?
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:01 AM   #6
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........I'm not going to start that argument again.:p
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:11 AM   #7
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While I am no means anti-American made, Toyota products are reliable. Just like GM, they have long track records and its undeniable that they hold their value. That being said YES I own an 05 Tacoma, and it has yet to have any issues, it gets its maintenance just like my Dodge. The article posted is nothing more than brand bashing with a few minor slanted facts to back it up.

Finally, I understand brand loyalty. I do not understand brand bashing. Competition is good, if it means that GM has to produce a better product at a better price then fine. (oh and the whole economic argument is BS life isn't fair, business isn't fair)

PS. Yes the tundra is crap, and I hated thier advertising campaign for it. It took consumers lack of knowledge to boost its claims in performance and features.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:13 PM   #8
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My post wasn't intended to be a "brand bashing" thing....I was more "brand bragging" if you will about GM taking back the #1 spot. I'm a GM fan, plain and simple.

I don't really bash other brands, because when it comes down to it, almost every brand makes a decent to good product.

It just always got me when people would say, I buy a Toyota because I can put 250,000 miles on it before it dies. You can do that with a Bimmer, a Volkswagen, a Ford, a Chevy, any brand, if you maintain it properly.

That was more of a problem with Toyota-ists rather than the company, but still....

I will say that I was suprised that quality issues are becoming a problem for Toyota. I don't like them myself, but they always seem to be in the top 2 or 3 for quality awards.

I still say buy American. And while Toyotas and Hondas are made here in the USA, that doesn't mean they are American. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are all foreign companies. BMW builds numerous vehicles here in the US, but no one ever claims they are a "US Company". GM builds cars (does anyone remember the F-bodies...lol) in Canada, but they aren't Canadian. Ford and GM both build cars in Mexico, but are they Mexican companies? Way too many examples to list all of them. It's pretty easy to decide. Where is corporate HQ? Not North American HQ or Europe HQ....Corporate.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:56 PM   #9
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You know, it's been A LONG time since our last public "discussion" about this, guys. And I've had a lot of time to think about it.

I want EVERYBODY to know I like GM best, all the way, hands down, okay? Okay.

Frankly, GM is no longer an "American Company". It is an "American Based Company"...still means the same thing, pretty much, but there is a difference. GM is, and has been a global Company, Britain, Australia, India...and more. So saying that the Foriegn car companys need to leave the US (like I have, for so, so long.), is pretty much the epitomy of Hipocracy. Because GM is in other foriegn countrys much like Toyota is in ours.

So badging a car with a nationality, still applys. Depending on where the Company is originally from. It's the same as the nationality of humans. No matter where your "born", you still have roots to somewhere else, and that's what you are!

What I will say, is this: I don't care if GM is the #1 Global car company, because if toyota sells in China, too, then they've got us beat already. China (population) is HUGE. However, as long as GM is #1 in the US, Which I think it is safe to say is true, Then I'm happy.

I will also say, that I still think Toyota and Nissan, and the rest, need to back off a little. It's not fair that they're getting these rumored tax breaks to be here, and our own companys aren't.

Then, after saying that...The fact that GM is still "no. 2", and will remain at least that (what other competition for the top to they have?), is a reflection of how great they really are as a company...overcoming the tax breaks they don't get, and the China population factor - and still staying on top. Cause let's face it folks, "on top" is a figure of speech in this instance: GM and Toyota are virtually equals, we're talking hundreds, or thousands of cars difference that make Toyota "# 1"...they're both #1, but there can't be a tie in the books.

Toyota is a Good company, but honestly, and we all know it, GM is better. Toyota has the wind at it's back, and GM is swimming against the current, yet they are still tied.

To put it in Camaro terms. It's the equivilant to this: The Camaro isn't the best Car in the World, but it's still up there. What more can you ask for?
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerF View Post
You do realize that Toyota and Nissan are more domestic than Chevy and Ford, right?
Banging head on keyboard, Banging head on keyboard, Banging head on keyboard...

Seriously, stop posting when your “HIGH”.

Time to go back to research school Billy…
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerF View Post
You do realize that Toyota and Nissan are more domestic than Chevy and Ford, right?
Not too sure about that.
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
........I'm not going to start that argument again.:p

Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28 View Post
Banging head on keyboard, Banging head on keyboard, Banging head on keyboard...

Seriously, stop posting when your “HIGH”.

Time to go back to research school Billy…
:eek: Uh oh.... *closes eyes*


Speaking of banging your head on a keyboard...Could this be described as how you feel???
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:47 AM   #12
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Speaking of banging your head on a keyboard...Could this be described as how you feel???


Yep, I can only imagine that’s how you’ve felt these past few days…
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:07 AM   #13
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Yep, I can only imagine that’s how you’ve felt these past few days…
Yep. So I went looking and stole these for use along w/ the other smilies....
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:22 AM   #14
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Tag, why is this the wrong forum? I put it in the off topic discussions forum. Should I have put this somewhere else?

Oh, and I didn't intend to start the whole "what's US made and what isn't" argument. Sorry.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:38 AM   #15
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Bottom line is if you purchase an American made vehicle, even if it was made in Mexico or Canada, you support more US based jobs. I've heard ratios of anywhere from 6:1 to 15:1. That is if you buy a Chevy, Buick you've essentially helped employ 6 US citizens, whereas if you buy a Toyota, Honda, etc, you would only benefit 1 US employee. Assembly is just 1 small portion of the entire manufacturing process. Just cause it's put together here does not make it an American vehicle.

I've always been and always will be pro USA. But, hey it's a free country, thanks primarily to our military past and present, so we can say and buy whatever the hell we want!

USA #1.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:54 AM   #16
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Tag, why is this the wrong forum? I put it in the off topic discussions forum. Should I have put this somewhere else?

Oh, and I didn't intend to start the whole "what's US made and what isn't" argument. Sorry.
No buddy...I never said this was the wrong forum. I apologize, but I kinda got off topic. Killer knows how I've been trying to get folks to post in the proper forum and to not double post, read threads before posting, etc. I was just showing him new smilies I'm going to start using. Your thread belongs here in the off topic forum.

Anything 5th Gen related belongs in the top two boxes (General discussion and media forums) on the main forums page. Everything else belongs below in the members section.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:27 PM   #17
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Got it......thanks for the info.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:37 PM   #18
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Disclaimer again: I'm 100% supportive of the big-3, GM most of all naturally, but I can't help but scrutinize.

I'm totally ok with being ignorant and wrong, and I have no facts about it, just the little bit I know, so please, I'd love links to support for an argument against. But I look at it like this.

Not too many GMs, or Fords, are MADE state-side anymore. Sure, teh HQ is here...which means...a few admin and exec jobs, but the factory where they are built and the parts that are built for them are not here. THAT'S where Nissan, Toyota, BMW, etc, are getting my over the big 3 right now.

The argument of "well that money's going to overseas companies" only goes so far...the PAYCHECKS are staying here, giving Americans jobs. I respect that more than the big-3 outsourcing the jobs and only the execs reap the money from it.

Just my opinion, maybe I'm completely wrong.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:16 PM   #19
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Disclaimer again: I'm 100% supportive of the big-3, GM most of all naturally, but I can't help but scrutinize.

I'm totally ok with being ignorant and wrong, and I have no facts about it, just the little bit I know, so please, I'd love links to support for an argument against. But I look at it like this.

Not too many GMs, or Fords, are MADE state-side anymore. Sure, teh HQ is here...which means...a few admin and exec jobs, but the factory where they are built and the parts that are built for them are not here. THAT'S where Nissan, Toyota, BMW, etc, are getting my over the big 3 right now.
The argument of "well that money's going to overseas companies" only goes so far...the PAYCHECKS are staying here, giving Americans jobs. I respect that more than the big-3 outsourcing the jobs and only the execs reap the money from it.

Just my opinion, maybe I'm completely wrong.
Merf, the assembly process is just on step in building a vehicle. Most of GM vehicles have more than 50% of their parts made in the U.S. then shipped to the plants in Canada and Mexico for final assembly… Whereas, Toyota and Nissan are still importing up to 90% + of their parts to be “assemble” in U.S. plants (Now how can that be clamed as “Made in the U.S.”???). There is a tread on this topic with the percentage of actual “Made in the U.S.” data of almost every major car companies. Can’t find it at the moment…

Just because it’s assembled in the U.S. does not mean the parts where made here…
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:09 PM   #20
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hey guys sorry but i got to stend up for toyota cus even tho i was born with chevy blood i use to have a toyota tundra and that thing was wonderful. it has 167000 miles on it and never gave me proboblems. and im not gonna lie some time in miss that thing. never the less LONG LIVE CHEVY!!!!
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