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Old 08-02-2007, 09:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post
I thought I read somewhere that GM still has a surplus of LS2's and will most likely use those for the '09 Camaro. The '08 vette has the 6.2 LS3. Now they may upgrade the vette for '09 and throw that LS3 in the Camaro SS. Sounds right.
Either way, I plan to buy the Camaro when it's released. If GM plants a significantly more powerful engine in later models, I'll just trade the '09 in.
Actually that kinda makes alot of sense and wouldn't sound to far fetched. LS2 or LS3...doesn't make a difference to me cause when i own one of these cars the only time it's gonna see a drag strip is when it's sitting in the parking lot of one.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:56 AM   #19
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Okey, couple things. "If" they go with the LS2, I wondering from the stuff I've read about it, it always says Recommended fuel- Premium Unleaded, now if you use Regular will that harm the engine or just lower the horse power? 'Cause premium's to damn expensive up here.
Second thing, (not really important, just curious) if they went with the LS2 for the first year, would that give the Camaro more/ less value in the long run being a rare engine for that model year?
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:06 PM   #20
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87 is a joke, I never use anything less than at least 92 in my cars. I'd like to use 94 but Florida only seems to have 93.

As far as the Camaro's resell value, if you look at the '04-'06 GTO's and some of the '00-'02 Trans Am's, they're holding their value well. Trans Am's with an average of about $18,000 and GTO's ave. $25,000. Kelley might post less if you sell it out right.
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:23 PM   #21
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87 is a joke, I never use anything less than at least 92 in my cars. I'd like to use 94 but Florida only seems to have 93.
Just so you know, if you're running a higher octane in an engine than it needs, you are robbing yourself of both power and efficiency.

I can give you the reasons why if you're curious. Don't feel like typing it all out right now. 93 Octane is not "cleaner" or better in any way, it just burns differently.
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Old 08-02-2007, 01:50 PM   #22
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93 Octane is not "cleaner" or better in any way, it just burns differently.
I don't know how that could be...

Not based on my experience. Put 87 in a Honda, Nissan or Toyota and see if it continues to start everytime. When you're done cranking the engine for 20 minutes, try the higher octanes and see if that makes a difference. I've been through fuel line freeze up, poor acceleration, knocking and pinging and just plain not starting. Plus, some stations even use detergents in their fuel to help keep your fuel system cleaner. I'd say that's better than not...
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:48 PM   #23
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I put 87 in my Dodge and Toyota constantly, absolutely no difference in performance or reliability. If your tuning for racing or building a cutting edge engine octane matters but otherwise the fuel is fuel to properly working engines and fuel systems.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:20 PM   #24
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Ok, more power to ya, but it doesn't work in my car-- learned that the hard way. Anyway, back on topic. How 'bout those LS2's?
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:44 PM   #25
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This could be a huge-alternate thread, so I won't get started, but put simply, higher octane allows the engine to run greater amounts of timing advance without knock.

Octane by definition is a fuels resistance to detonation (AKA knock). Most cars are DESIGNED for 87 octane, so they just don't advance the timing any further than that fuel requires ( and thus don't reap the benefit in power and efficiency it affords).

Now, cars that are DESIGNED for high-octane fuels (ESPECIALLY turbo and supercharged cars) NEED high octane fuel to achieve the performance they are rated at. If you use lower octane fuels they engine computer will pull back timing to prevent detonation, and as a result you won't get the power or mileage that you expect.

If your car calls for high octane fuel, then using it will benefit you and the car (and don't think you'll save money by using low octance fuel... the reduction in mileage as a result of the reduced timing will MORE than outweigh the difference in fuel price).

In short, use what the manufacturer recommends! They kind of know what they're doing!

Oh, and I want the LS3... screw the L76 and all its truck based hardware! Corvette power if I can get it!

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Old 08-02-2007, 04:07 PM   #26
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The octane number we refer to as "87,89,92" are actual precentages. Simply put, a percentage of how much Octane is in the fuel. Exp: 87 gas is 87% octane and 13% heptane.

What these numbers mean is the higher the number, the higher the octane concentration, the higher the compression ratio(octane can handle compression better than Heptane), or its ability to be compressed before "self" detenation(due to the pressure).

Knocking occurs when you have early detenation during the compression stage due to low octane gas in a "high octane engine". So 87 is not really worse than 89 or 92, but gas station "A" may have higher quality fuel than station "B".

Unless my memory isnt working today thats a simple explination. Feel free to correct me if I am innacurate.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:16 PM   #27
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Pretty accurate JMROD.

To add to it, the a higher octane fuel NEEDS more pressure/heat to burn clean. So if your engine is NOT running well with higher octane in it...it probably doesn't need it.

If you're 1983 Honda doesn't run well with 87 so you have to put higher octane in it, it's not because the higher fuel is better, it's because something in your engine is broken and needs to be tuned.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:49 PM   #28
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If you're 1983 Honda doesn't run well with 87 so you have to put higher octane in it, it's not because the higher fuel is better, it's because something in your engine is broken and needs to be tuned.
You're generalizing and making a bad assumption. I just had a relative complain about the same thing in her '07 CRV. She was using 87 and started experiencing starting problems. The vehicle was under warranty, she took it back and the technicians couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. Their computer was saying that no problems had been recorded. They did however offer advice about the fuel... imagine that.

Hey look, it's not that big of a deal. If you want to put that crap in your engine-- go ahead.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:57 PM   #29
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True, I was being slightly sarcastic....but only slightly.

If I went to Honda with my brand new CRV, and the manual rates it at 87 Octane, and they tell me they can't fix the problem my ECU is having keeping the engine running, so I have to pay an extra 10-20 cents to the gallon per tank of gas...I'd be raising hell, especially this day and age!
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:35 PM   #30
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The octane number we refer to as "87,89,92" are actual precentages. Simply put, a percentage of how much Octane is in the fuel. Exp: 87 gas is 87% octane and 13% heptane.

What these numbers mean is the higher the number, the higher the octane concentration, the higher the compression ratio(octane can handle compression better than Heptane), or its ability to be compressed before "self" detenation(due to the pressure).

Knocking occurs when you have early detenation during the compression stage due to low octane gas in a "high octane engine". So 87 is not really worse than 89 or 92, but gas station "A" may have higher quality fuel than station "B".

Unless my memory isnt working today thats a simple explination. Feel free to correct me if I am innacurate.

This is pretty accurate... a very detailed description is here:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating>

The only difference I would add to your description is that the Octane rating you read on the pump is an equivalence-to-measured-percentage rating. I.E. the 92 Octane gas you are buying has the equivalent knock-performance of a fuel composed of 92% ISO-OCTANE and 8% HEPTANE.

Also, the US publishes an average octane number, comprised of the RON and MON ratings... but you can read more about this after the link.

Anyway, I know that in my MINI Cooper S (Supercharged Inline 4) I lose about 40hp using 87 vs. 94 Octane fuel (on a chassis dyno). And it runs like sh!t... but conversely it doesn't like to start when its cold on high octane fuel (ECU is a sh!tty design, and can't compensate at startup... damn british electronics! :-) ) I'd rather a rough cold-idle over the loss of performance! It's had 94 since they day it was delivered!

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Old 08-02-2007, 05:45 PM   #31
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I'm not trying to pick on you Eisenhower, You just made a few points that ...well, didn't seem that sharp to me...(get it points; and sharp...get it ) Not really that was a joke... Really, I just wanted some clarification on some of your posts...

Quote:
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87 is a joke, I never use anything less than at least 92 in my cars. I'd like to use 94 but Florida only seems to have 93.
What kind of cars do you have that they all need 92 or higher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post
As far as the Camaro's resell value, if you look at the '04-'06 GTO's and some of the '00-'02 Trans Am's, they're holding their value well. Trans Am's with an average of about $18,000 and GTO's ave. $25,000. Kelley might post less if you sell it out right.
That's really good! i didn't realize they re-sold that well. Especially the Trans Am's; after 6 years they still sell that high!

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I don't know how that could be...

Not based on my experience. Put 87 in a Honda, Nissan or Toyota and see if it continues to start everytime. When you're done cranking the engine for 20 minutes, try the higher octanes and see if that makes a difference. I've been through fuel line freeze up, poor acceleration, knocking and pinging and just plain not starting. Plus, some stations even use detergents in their fuel to help keep your fuel system cleaner. I'd say that's better than not...
I never knew that Toyotas' Nissans or Honda's required high-grade gasoline to start Well...

And fuel with Additives CAN be good, but put too much crap in, and it's not all that good anymore. The cleaners can do more harm then good in some cars. I don't know which specifically, I just know that happens.



And as for the question that started this really moot argument. If a manufacturer "suggests", or "reccomends", a high-grade fuel, you'd probably be alright using a lower grade. It may rob some power, but not enough to be noticed. NOT ALWAYS, THOUGH. If the manuf. "requires" a certain fuel-grade. You'd be asking for trouble putting any lower-grade fuel in there.

My '79 reccomends 91 octane. But it'll run fine on 87, no knocking, pinging, or even any detectable power-loss.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:21 PM   #32
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Ha! You know, in all fairness I had a Lumina that I ran on nothing but 87, why? 'cause it was cheap. I think most people use 87 because it's the cheapest. I had no problems at all. I drove it all over the city, to work- whatever.
Later, I bought a '95 Acura Legend (nice car) that absolutely refused to start on anything less than 10 cranks and 20 minutes of sitting using 87. A mechanic actually recommended I start using better gas, so I tried it. Suddenly, I stopped have issues with the starting and life was good again. BUT, it could be the quality of gas at a particular gas station, as was mentioned.

Now, I'm def. not an advocate of using pricier grades of petroleum. All I can tell you is what I experienced. But then again, who really cares? I'd rather talk about the LS2-LS3
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:41 AM   #33
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Now, I'm def. not an advocate of using pricier grades of petroleum. All I can tell you is what I experienced. But then again, who really cares? I'd rather talk about the LS2-LS3
Works for me!
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:39 PM   #34
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I know that this has been discussed in great detail before, but, what is the difference in the L76 and the LS3. Everyone is making it sound like the L76 engine is not the one I want in my new Camaro. I want the new Camaro as bad as anyone, but do not want to trade it in after only one year to get the bigger/better engine. I am looking for thee 400+ HP engine that everone has been talking about. DAMN GM, give us a bone to chew, we need information.
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