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Old 11-14-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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Even if they do file bankruptcy it doesn't mean the end of GM or the scheduled Camaro. It just gives them leeway to satisfy/reorganize their debt and restructure the company. It isn't the beginning of the end necessarily.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:39 PM   #19
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Close call

As the postponement of the conv. shows, I don't think we realize how close we came to loseing the Camaro. It was the last GM product to be approved for final production, only because it would have cost more to scrap than to keep pressing forward and the enormous PR hit that it would have taken scrapping such a attintion grabbing car. We should all feel very lucky, and still hold our breath that there is a company to make it. I don't doubt that GM wills survive, but I have no idea how it will pull it off!
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:52 PM   #20
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There could be a silver lining to this cloud. Think about it....it the convertible will not be coming up in the next year or two to "freshen up" the line....maybe you will see a Z28 sooner.

Its a lot cheaper to retool for switching to an optional engine and a few suspension parts than it is to retool for all the different/top/interior/body components that would require crash test certification as well as big design and production costs.

Hmmmm.....
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
As I've stated previously yesterday, everyone should go outside and look at all of the cars on the road. How many of them are convertibles? That's right—not enough for GM to make it their number one priority. Would you rather have a 2010 Camaro convertible or a company, GM, that can make your convertible years from now? I think GM wants to stay alive more than it wants to make a convertible for a couple of months and go bankrupt.
QFT!!!

In a small town of about 5,000 you can count the amount of convert's I see in a day on one hand.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:51 PM   #22
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Good thing my hartops on order already
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:05 PM   #23
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Scott????? is this true?

I thought the announcment said from the beginning that the convertible would be 6 months to a year after the coupe debuted....

Go open any newspaper or listen to any news telecast...........

We MUST preserve a product lineup that includes many new products -- and you MUST invest the few dollars that you have on volume products that replenish the bank account.

The convertible is NOT cancelled, but it is most likely going to be delayed. Note I said "MOST LIKELY".......
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:04 PM   #24
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We MUST preserve a product lineup that includes many new products -- and you MUST invest the few dollars that you have on volume products that replenish the bank account.
I hope the head GM guys feel the same way, and act on this - soon! Hopefully GM will discontinue some of its SUV models, there are just too many, some that are nearly identical. For sake of example, say the Cruze would sell more than the Camaro vert. Then the Cruze should be put onto the market first, even if it means vert delays. Yeah I suppose it is easy for me, a coupe guy, to say that, but sometimes if you want your car you have to make sure the company that produces it will last that long. Again, just for example, if GM needs money to fund vert production, it could place the Cruze in front of it and use those profits to produce it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:05 PM   #25
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This will actually work out good for me. Now I can keep my new SS for a couple years and then get the convertible once it comes out in 2012. GM just got me to buy 2 new Camaro's instead of one !


I say the same. I got five years to pay back my 401K loan I got for this Camaro and if the convertible is delayed than it's a better chance for me to be able to get the convertible.

Guys and Gals, if you are really a Camaro fan, go out and get one now. Help GM stay in business and once GM is capable of offering the convertible both GM and the economy should be stable to get the convertible.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:07 PM   #26
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First no blue SS now this! Looks like my dreams for a blue w/ black striped SS convertible are years away again! Just going to have to settle for the coupe now. Although, that's not a bad thing to settle with, am i right!
Breath easy friend (well, easier anyway), the blue SS is coming, just a lil later: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9304
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:18 PM   #27
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I've been hearing that GM could file bankruptcy as soon as December, which is tragically thrre months too early, even for Camaro coupe... My fingers are crossed though, let's hope GM can pull through
Maybe I should go get me a Corvette. I pray GM doesn't go under but can you imagine how collectible a Corvette from GM's Last year would be. IN some countries, GM and USA are interchangeable.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:45 PM   #28
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Yeah. don't wait for the convertible, go out and buy an SS
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:59 PM   #29
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I know they say the Camaro Coupe will not be scrapped. I know they say production will start in February. Is there anything that can happen to change these two facts? Is it at all possible to start production early to help start cash flowing into the company?
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:51 PM   #30
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The way everyone is talking GM may be forced into bankruptcy. The tide to save the American car companies seems to be faltering.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:49 PM   #31
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oh come on....i blame the uaw and the union thugs ...I also blame c.a.f.e and all those government regulations for increasing the cost of making a vehicle and for having to crimp on quality to meet certain regulations

damn the unions i don't care who i offend its ridiculous that gm's labor costs are 60% more than toyota's and put some tariff's on the japanese cars...they have protectionist tariffs over there

how the heck does gm pay more for retired workers than their current workers...and gm shouldn't be a healthcare provider

screw the uaw seriously screw them
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:14 AM   #32
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Man that sucks..
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by chevydude26 View Post
oh come on....i blame the uaw and the union thugs ...I also blame c.a.f.e and all those government regulations for increasing the cost of making a vehicle and for having to crimp on quality to meet certain regulations

damn the unions i don't care who i offend its ridiculous that gm's labor costs are 60% more than toyota's and put some tariff's on the japanese cars...they have protectionist tariffs over there

how the heck does gm pay more for retired workers than their current workers...and gm shouldn't be a healthcare provider

screw the uaw seriously screw them
Well, there's more to it then that, but you are on the right track.
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by chevydude26 View Post
oh come on....i blame the uaw and the union thugs ...I also blame c.a.f.e and all those government regulations for increasing the cost of making a vehicle and for having to crimp on quality to meet certain regulations

damn the unions i don't care who i offend its ridiculous that gm's labor costs are 60% more than toyota's and put some tariff's on the japanese cars...they have protectionist tariffs over there

how the heck does gm pay more for retired workers than their current workers...and gm shouldn't be a healthcare provider

screw the uaw seriously screw them

mmmmmm......not quite that simple.

There is much blame to go around:

>no level playing field with the european union and Japan and Korea --

>additional government regulations...(WHY is it that we keep legislating more and more safety features - yet there is NO National Driver Education program in this country - there are a few states where you can actually get a driver's license by taking a written test -- and you don't actually have to get behind the wheel!)

>several emission standards rather than one National one

>Apathy by the American Public

>Glacial pace of change in the past

>Unwillingness of SOME locals to change.


............there are many more, but I'm afraid I'll bring down the server if I keep listing them.......


I know the Unions are upset with those of us in Salaried Positions - but what I don't think they realize is that we are expected to work anytime needed -- with nothing like overtime -- we are 'exempt' -- we make the same money if we work 40 hours a week (I don't remember ever working 'only' 40 hours a week...) or 90 hours a week.......most of us are not 'bonus' level -- and those that are have no bonuses anymore.....we pay for the privilege of a company car.....we have sizable co-pays on our insurance (I pay over $200 a month for my heart medications) .....further, as we downsize, we take on the responsibilities of other people -- (i.e. at one time there was an an Exhibit Manager and an assistant Exhibit Manager for every Division - and Chevy had two -- one for cars, one for trucks........I'm now doing Chevy/Cad/Hummer/Saab -- and no assistants......and you know, if that's what I need to do to keep us competitive, so be it.....)

I, for one, believe (and this is my opinion...) that we SHOULD pay good wages to our laborers - because, you see, the money they make goes back into the economy.


Someone on another site said: " F*** 'em! make 'em give back 30% of their wages..........

OK.

Now - think about that.

Let's take Lordstown/Warren/Youngstown Ohio - what do you suppose would happen if we take that percentage away from our workers?

Massive foreclosures.
Local economy takes a hit
Vacation industry gets slapped
etc
etc
etc

................see, it isn't quite that easy.

What IS problematic is that the big three have, as I recall, north of 2 million retirees -- whereas Toyota has less than 600 --

OK.......now THAT'S competitive..........

There is no easy answer.

In closing...think about this:

>We won world war II by outproducing the enemy.

>The Wall Street Journal and other business periodicals credit GM with saving the economy after 9/11 --

........and yet so many Americans hate the big three.............and this, my friends, is Shameful.
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