Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HeadlightArmor
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-15-2008, 10:30 AM   #43
SemperFi
U.S. Marine Corps
 
SemperFi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Ducati Streetfighter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG UR IT View Post
Very sad to hear this about the vert...

I know it will have its day...it'll just take time.

Now...I don't think I'll ever buy a foreign car again. Obviously, there is just too much at stake. It seems we keep pouring our money OUT of the country rather than trying to keep it IN....and in sooooo many more ways than by just buying an american made vehicle.

I WANT to help GM. I WANT to see GM succeed. Shoot...I want the BIG THREE to succeed. I'm going to do my part by buying the 2SS/RS in less than half a year. Just keep my baby coming GM and I'll gladly take her home.

Meanwhile....I'll keep spreading the word. I now have 2 Sergeants and another patrol officer interested....along w/ the others and the list is growing.

Spread the word, folks. If you know anyone looking to buy a car, HELP THEM HELP US. We need to be self sufficient!!! This is only ONE part of being self sufficient. Help your friend buy a new car from one of the big 3...and preferably from GM!!!
Exaclty. I have already convinced 3 classmates that the new camaro is the car to have. Also working on some teachers. Id been talking about the SS i am going to get for a while. but when i told them they could have their camaro for 23K, their eyes bulged.
Both of the cars ive driven are foreign. There wont be another.
__________________

Texas Residents: Join the Texas social group!

Semper Fi!
SemperFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 12:25 PM   #44
fbodfather


 
fbodfather's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros................
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI (suburban Detroit)
Posts: 4,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Well said. However just because you don't support the bailout doesn't mean you hate the big three. It just means you have a different ideology or think you have a better way to fix the situation. The government is going to help the retiree's and health benefits of GM while a bailout will probably happen if GM is still in trouble once Obama comes into office. However what price or what freedoms will we be giving up as American's because of the conditions that such a large bailout would require that is written by Democrats. More standards that make it even harder for larger more powerful engines to meet without penalties that the buyer has to incur in the form of taxes. How long will the bailout last before another is needed? The answer lies somewhere in between where both parties would like to take this situation. One thing is for certain, a lot of prayer and hard work is what is going to keep GM alive and running after the Government helps pay for benefits and salaries that no longer can be met at the current production level. And I will keep praying and as a loyal GM customer with 2 GM vehicles and one on the order I will continue to do my part..

VERY good point......you are correct in that if a person doesn't agree with the government loan -- it does not necessarily mean they hate GM or Ford or Chrysler.

I should have been clearer.........my point - and you are correct -- I wasn't real clear - is that there ARE those that are spouting vile things about the big three -- no company is perfect and there IS lots of blame to go around.

The PROBLEM is that too many people see themselves as "experts" -- and they spout off with 'facts' that are, indeed, incorrect or completely taken out of context.

There are an incredible amount of people saying along the lines of "...GM hasn't changed, they won't change -- and it's only a matter of time."

People -- I am here in the flesh to tell you that GM HAS CHANGED.......there IS a plan to get thru this -- the amount of change in the past 4 years is staggering.........but understand that change is tough -- it's costly, and it's risky (among other things...) and I hate to say this one more time - but the playing field is not level.
fbodfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 12:58 PM   #45
Justcallme61
 
Drives: 2000 honda accord v6
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
VERY good point......you are correct in that if a person doesn't agree with the government loan -- it does not necessarily mean they hate GM or Ford or Chrysler.

I should have been clearer.........my point - and you are correct -- I wasn't real clear - is that there ARE those that are spouting vile things about the big three -- no company is perfect and there IS lots of blame to go around.

The PROBLEM is that too many people see themselves as "experts" -- and they spout off with 'facts' that are, indeed, incorrect or completely taken out of context.

There are an incredible amount of people saying along the lines of "...GM hasn't changed, they won't change -- and it's only a matter of time."

People -- I am here in the flesh to tell you that GM HAS CHANGED.......there IS a plan to get thru this -- the amount of change in the past 4 years is staggering.........but understand that change is tough -- it's costly, and it's risky (among other things...) and I hate to say this one more time - but the playing field is not level.
Scott once again reassuring us that everything will be alright. What would we do without you
Justcallme61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 02:19 PM   #46
fastball
White 'n Nerdy
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS 6MT ordered
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
There are an incredible amount of people saying along the lines of "...GM hasn't changed, they won't change -- and it's only a matter of time."

People -- I am here in the flesh to tell you that GM HAS CHANGED.......there IS a plan to get thru this -- the amount of change in the past 4 years is staggering.........but understand that change is tough -- it's costly, and it's risky (among other things...) and I hate to say this one more time - but the playing field is not level.
Scott, those of us who follow things closely know that GM has changed, but unfortunately the vast majority of people who have sworn GM off don't.

That's why I really belive, and really hope, your PR department comes up with a serious campaign to go directly at those who have such ire for GM.

I don't know if you read my post from another thread, but basically GM should have some real advertising going after people who still think GM is garbage. I think GM needs a massive add campaign. Not showing a Cobalt zipping around advertising a $199.00/month lease, but a serious, direct, and point blank campaign.

Something like this: No music, no flashy graphics, just Bob Lutz walking toward the camera with a red 1959 Eldorado and a red 2009 CTS-V on both sides of him. Have him point out that in the time those two cars had been produced, GM had lost their way in design and quality, but have gotten it back in a big way. I think you would open alot of people's ears who currently drive Toyotas if he said "over the past 30 years, GM has made product choices which have hurt you, our customer, and our beloved country. If you owned a GM product 10+ years ago, we sincerely appologize if it might not have given you the satisfaction you expected. We've also talked better quality in the past but didn't quite deliver. Well, those days are over at GM. That is the past, and while we understand your frustration with our past products, you are depriving yourself from a fantastic, rewarding driving and ownership experience by not visiting a GM dealership. Today, our engineering and design is second to none, with attention to details, reliability, and overall product quality surpasing what is offered from our competitors, foreign or domestic. We have the most sophisticated and highest quality assembly lines in the industry, and our engineers are the most brilliant we've had since (as he points back to the Eldorado) this classic was produced. We invite you to take a serious look at GM products. See what you've been missing."

As the picture fades, bring up the blue square and underneat it all GM division symbols. A voiceover (I hear James Earl Jones in my head) says "General Motors. Now, more than ever, America's mark of excellence"

Poinient, humble, and direct.

Get Lutz to get personal with America. Lee Iacocca did in the 80's with Chrysler and his personal appeals in comercials and it helped get them out of the red. He became a household name and Chryslers started flying out of dealers.

I'm not a commercial writer, but I think something along those lines would go a long way in getting Toyota owners back into GM dealerships
fastball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 09:25 PM   #47
SemperFi
U.S. Marine Corps
 
SemperFi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Ducati Streetfighter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastball View Post
Scott, those of us who follow things closely know that GM has changed, but unfortunately the vast majority of people who have sworn GM off don't.

That's why I really belive, and really hope, your PR department comes up with a serious campaign to go directly at those who have such ire for GM.

I don't know if you read my post from another thread, but basically GM should have some real advertising going after people who still think GM is garbage. I think GM needs a massive add campaign. Not showing a Cobalt zipping around advertising a $199.00/month lease, but a serious, direct, and point blank campaign.

Something like this: No music, no flashy graphics, just Bob Lutz walking toward the camera with a red 1959 Eldorado and a red 2009 CTS-V on both sides of him. Have him point out that in the time those two cars had been produced, GM had lost their way in design and quality, but have gotten it back in a big way. I think you would open alot of people's ears who currently drive Toyotas if he said "over the past 30 years, GM has made product choices which have hurt you, our customer, and our beloved country. If you owned a GM product 10+ years ago, we sincerely appologize if it might not have given you the satisfaction you expected. We've also talked better quality in the past but didn't quite deliver. Well, those days are over at GM. That is the past, and while we understand your frustration with our past products, you are depriving yourself from a fantastic, rewarding driving and ownership experience by not visiting a GM dealership. Today, our engineering and design is second to none, with attention to details, reliability, and overall product quality surpasing what is offered from our competitors, foreign or domestic. We have the most sophisticated and highest quality assembly lines in the industry, and our engineers are the most brilliant we've had since (as he points back to the Eldorado) this classic was produced. We invite you to take a serious look at GM products. See what you've been missing."

As the picture fades, bring up the blue square and underneat it all GM division symbols. A voiceover (I hear James Earl Jones in my head) says "General Motors. Now, more than ever, America's mark of excellence"

Poinient, humble, and direct.

Get Lutz to get personal with America. Lee Iacocca did in the 80's with Chrysler and his personal appeals in comercials and it helped get them out of the red. He became a household name and Chryslers started flying out of dealers.

I'm not a commercial writer, but I think something along those lines would go a long way in getting Toyota owners back into GM dealerships
Brilliance
__________________

Texas Residents: Join the Texas social group!

Semper Fi!
SemperFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 10:24 PM   #48
cactus_man
 
Drives: Chevy Silverado
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Overland Park
Posts: 49
I agree with everyone else...not that simple...but...solving the union problem would put GM on track to being profitable. People think GM is dead already but they still sell more cars than those perfect lil Toyota guys do. Plus people still think of GM as they were in the 90's...if it doesn't have a v-8 then its pretty much junk and ugly interiors.....but if you have been near any of their new products there amazing!

Three Things GM MUST DO:
1) re-work /scrap/weaken union deals to make them competitive with Toyotas non-union workers. I am sorry, GM's union worker do no better than Toyotas union guys.

2) Cut un-profitable dealers that just fight each other. When you can stand on the roof of a chevy dealer and see another one, then there is a few to many of them around.

3) Cut Hummer...or move it into the Chevy dealership kind of the way Scion is in a Toyota dealership. Hummer can be a ninch brand but having their own dealership, not even close.
cactus_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 11:59 PM   #49
HeatherR
 
HeatherR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 CTS, 2008 Solstice GXP
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
mmmmmm......not quite that simple.

There is much blame to go around:

>no level playing field with the european union and Japan and Korea --

>additional government regulations...(WHY is it that we keep legislating more and more safety features - yet there is NO National Driver Education program in this country - there are a few states where you can actually get a driver's license by taking a written test -- and you don't actually have to get behind the wheel!)

>several emission standards rather than one National one

>Apathy by the American Public

>Glacial pace of change in the past

>Unwillingness of SOME locals to change.


............there are many more, but I'm afraid I'll bring down the server if I keep listing them.......


I know the Unions are upset with those of us in Salaried Positions - but what I don't think they realize is that we are expected to work anytime needed -- with nothing like overtime -- we are 'exempt' -- we make the same money if we work 40 hours a week (I don't remember ever working 'only' 40 hours a week...) or 90 hours a week.......most of us are not 'bonus' level -- and those that are have no bonuses anymore.....we pay for the privilege of a company car.....we have sizable co-pays on our insurance (I pay over $200 a month for my heart medications) .....further, as we downsize, we take on the responsibilities of other people -- (i.e. at one time there was an an Exhibit Manager and an assistant Exhibit Manager for every Division - and Chevy had two -- one for cars, one for trucks........I'm now doing Chevy/Cad/Hummer/Saab -- and no assistants......and you know, if that's what I need to do to keep us competitive, so be it.....)

I, for one, believe (and this is my opinion...) that we SHOULD pay good wages to our laborers - because, you see, the money they make goes back into the economy.


Someone on another site said: " F*** 'em! make 'em give back 30% of their wages..........

OK.

Now - think about that.

Let's take Lordstown/Warren/Youngstown Ohio - what do you suppose would happen if we take that percentage away from our workers?

Massive foreclosures.
Local economy takes a hit
Vacation industry gets slapped
etc
etc
etc

................see, it isn't quite that easy.

What IS problematic is that the big three have, as I recall, north of 2 million retirees -- whereas Toyota has less than 600 --

OK.......now THAT'S competitive..........

There is no easy answer.

In closing...think about this:

>We won world war II by outproducing the enemy.

>The Wall Street Journal and other business periodicals credit GM with saving the economy after 9/11 --

........and yet so many Americans hate the big three.............and this, my friends, is Shameful.
I can confirm that what Scott is saying in regards to the Youngstown, Ohio area-having grown up there (Boardman). If Lordstown Assembly were to close the entire area would be devestated! And this is not the only area of the country that has a Big 3 Plant that sustains it--they are scattered across the US (not just MI).

Also, that plant has already replaceed about 1500 UAW workers that are now hired in as "second-tier" and are paid about $14/hour and have a benefit package that is much different from past benefit packages--and they help pay for it! I left the area about five years ago, but have immediate family still there--and none of them are part of the UAW, so that is not why I am defending--I am only informing.

GM has made a lot of positive changes that are leading them to profitability, but they hit a perfect storm in the economy that is really hurting them now.

So, no matter where you live in the US/Ontario and whatever profession you are in you will all be negatively impacted if the Detroit 3 are allowed to fail--the tax base, costs of social programs, etc. will hurt everyone. I can assure you that no one is immune!
HeatherR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 02:22 AM   #50
RafCon
 
Drives: 2004 YZF-R1
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 93
I agree about buying American, and I have done anything but over the last decade because of past issues and concerns, but this thread is somewhat off topic now.

I WANT to buy a camaro convertible, and I do want the new camaro BADLY, but it doesn't make financial sense to buy the coupe now, and then sell it when the convertible finally hits the streets. I was doing the financially responsible thing and saving and waiting, but since they are telling me this thing is on hold again... well.... so are my dollars.

So does this make sense for a buyer like me? I know the vert is a smaller market car, but I happen to be in one of those markets where vert's are EVERYWHERE... and now, it looks like my return to The Big 3 will have to wait... this news, while understandable, is still no less disappointing and disheartening to those of use who wanted the convertible version of the new camaro.
RafCon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 07:50 AM   #51
classicrockr
Pills are for Pansies
 
classicrockr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2LT/RS Hyper Blue Vert Camaro
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richlands NC
Posts: 956
If you go to 5thgen.org, there is a similiar forum topic. The site owner has stated that

"Convertible always was scheduled for the second model year, so this is nothing new.
Neither the coupe or convertible are on hold or delayed in any way. The convertible will be released as planned, approximately 1 year after the coupe."

This guy, from what I undersand has worked /talked with Scott before, so what's the deal? Is the vert coming out in 2010 or not?

Previously, MT magazine made some incorrect statements, once 5thgen.org contacted them, they made corrections - here's what another member said about this:

"now you of all people should know better then to trust that rag.... i mean magazine. are they not the very same ones that misquoted and didnt want to give 5thgen credit until contacted?".

Here was the response to this comment:
"yeah, according to them, the camaro is a 2009 w/ an LS2"

This guy, from what I undersand has worked /talked with Scott before, so what's the deal? Is the vert coming out in 2010 or not?

Overall, I don't trust what MT mag is saying - I still believe the vert will be out mid 2010, like it was originally planned. Here's the website:

http://www.5thgen.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8984

Last edited by classicrockr; 11-16-2008 at 08:19 AM.
classicrockr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 08:48 PM   #52
68vert
 
68vert's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SIM SS/RS, 1968 RS convertible
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 744
"Get Lutz to get personal with America. Lee Iacocca did in the 80's with Chrysler and his personal appeals in comercials and it helped get them out of the red. He became a household name and Chryslers started flying out of dealers."




I will agree with this wholeheartedly. Make me notice you with good reason.
Make the flashy lights, shaky camera commercials if you must, but also produce one that appeals to common sense.

Hey, the CEO of Sprint is doing it. And I remember it for being a good commercial.

Guess I will wait a bit longer for a new Vert Camaro. O well, time to play with the 68 some more.
68vert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 08:26 PM   #53
Rodrunner
Senior Member
 
Rodrunner's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS/RS, '06 350Z
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So. Maryland
Posts: 2,333
Personally I'm not a proponent of "buy American" - regardless. I, like most, will buy what we determine to be the best product at the best price. And I don't think anyone at GM would have us do otherwise, because they have too much pride for that and they know they CAN compete.
But, like Scott said, it's not a level playing field, which makes it very difficult for them. I liken it to the government subsidies Airbus receives, putting Boeing at a distinct disadvantage in the commercial aircraft industry, and which they are now protesting before the WTO. It's not right...but PLEASE...no global economy...there HAS to be a better solution!!!!!

P.S. - A lot of older American companies are paying out a large number of pensions each month and still providing current workers good medical coverage, but NOT also paying each worker $150,000 a year salary($70+/hr). That's a part of the playing field that should be controllable but isn't. It's a shame.


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

Last edited by Rodrunner; 11-18-2008 at 10:44 AM. Reason: addition
Rodrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 05:31 PM   #54
jaymz
Just a waitin'
 
jaymz's Avatar
 
Drives: grand prix GT
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St Louis
Posts: 8
I'm sorry to say that I guess they will have to wait to get my money to help them through the tough times. I'm not buying until the drop top is out.
jaymz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2008, 01:59 AM   #55
mjwaldschm
 
mjwaldschm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2001 Camaro Convert
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 139
Send a message via AIM to mjwaldschm
Just trying to be patient . . . it will come

I too reside on the West Coast full of convertibles and cringe every time some guy in his newer generation mustang GT starts reviving his engine while eyeing my 01 vert. I've done nothing but talk about this car ever since it's debut in 2006. BUT I wil wait. As much as I would love to help GM's bottomline by placing an order for an SS w/sunroof as an alternative to my dream 5th gen vert. But if I settle and buy now I will in no way be able to afford the vert when it does eventually appear.

Lets just all keep positive and promote the Camaro line as much as possible. And Scott, thanks for all of the updates and information that we all know we can trust.

Still looking forward to the day the camaros show up in the show rooms so I can actually touch and feel one to know exactly all the options I want on mine!
mjwaldschm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 12:47 AM   #56
Mustang Buster
 
Mustang Buster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Mustang GT, 2000 Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 5
Howdy all, this is my first post, although I have been a long time lurker. First, I just don't get GM. Why is it taking so long for them to get the Camaro out in the first place? The new Mustang came out in 2005, and here they are now finally going to get it out as a 2010? Heck, it didn't take GM that long to counter the Mustang the first time around in 1964.5 I thought it was all set to come out after the big appearance in "Transformers" a few years ago?

Secondly, why are they going to delay the convertible? Are they really that far behind on engineering...well maybe that is why they can't get the Camaro out on time, but I just can't see why they would want to limit sales by not having it ready, since they have had years to do so. Can you tell I want a vert

I have always been a Chevy guy, Corvettes mostly, and I only by American, so when we had our two kids, I reluctantly sold my C5 Corvette and ordered a 2007 Mustang GT Premium Convertible, since the Camaro was not available. It was a great car, but alas, we got transferred to Kodiak, Alaska (I am a Coast Guard Helicopter Pilot), which is an island with hardly any roads. So because of that, and the lack of a garage in base housing, I sold the Mustang too since I couldn't stand to see it sit out in the snow and freezing rain.

Now I want to order a Camaro for when we return to the lower 48, but it has got to be a vert, so what gives GM? Sorry, rant off

-Buster

Mustang Buster is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CAMARO WIKI Tran Wiki 54 02-06-2016 11:33 AM
Popular Hotrodding article on new Camaro (+ sketches of Camaro convertible) Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 50 10-01-2010 10:25 AM
Detroit News panel wants GM to build Camaro concept Tran 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 12 03-15-2009 04:38 PM
UPCOMING CAMARO IMPORTANT DATES CamaroScotty 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 125 01-11-2009 12:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.