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Old 08-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #26
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In SSCA racing many classes prohibit the use of anything but an OE rotor. You'll see vette and Vipers tearing up the track with OE calipers, rotors and race compound pads. Cross drilled and slotted rotors are more of a fashion statement held over from the days when pads gassed so badly they reduced braking power. They do look really good.

If you car is going to see track duty, OE or plain faced rotors will do the job with a good race compound pad. I am a HUGE Cobalt Friction pad fan. I think they are the Gold Standard and all our Pedders track cars run on them. If you are never going to see the track slotted and cross drilled are fine. For the track my personal preference is plain face, but I certainly would not point and laugh at a slotted rotor for track use, but leave the cross drilled for the show circuit unless they are extremely high quality as you would find on a ZR1 or true exotic where the holes have been part of the original manufacturing process.
Just a couple of notes. Both J-Hook and slotted rotors are used in professional motorsports all over the world. I've seen a lot of plain-faced rotors as well, mostly in series that don't allow changes. The increased pad bite, especially from J-Hooks, is difficult to take away from the better drivers once he/she experiences the improvement.

Also, no rotors are made with cross-drilled holes as "part of the original manufacturing process". Without exception, they are all drilled -- yes, including those mythological Porsche rotors that are claimed to exist. The ZR-1 uses carbon-ceramic rotors, and those holes have been drilled as well (before siliconization anyway -- after that, they are almost as hard as diamonds!).

I do not recommend cross-drilled rotors for the track either. But J-Hooks and slots work VERY well (where allowed).

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Old 08-04-2010, 11:31 AM   #27
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Chris,

you are the brake maven, but you are dead wrong in this statement.

The ZR-1 uses carbon-ceramic rotors, and those holes have been drilled as well (before siliconization anyway -- after that, they are almost as hard as diamonds!).

That is ABSOLUTELY part of the manufacuring process and WHY THEY ARE SAFE FOR TRACK USE.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:06 PM   #28
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Chris,

you are the brake maven, but you are dead wrong in this statement.

The ZR-1 uses carbon-ceramic rotors, and those holes have been drilled as well (before siliconization anyway -- after that, they are almost as hard as diamonds!).

That is ABSOLUTELY part of the manufacuring process and WHY THEY ARE SAFE FOR TRACK USE.
Maybe we are misunderstanding each other? The CCM brakes on the ZR-1 are drilled after carbon vapor infiltration (when they are still carbon-carbon) and before final siliconization (where they get transformed to carbon-ceramic). After that, only grinding with special tools can be done. A drill doesn't stand a chance afterward -- it will walk and break. The holes are not laminated in, if that is what you are referring to.

Drilling carbon-carbon or carbon-ceramic does NOT induce stress risers like drilling iron does. They are completely different animals. If a "ceramic" rotor is OK'd for track use (not many are, by the way), drilling will not make any difference at all in longevity. In fact, it just might help at elevated temperatures to hold off oxidation (the REAL enemy of ceramic rotors) just a little bit longer. Ceramic rotors, if they ever were to crack (very unlikely), would no sooner crack at a hole location than not. It's a little weird that way, but what happens in iron is not applicable at all to ceramic.

Were you referring to something different?

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Old 08-04-2010, 04:57 PM   #29
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Here is the link to our current Camaro5 special brake promotion. The new J-Hooks will get a promotion of their own!!!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72700

As for anything having to do with brakes, even I defer to Chris
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:08 PM   #30
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damn man how quick do you want to stop.
mine I almost have to pull my teeth out of the dash when I nail the brakes
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:21 PM   #31
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damn man how quick do you want to stop.
mine I almost have to pull my teeth out of the dash when I nail the brakes
We like that! But we also like to make sure it can happen over and over and over with the same results. No sense investing money into a car if it does not instill 100% full confidence in all situations. The OE's just don't have the available budget to make that happen on any car that sells for less for $100k or so.

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Old 08-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #32
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Maybe we are misunderstanding each other?
Were you referring to something different?

Chris
People lives depend on brakes. All rotors are not created equal. A rotor like those found on the ZR1 were designed from conception to have holes or slots or whatever in them. They are manufactured for high heat use with the holes or slots or both. When you use them as designed they do not fail. They are as close to bullet proof as possible. You can use them as though your life depends on it and it does.

Blank rotors bought from who knows where and machined to look cool do not fit in the same paragraph or sentence as ZR1 rotors. They are smooth finish rotors that some one machined. They were NOT designed to be machined or maybe they were but how do you know? Were they treated properly in the manufacturing process to relive the stress created in the machining? Who knows.

Rotors are no different than any other metal. Companies cold bend sway bars and stop right there. They do not normalize the bar. They do not heat treat the bar they just bend them and ship them. So what? the chances of them breaking where they are stressed are minimal so we'll skip that step.

Anyone that buys a rotor that is NOT an OE rotor should exercise great care in the selection process. The should get confirmation that the rotor they choose is suitable for the way they intend to use it.

I have never met a racer who was in the midst of going off track that thought -- MAN AM I GLAD I BOUGHT THIS SUPER CHEAP HELMET FROM AN UNKOWN SELLER ON EBAY.

You buy the absolute BEST helmet you can afford. You buy the absolute BEST tires you can afford. You should buy the BEST rotors and pads you can afford. Your life depends on it. With brake rotors I'll say again what I said before -- leave the cross drilled for the show circuit unless they are extremely high quality as you would find on a ZR1 or true exotic where the holes or slots have been part of the original manufacturing process.

You know as well as I do exactly what I am talking about. I'll not name brands, but all rotors plain, slotted and or cross drilled rotors are not remotely the same in quality or in use. For my drivers safety, my family's safety and my safety, I'll take the OE rotor that has been extensively tested and validated over a bargain brand every time.

Would I ever use an aftermarket rotor? The answer would be yes, but I am VERY selective. I personally know the Joseph family at DBA and have used their rotors. I have used StopTech rotors. I have used what I'll refer to as premium brand-xes and will never use them again. Why? failures after three laps from warping into unstable, cracked after one ten lap session and I could go on.

There is no need to respond or turn this into a debate. I make NO money from any brake company. I have my opinion and you have yours. They seem to be different. There should be no hard feelings.
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:00 PM   #33
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People lives depend on brakes. All rotors are not created equal. A rotor like those found on the ZR1 were designed from conception to have holes or slots or whatever in them. They are manufactured for high heat use with the holes or slots or both. When you use them as designed they do not fail. They are as close to bullet proof as possible. You can use them as though your life depends on it and it does.

Blank rotors bought from who knows where and machined to look cool do not fit in the same paragraph or sentence as ZR1 rotors. They are smooth finish rotors that some one machined. They were NOT designed to be machined or maybe they were but how do you know? Were they treated properly in the manufacturing process to relive the stress created in the machining? Who knows.

Rotors are no different than any other metal. Companies cold bend sway bars and stop right there. They do not normalize the bar. They do not heat treat the bar they just bend them and ship them. So what? the chances of them breaking where they are stressed are minimal so we'll skip that step.

Anyone that buys a rotor that is NOT an OE rotor should exercise great care in the selection process. The should get confirmation that the rotor they choose is suitable for the way they intend to use it.

I have never met a racer who was in the midst of going off track that thought -- MAN AM I GLAD I BOUGHT THIS SUPER CHEAP HELMET FROM AN UNKOWN SELLER ON EBAY.

You buy the absolute BEST helmet you can afford. You buy the absolute BEST tires you can afford. You should buy the BEST rotors and pads you can afford. Your life depends on it. With brake rotors I'll say again what I said before -- leave the cross drilled for the show circuit unless they are extremely high quality as you would find on a ZR1 or true exotic where the holes or slots have been part of the original manufacturing process.

You know as well as I do exactly what I am talking about. I'll not name brands, but all rotors plain, slotted and or cross drilled rotors are not remotely the same in quality or in use. For my drivers safety, my family's safety and my safety, I'll take the OE rotor that has been extensively tested and validated over a bargain brand every time.

Would I ever use an aftermarket rotor? The answer would be yes, but I am VERY selective. I personally know the Joseph family at DBA and have used their rotors. I have used StopTech rotors. I have used what I'll refer to as premium brand-xes and will never use them again. Why? failures after three laps from warping into unstable, cracked after one ten lap session and I could go on.

There is no need to respond or turn this into a debate. I make NO money from any brake company. I have my opinion and you have yours. They seem to be different. There should be no hard feelings.
Actually, we are 99.5% on the same page here. There is a LOT of junk on the market sold by people that haven't the first clue regarding engineering, metallurgy or quality. But they somehow got a jobber account at one of many Chinese rotor distributors and found a machine shop to start drilling away. Most don't even come up with a pattern that makes any sense. Add eBay and PayPal and yer in da rotah bidness!

To be clear, I was confused on the ZR-1 reference, as carbon-ceramic rotors don't fall into this discussion. No conclusion at all can be drawn from those regarding drilling iron rotors. Apples and oranges.

And I 2nd the DBA comment. Stillen brought them to the USA many years ago, and we're proud of that fact. They completely understand how to make a rotor work for its intended application.

If you ever have questions on rotors and their sources, feel free to call if you like. I've tried/bought from/tested almost all of them by now. Many things have changed over the last few years through the slowdown and with mergers/acquisitions. Things that were true some time ago may not be the case today.

Cheers,

Chris
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:02 PM   #34
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We are cool.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:16 PM   #35
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Just trying to make sure you are not "implying" that our STILLEN rotors fall into your brand-exs

A ton of development and engineering go into our rotors and the slightest imperfection in ANY way at ANY stage of the manufacturing process from the casting, to the machining, balancing, or plating will get turned away and scrapped before it ever even gets boxed up for a customer.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:56 PM   #36
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Just trying to make sure you are not "implying" that our STILLEN rotors fall into your brand-exs
Eric,

I have written this before to you. I don't know you at all, but operate under the assumption you are a good guy. I have never used Stllen. If I had a bad experience with Stillen I would not use the Stillen brand name publicly. That is why I use a generic brand-x so as not to offend anyone. Each manufacturer is responsible to promote and sell to the strengths of their own products. As I said before, I have no financial interest in ANY brake company, but I do have a an interest in keeping the community safe.

That said, your base ball bat is out of place. It indicates you want to fight. I never bring a baseball bat or knife to a fight. I bring, according to some on this forum, . That said, I try at all costs to AVOID picking a fight, but will not back down. You brought out your baseball bat and I am trying my best to remain polite. Your post conveys to the forum you lack confidence in your product. I am certain that is not what you intended when you wrote it.

I suggest you take the high road and detail your manufacturing process and identify your product strengths within the context of the thread and for the benefit of the community. I am sure you have a great story to tell.

By all means tell your story and sell your product. When you do so, as a matter of common courtesy, leave me out of it.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:02 PM   #37
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So cute everyone is Fighting this morning all over the forum...

Anyway.. is there a 2 piece replacement for stock rotors?
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:13 PM   #38
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So cute everyone is Fighting this morning all over the forum...

Anyway.. is there a 2 piece replacement for stock rotors?
DBA 5000 series rotors, but i believe they only have the fronts only... would love to know if they will be making a 2 piece rear rotor!
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:40 PM   #39
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no plans an a 2 piece rear, the 4000 1 piece is sufficient for the rear.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:07 PM   #40
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SERIOUSLY?!?!?! Why is it that the Pedders guys need to step in and cause S#!t?!?!?

This is not the first thread you guys
and I know of a few that got removed because you guys always seem to step in and cause uneeded drama by your subtle innuendo. I seriously want to just

Other tuners, suspension manufacturers, and wholesalers find your "holier than thou" attitude a bit tiresome to say the least. If you want to step in a show off your big "guns" go for it.

But I am seriously going to find a way to just have you
perma-
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:11 PM   #41
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:14 PM   #42
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