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Old 12-19-2008, 08:41 AM   #76
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there is a problem here... and the problem is that we've waited for this car and been faithful to the cause for YEARS... we've endured the cancellation of the 4th gen and waited for years with nothing... then watched this car go from Concept to IVER to pre-production to production car and SEMA concepts and now to captured fleet cars roaming the streets... and we've ALL made some sacrifices along the way... the roof is a little taller, there is a b-pillar, the gas tank isn't up on the rear shoulder, the gas tank is on the OTHER SIDE OF THE CAR, the radio looks completely different than the Concept's, there's no navigation system (yes, there is OnStar, but it would have been cool to have something like what the CTS has)... all of these things we suffered through and persisted with our loyalty and love for the car... we "kept the faith"... we've ordered our cars knowing that we weren't getting HUD... we ordered our cars knowing that parking assist wasn't going to make it to the first run of cars... we ordered our cars knowing that a Z28 might come out and completely blow our cars away in a year... but there is a line... and not having ambient lighting available in the car at launch is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

the Ignition video was put out to tease us with how cool the interior would be... and then you tell us we can't have the one thing you were hoping to garner interest in with that video? the HUD, as it stands, in that video isn't going to be available but now you tell us that if you order at launch you're not going to get the AMBIENT LIGHTING?!?!? are we going to get a discount versus those who will order later and get the same car but WITH the ambient lighting? or is this a "you're buying the first run" tax? will there be a retro fit for those of us who have remained loyal for sooooooo long? for those of us who have MULTIPLE CAMAROS and GM products? or is this a "too bad, so sad" deal?

because, honetly, GM, this is a DEAL BREAKER when compounded with everything else that we've endured... Heaven knows I love to be the first to have a super cool new thing, but if this isn't going to be available, why order now? mark my words, guys, if this ambient lighting thing is true, we will be cancelling our pre-order... I would rather wait to get the best possible deal and package rather than being first in line... as it stands, if we wait, we'll be able to get a lower cost out the door, more options for the car and maybe even swing a Z06/Camaro SS double purchase for waiting, so this truly is a deal breaker.


GM, if you're hurting for money, dont piss off your core fans... dont make us wait for ANOTHER item on this car... you need sales right now and this WILL NOT BE GOOD for your reputation or sales... make some miracles happen, GM... you've had over 2 years of developing this car to get it right... time to prove that you're number one on the planet and deliver on your promises or get ready to have your name dragged through the mud.

your loyal following awaits an honest answer before January 1, 2009.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieEatsYou View Post
I'm with TAG also.

A lot of us put down a huge chunk of deposit money (some non-refundable!) on a car that very few of us has even seen in 3 dimensions. We based our purchase based on photoshopped pictures, incomplete order books, and rumors of present and future features.

I, for one, am not a big fan of leather, but when I imagined what the black leather interior of my rally yellow Camaro would look like bathed in a soft blue glow - well, you know....

Now we find the mental picture we've built in our mind's eye may turn out to be a mirage. And murky statements from GM reps that "it's not canceled," while good to know, only fuels the fire because the rumor was it was delayed, not canceled. I think we're all adult enough to deal with the truth - what bothers me is the trickle of information we're getting. If their are problems with ABL, just tell us up front what it is and if its the consensus of the GM engineers that it will or won't be ready on 16 Feb. It just immature of GM to withhold information and hope the bugs are ironed out in time just so they won't be accused of misleading us - which will happen anyway!

The HUD issue, the stripe issue, now the ABL issue means a lot to many people here and time is running out to give our dealers instructions on what to do with our order. We respectfully ask:
1. Is ABL delayed.
2. if so, for how long? We know, but give us a guess.
3. Will MSRP be adjusted? By how much?

We now return control to you....
completely agree!

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Originally Posted by camaro_corvette View Post

I want both
and we should GET both if we order this car and the ambient lighting isn't ready at launch... it should be a "we're sorry we made promises we didn't keep" gift to those of us who have been loyal for so long.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:48 AM   #78
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The HUD issue, the stripe issue, now the ABL issue means a lot to many people here and time is running out to give our dealers instructions on what to do with our order.
Exactly. Could be why GM is holding out info. We're all big boys here GM, you could at least say that's there a x% chance we get it done in time.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:44 AM   #79
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This IS a deal breaker for me...not just because I have to have ambient lighting, by because it's yet another thing that the car won't have at launch. I'm a little concerned at this point since they keep pulling stuff off the launch cars that they will have more than their fair share of "first year car" issues. I know this could go either way since hopefully they are pulling these "goodies" off of the car to keep the quality up, but after all the waiting and faith we have kept over the years...the loyal, order the car sight-unseen people ordering the guinea pig first year cars get the shaft. Not cool. With the country in the economic state it's in....now is not the time to be taking things off the car that people are expecting, especially if there will be no price adjustment.
We have stood by you and even sold a few of these cars for you already to people we just meet on the street and you want to take our gadgets away?!?!?
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:50 AM   #80
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We don't need no stinking Lights! I just want my car so I can play!!!!

They can take out all the extra electronics and lighting for al I car. Make it cheaper give us a discount and saves some weight! I would be happy with manual windows manyal leather seats! ETC.... Less crap to warranty or break and lighter car for a solid hotrod.

Companies make more power in motors than ever and add more weight for frills now days. Hell I dont even need a stereo I can do that myself. Ship it to me with no wheels use donut spares to deliver it. Give me specs for wheels that can fit I'll buy what I want and tires too!

While I do agree with all those that really want the lighting and the other items they were promised. They should get them. I disagree that I can't get mine with what I want without having the Extra BS that drives the price up just to get the Performance, color, and interior seat trim I want.

I want a true 60s/70s Hotrod without the extra BS and I hate paying for items I really don't want anyways. I always have. I want it with what I want and not items I dont want because I can do better for me if I do it myself. But why must I an dpeople like me pay twice. Onece for what we don't want and again to change it to what we do want?

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Old 12-19-2008, 12:26 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Tantalizer43 View Post
I agree with TAG 110%. And in my dream, I'm also driving half way across the country to pick my Camaro and driving it home from NC to OH.

If ambient light is cancelled completely, my order will not change.

It ambient light it postponed, my order will be also.

It's not about nit picky things, it's about being dissapointed when I see ambient lighting on later SS's, and thinking that I should have just waited.
Very well put. I think this is a very good example of where delayed gratification will pay off big time. I am going to be struggling to pay for this car for some time and I would be pissed to see a better version a couple of months down the road.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:38 PM   #82
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Or give us HUD as a replacement for the same price.
Ohhhh.....good suggestion! That would keep my order in place....
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:39 PM   #83
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What would make me (and i'm sure many others) a very happy camper on the whole Ambient Lighting issue if it is in fact going to be delayed, would be a promise from GM to retro fit at no additional cost the ABL into the 2LT/2SS models that miss the boat.

It may be a bit much to ask, but from looking at the posts here I think it's safe to say it would keep more than a couple orders from being delayed, if not canceled.

For me, the Camaro will be the first new car that will be exactly what I want, no settling for a different color, or getting a "better deal" because it does not have exactly the options package I was looking for.
The current Camaro in my driveway is a perfect example...
When I was out looking for a used F-body a few years ago, I was hoping to find a good deal on a T-top car with a 6 speed.
But instead I found an A-4 ragtop for 50% less that what I was finding the T-tops with the same mileage for.
At the time it seemed like a screaming good deal, and for most people, it would have been.
But as the newness wore off, every time I drove down a twisty road, I thought to myself "I should have waited and bought what I wanted"

The whole stripe thing was an annoyance, the HUD not being available until the 2011MY a disappointment, now with the talk of the Ambient Lighting being delayed, that's just one too many things that I would have to settle for.
And I for one do not want to look at other Camaro's two months after I get mine and have think to myself "if only I had waited another month or two..."

I've done that before, and won't do it again.
If delaying my order means that for once, I won't have to settle for anything, the my order will be postponed.

*EDIT*
Or as others have mentioned give is the HUD early.
At that point i'll go aftermarket for the ABL, or pay out of pocket for GM to install it later.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:53 PM   #84
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Well, just to keep this in perspective, at this point this thread has approx. 20 people that have shown disappointment in no ABL, with some of those planning to delay their order.
The "Calling JohnnyCamaro...." stripe thread has a poll count of 128 asking for longer Rally Stripes, none planning to delay their order since the prospect of a longer option does not exist at this time, but you can bet many would delay if there were longer coming and they were factory installed only items.
My point is that the stripe issue is at least as big an issue, and one I hope GM is also addressing in an expedient manner.
I would delay for longer stripes, but would not for the ambient lighting, an ambiance effect only visible to passengers at night, where the short stripes will be visible even to other drivers passing by on the road.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #85
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The Camaro is starting to look a lot like Windows Vista. It was going to have a new Files System. Humm could not make that work so its gone. About 6 other things they did not deliver on it when its was orignally talked about.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:00 PM   #86
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Sure would be nice to have Scott chime in about now......
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:06 PM   #87
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Out of curiosity, do the folks that don't care about the ambient lighting currently own a Camaro?

I guess since I have toys to play with that it's not the end of the world if I don't get one this Spring.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:07 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Rodrunner View Post
Well, just to keep this in perspective, at this point this thread has approx. 20 people that have shown disappointment in no ABL, with some of those planning to delay their order.
The "Calling JohnnyCamaro...." stripe thread has a poll count of 128 asking for longer Rally Stripes, none planning to delay their order since the prospect of a longer option does not exist at this time, but you can bet many would delay if there were longer coming.
My point is that the stripe issue is at least as big an issue, and one I hope GM is also addressing in an expedient manner.
I would delay for longer stripes, but would not for the ambient lighting, a ambiance effect only visible to passengers at night.
I would not delay for either. My wife has the ambient style lighting in her CTS. It is cool but I wouldn't miss it.

I am in this for the Camaro and its performance possibilities!!!! I can make stripes longer myself and I bet I could even do a lighting kit of my own just as cool and probably cheaper than it would cost me from GM. Same thing with Stereos and Navigation systems. Most times I prefer to choose my own products and install them my own way. Most people seem to like that way as well. Look at the after market for cars.

If no Ambient Lighting I simply want the discount for lack of off my price.

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Old 12-19-2008, 02:04 PM   #89
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Yesterday I mentioned in a post that buying a red tag corvette was not an option for me. I am thinking now it just might be. Great price and can get HUD, navigation, etc....
As an owner of a 2008 Z06 with Navigation, I would encourage you to get an aftermarket Nav unit instead. While the nav unit works fine, there is no Auxiliary or iPod interface as of now for that unit. Rumor has GM is developing one but it was supposed to be out last year and still no word. I am about to pull mine and install and aftermarket unit.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:51 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rodrunner View Post
Well, just to keep this in perspective, at this point this thread has approx. 20 people that have shown disappointment in no ABL, with some of those planning to delay their order.
The "Calling JohnnyCamaro...." stripe thread has a poll count of 128 asking for longer Rally Stripes, none planning to delay their order since the prospect of a longer option does not exist at this time, but you can bet many would delay if there were longer coming and they were factory installed only items.
My point is that the stripe issue is at least as big an issue, and one I hope GM is also addressing in an expedient manner.
I would delay for longer stripes, but would not for the ambient lighting, an ambiance effect only visible to passengers at night, where the short stripes will be visible even to other drivers passing by on the road.
For me the lack og HUD was a close deal breaker. No blue color was the clincher. They undid that mistake and I'm ready to order this weekend and along come this "no ABL" rumor and a bunch of political waffling about it not being "cancelled" but no word on a delay?

Now I am back to not ordering again.

This has got to stop.

The fact they would tease us with how cool these features are and then NOT produce them is BAD BAD BAD!
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:23 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Rodrunner View Post
Well, just to keep this in perspective, at this point this thread has approx. 20 people that have shown disappointment in no ABL, with some of those planning to delay their order.
The "Calling JohnnyCamaro...." stripe thread has a poll count of 128 asking for longer Rally Stripes, none planning to delay their order since the prospect of a longer option does not exist at this time, but you can bet many would delay if there were longer coming and they were factory installed only items.
My point is that the stripe issue is at least as big an issue, and one I hope GM is also addressing in an expedient manner.
I would delay for longer stripes, but would not for the ambient lighting, an ambiance effect only visible to passengers at night, where the short stripes will be visible even to other drivers passing by on the road.

Stripes are no big thing because I'm going have mine painted on aftermarket anyway as opposed to vinyl stripes that scratch and build up wax at the edges. For those who are happy with the short vinyl stripes you can add on another section (and I'm sure the aftermarket will make them available). However...I'd hate go to the work of adding some type of ambient aftermarket lighting and then have an electrical problem....and have the dealer void my warranty due to it. We're talking about something quite different than favorite flavor of stripes here. The car has been adverised with ABL being a part of it and we buyers expect that it will be there. After waiting this long for the car I don't see a big problem with delaying my purchase until both HUD and ABL (and maybe even climate control) become a part of it if the ABL does'nt show up.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:40 PM   #92
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For me the lack og HUD was a close deal breaker. No blue color was the clincher. They undid that mistake and I'm ready to order this weekend and along come this "no ABL" rumor and a bunch of political waffling about it not being "cancelled" but no word on a delay?

Now I am back to not ordering again.

This has got to stop.

The fact they would tease us with how cool these features are and then NOT produce them is BAD BAD BAD!

I have to second you on this one Captain Awesome. How much more are we going to have taken off our car? We committed to being one of the first to buy knowing we had to give up HUD and then the stripes we want. Now this no ABL.

Come on GM. We all know the tuff times you have had but if you are going to build the camaro, get it right. For all of us. If not, delay the entire release until you have a "finished" product to offer the public. You are still a viable busniess that is going to be accountable for whatever you build and put on the road.

Selling half baked cakes is a recipe for disaster. I can't speak for anyone but myself here and I would rather you not rush a beautiful car with a fast engine to market that is incomplete or anything less then your original expectations. Others have said on this forum it's the little things that makes this camaro special. Without them, its just another fast car.

Besides, why do those of us who have put money down to make this launch a success, allowing you to boast how many you have presold, be the ones to get the lesser car??

We need an answer on the ABL.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:42 PM   #93
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you've had over 2 years of developing this car to get it right... time to prove that you're number one on the planet
Sorry to disagree but even with the new Camaro won't make GM # one.
They never was & doubt they ever will be? Sure hope they prove me wrong?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:45 PM   #94
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If GM had never announced that ambient lighting would be there, would you guys still be bitching? Maybe they shouldn't have announced anything til the car was being produced to know 100% what they'd have.

Still, this is all rumor. It is odd that noone has stepped in to quash or confirm the rumor yet though.

Was HUD ever announced as a feature and then the GMPP catalog recently? From everything I've seen, it's just been wishful thinking that it'll be brought over from the vette.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:53 PM   #95
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If GM had never announced that ambient lighting would be there, would you guys still be bitching? Maybe they shouldn't have announced anything til the car was being produced to know 100% what they'd have.

Still, this is all rumor. It is odd that noone has stepped in to quash or confirm the rumor yet though.

Was HUD ever announced as a feature and then the GMPP catalog recently? From everything I've seen, it's just been wishful thinking that it'll be brought over from the vette.
Pretty hard to bitch about something if you didn't know it existed in the first place!

I agree that Scott or someone reliable needs to quash this as well. I believe he has been on and posted on other threads so the lack of a reply here leads most of us (my assumption) who want the ABL, that it is possibly true.

We are all anxious to get our camaro's and are exhausted from the back and forth on the government loan and if GM was even going to be around next year. Any "bad" news just, well, gets to ya!
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:53 PM   #96
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GM can't delay this car..they're going to need the profits from this car to meet the loan requirements. If they don't finish ABL in time, it will most likely be left off.

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Old 12-19-2008, 10:02 PM   #97
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So, if they can't delay the car and those of us who have already ordered and put money down are going to get a car with options left off I guess that's just our loss. That really sucks. Can't imagine those cars are going to have the same future value as the ones that have what is "really" supposed to be included in their respective packages.

I have bot and sold many cars and the options do make a difference.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. It's the principle I don't like. I can hear my buddies now saying "that's what you get when you buy a GM." I'd rather not give them the opportunity to say it.

I would have to agree with them if that happens as well. I don't see BMW or Lexus saying they are going to have something on one of their cars and then when it comes time to be built say, "oh sorry, we couldn't get that to work in time so your car won't have it. You still have to pay me for it though."

I'll shut up on this topic now.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:21 PM   #98
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No one knows if this is a done deal or not...so hang in there.

But also realize that this is no normal car. I want to second UFC w00t, had this been any other vehicle in GM's lineup, we wouldn't have known anything about it (not even how it looked) until...like last month. So that means nobody would have ever known about Ambient lighting until it was 100% done...and you wouldn't know about price, about colors, about powertrains...you wouldn't have even been able to order it!

But GM decided to run with this, take the camo off, authorize people to talk it up -- BRING IN ENTHUSIASTS to get their opinions, and generally interact with us on how this car is built. (Blue SSs, anyone?). The openness about this project is astounding, and unprecedented! That means the good and the bad.

Having said that. There are always issues. And there are always unforeseen issues that get bigger and bigger and turn into "wtf?" issues. This light-pipe ambient lighting is new stuff, and this is a radically different interior it has to adapt to. So maybe...MAYBE....they encountered those unforeseen issues? It happens. And frankly, if I were to peg any feature on this car as the "issue" feature - it would have been the lighting hands-down.

Again, had this been a 'normal' car, we would have never known it existed, and therefore never known there was a problem. Instead, we know. But we know a lot MORE phenomenal things about this car, too thanks to the lessening of secrecy surrounding this vehicle...keep that in mind.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:32 PM   #99
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You are right Dragoneye. You always look at things with such common sense. I guess I am feeling a bit spoiled with the immediate gratification of information on this forum. If we had not had this forum, however the camaro looked we would probably have thought it was the best!

I have never had this kind of enthusiasm for a car and it is the information and pictures from this forum that have generated it for me. I just want it, mine, to be perfect in every way. I want it "now" and I don't want to wait. It looks like I might have to and that is what bums me out. I will have to delay my order because without the ABL it won't feel complete, like the car I first thought it was going to be.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:40 PM   #100
UCF w00t
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Dragoneye, my thoughts exactly in a better way than I was going to write it .

There's the flip side to it being worth less... maybe people will want one of the "rare" 2SS's without the lighting?
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