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Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

View Poll Results: How Fast or Which Car Wins
Mustang beats the Camaro 23 14.74%
Camaro beats the Mustang 77 49.36%
Mustang is Faster than the CTS-V Track Record 1 0.64%
Camaro is Faster than the CTS-V Track Record 8 5.13%
Camaro is Faster than the Viper 4 2.56%
Mustang is Faster than the Viper 0 0%
Camaro and Mustang out perform the C6 Z06 5 3.21%
Both Cars are Faster than the CTS-V Track Record 16 10.26%
Mustang beats the Camaro by 1 Second 6 3.85%
Camaro beats the Mustang by 1 Second 16 10.26%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2010, 04:49 PM   #26
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Soooo..... How did you vote?
Very very very very sneaky.

I can answer for him. He cast an informed vote
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:05 PM   #27
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Very very very very sneaky.

I can answer for him. He cast an informed vote
I guess I can wait with everyone else.....


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Old 08-16-2010, 05:43 PM   #28
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Soooo..... How did you vote?
I voted for the option that was the correct answer.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:55 PM   #29
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Judging by how well the Pedders Camaro did last year and looking at the data of their new coil overs, I bet the Camaro did a 1.33.6 and it was a half second faster than the Mustang.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:00 PM   #30
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:11 AM   #31
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One of the moderators posted more vids and pictures over here http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...08#post2228108
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:32 AM   #32
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Judging by how well the Pedders Camaro did last year and looking at the data of their new coil overs, I bet the Camaro did a 1.33.6 and it was a half second faster than the Mustang.
I like this theory best

That little of a difference would speak highly of the rustang as well... bad as I hate to say it. (theoretically speaking)
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:33 AM   #33
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I voted for the option that was the correct answer.
Yo momm.... I mean... I can respect that
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:17 PM   #34
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I'm shooting for the Camaro. But power to weight make a difference.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:50 PM   #35
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Here is an update on the Theoretical Lap Times for both the Mustang and Camaro. We use our data logging software to cut and paste the best parts of every lap we ran for each car. This does two things. First, it is a measure of driver consistency. The closer the drivers Best Lap to the Theoretical Lap the more consistent the driver is. To be withing a second is good, under a second is better and under a half a second is beyond good. Second, this is a measure of the car and particularly the suspension. To be able to be consistent the car must be consistent. All a driver can ask of a car is to be stable and predictable. If the car delivers stability and predictability the driver knows what to do on every inch of the track. A really good car paired with a really good driver will deliver consistently good results. One is a measure of the other.

In the Camaro John was 3/10ths of a second slower in his Actual Lap Time compared to the Theoretical Best Lap Time.
In the Mustang John was 3/100ths of a second off in his Actual Lap Time compared to the Theoretical Best Lap Time.

This is another way of saying the same thing. Our DRIVER and our CARS were almost PERFECT.

John and the Mustang WERE perfect to be 3/100ths of a second apart in Actual vs. Theoretical Lap Times.

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Old 08-18-2010, 12:02 AM   #36
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So if a perfect driver could drive 10/10ths for a full lap, he drove a 9.7/10th and a 9.97/10th? He's good!
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #37
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So if a perfect driver could drive 10/10ths for a full lap, he drove a 9.7/10th and a 9.97/10th? He's good! Does Banzai Brannon know about this kid?
Stan, Chris and John are all race buddies. One of these days we'll have to hold an event with all three track-side. They are ALL excellent drivers. They are all quality people. I am proud to be associated with them.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:29 AM   #38
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Stan, Chris and John are all race buddies. One of these days we'll have to hold an event with all three track-side. They are ALL excellent drivers. They are all quality people. I am proud to be associated with them.
If it's an open event and I'm in town, I'm there!

You know why he deserves the nickname, right? He posted a vid drifting a GTO over a blind hill at speed ... Does he always drive like that? If so, I wanna ride a lap with him!
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-- Benjamin Franklin
Great Racing Quotes

"Never run out of real estate, traction and ideas at the same time."
"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
"Don't brake until you see God, just don't meet him"
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:34 AM   #39
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If it's an open event and I'm in town, I'm there!

You know why he deserves the nickname, right? He posted a vid drifting a GTO over a blind hill at speed ... Does he always drive like that? If so, I wanna ride a lap with him!
Yep.





Chris is the most gifted drive by the seat of his pants driver I know next to Paul Tracy. Stan and John are far more calculating. They are all fast in different ways. I wouldn't want to bet on the winner for anything of substance in a race between these three.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:35 AM   #40
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You can get a feel for our friendship in this interview.



I really enjoy spending time with Chris and his family.
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:56 AM   #41
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You can get a feel for our friendship in this interview.



I really enjoy spending time with Chris and his family.
Yeah, I seem to recall seeing some in car footage from that testing as well.

..... Speaking of in car footage.....
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:21 PM   #42
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It is coming to a forum near you soon!
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:11 PM   #43
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If you do the weight to hp ratios, you will find the Camaro has the advantage there.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:33 PM   #44
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If you do the weight to hp ratios, you will find the Camaro has the advantage there.
Yes, but the track doesn't particularly favour power/acceleration. And heavier cars have an inherent disadvantage in handling abilities. So the idea was to compensate the Camaro's weight with extra power, beyond what would equalize them for power to weight ratios.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:34 PM   #45
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If you do the weight to hp ratios, you will find the Camaro has the advantage there.
It isn't that simple though, that is what pete mentioned earlier. The heavier car also has a disadvantage in braking then...comparatively...
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:34 PM   #46
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Yes, but the track doesn't particularly favour power/acceleration. And heavier cars have an inherent disadvantage in handling abilities. So the idea was to compensate the Camaro's weight with extra power, beyond what would equalize them for power to weight ratios.
you beat me to it, so I just added the braking part
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:47 PM   #47
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Part of what we did is to max out the performance -- without going into the motor. We could have built monster motors, changed out transmissions, drive shafts, rear gears, half-shafts and more. These two cars are attainable. Saleen may well choose to build a car exactly like ours and it wouldn't be close to a six figure car. Most any enthusiast can take elements of what we have done and apply it to their own Camaro or Mustang. The fuel system limits us to the RWHP we are making. Could we replace the fuel system, of course, but we are back to adding big bucks to the final build if we do the work to OEM standards.

We are down to a few tweaks we are kicking around after the latest head to head run. My guess is we can wring out another 1/h second or so from each car. Run the next session on a cooler day and it would be a bit more. There isn't any low hanging fruit left unless I put my driver on a all fruit diet and get him down to under 100 pounds.

There was a post from SSteve that come through my email, but I can't find it here.

The weight advantage of the Mustang is too much for the Camaro to overcome. While you were in those deep technical discussions with the government motors guys, did you happen to ask them why they made the car so heavy?

Also, is that cat wearing the red shoes the owner? Do you get a pair of those shoes when you buy a set of Pedders coilovers?


The Camaro is a bigger car than the Mustang. If the Musstang were as large it would be virtually the same in weight. I hear rumors that the next Camaro will be a bit smaller. I am not sure that is a good idea. My wife loves using the Camaro as a family car because it is larger inside than the Mustang. How much that will impact sale of a 6th Gen Camaro I don't know. Smaller and lighter will be a HUGE gain on the track, but the last time the Camaro was that size they didn't sell enough of them to continue to build them. Then again, the Mustang continues to sell.

Those are my Ferrari driving shoes. I can afford to pay cash for the shoes. When I can pay cash for my new Ferrari I'll lose the shoes.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:49 PM   #48
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I think there is a 300lb or so difference between the stock Camaro and Mustang. But as I have heard, you cannot put enough bracing on the Mustang. There is quite a bit of weight added to the Mustang in bracketry and bracing to fix their sins. So I do not think their is as much weight advantage as initially discussed. But I will repeat, I believe the Camaro has at least a .3 second advantage over the Mustang.
Time will tell once everything is posted
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:57 PM   #49
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I think there is a 300lb or so difference between the stock Camaro and Mustang. But as I have heard, you cannot put enough bracing on the Mustang. There is quite a bit of weight added to the Mustang in bracketry and bracing to fix their sins. So I do not think their is as much weight advantage as initially discussed. But I will repeat, I believe the Camaro has at least a .3 second advantage over the Mustang.
Time will tell once everything is posted
I can't wait
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Old 08-19-2010, 05:31 PM   #50
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Just found where the times are posted. but will no post them here out of respect.
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