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Old 09-07-2010, 04:55 AM   #1
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V6 Suspension Upgrades

Im looking to upgrade the suspension in my v6 camaro, but I am not seeing much of any parts. Does anyone manufacture a strut tower brace for the V6? Also, does anyone know if the Hotchkis sway bars and endlinks work on the V6, i want to make sure before I drop a grand on this stuff. When I searched this section, I could not find much info in regards to v6 upgrades specifically.

Thanks
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:46 AM   #2
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just talk to justice pete in pedders he has all the answers you might need
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:24 AM   #3
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Im looking to upgrade the suspension in my v6 camaro, but I am not seeing much of any parts. Does anyone manufacture a strut tower brace for the V6? Also, does anyone know if the Hotchkis sway bars and endlinks work on the V6, i want to make sure before I drop a grand on this stuff. When I searched this section, I could not find much info in regards to v6 upgrades specifically.

Thanks
After market V6 and V8 Camaro suspensions are all the same. Same for strut tower brace.
http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/i...d11a3823d9f081
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:48 AM   #4
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One other thing, I don`t know to what extent you plan on modding your suspension but if your doing serious suspension mods and you don`t replace the stock rubber suspension bushings with polyurethane bushings, then eveything else is just a waste of time and money.

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/p...roducts_id/163
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:34 PM   #5
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As MickSS posted above, all of the suspension products are interchangeable, however the strut tower brace may or may not be depending on the manufacturer. For instance, our Strut Tower Brace will not clear the rear manifold hump on the V6 models but it clears the V8's. The cars themselves are the same, it's the motor that creates the interference problem.

As for suspension recommendations, swaybars are a great first mod. They will definitely give you immediate results that you can feel. $1k, however seems like way too much for swaybars. If you are dead set on Hotchkis, that's fine, they are quality bars, but if you are looking for a better value we sell our tubular adjustable swaybar kit for much less. You could actually upgrade most of the bushings, swaybars, AND buy other components for $1k and have much more product for your money.



All BMR 2010 Camaro products can be viewed HERE.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:23 PM   #6
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Thanks BMR Guy, do you guys plan on making a strut tower brace for the V6? Sidenote, the 1k includes the front and rear endlinks. However, I was also looking at BMR, I do like your stuff and have heard good things, plus you do offer a lot for the money.

Last edited by JohnZ; 09-07-2010 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #7
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Im looking to upgrade the suspension in my v6 camaro, but I am not seeing much of any parts. Does anyone manufacture a strut tower brace for the V6? Also, does anyone know if the Hotchkis sway bars and endlinks work on the V6, i want to make sure before I drop a grand on this stuff. When I searched this section, I could not find much info in regards to v6 upgrades specifically.

Thanks
You should take a look at this thread to determine the need for any form of chassis braces on the 5th Gen Camaro. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103552

You show only 24 posts, but that is not always indicative of how much time a person has spent on the forums. There is a thread on the 5th Gen Camaro Suspension that is absolutely brilliantly written called The Book I may be a bit biased on that as I did write it

You are correct when you say you want to be sure BEFORE you spend you money. Reading through The Book is a great place to start. The key for your six cylinder is to remember that the six is a better balanced vehicle than the 8 and will respond to all suspension modifications BETTER than the 8. If it were my car I would absolutely start with rear sub-frame bush inserts to control rear-end step out. Those rear IRS sub-frame bushes are the foundation of all other suspension modifications. Check out the threads and we can discuss it further.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:15 PM   #8
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You should take a look at this thread to determine the need for any form of chassis braces on the 5th Gen Camaro. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103552
While that information is impressive, real world testing like what is seen in this video demonstrates there is still room for improvement.

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Old 09-07-2010, 08:51 PM   #9
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What is there to improve on? Not a single driver we have used in or testing our track days has EVER asked for the 5th Gen Camaro to have more structure or triangulation and that includes Paul Tracy driving the Pedders Camaro at the Optima Street Car Challenge. Optima Video The Pedders Camaro is out running race cars on a highly technical road course that would expose any chassis weakness. The results speak for themselves.



The posted Pedders Camaro lap time is almost a year old. When we ran the Camaro in the Supercar Shootout it was faster. How fast? faster than any of the Pro-Touring Cars that ran the same track in the same weather conditions this summer including those that were purpose built by performance companies.



Pedders does believe in chassis braces for vehicles that benefit from them. The 2005 on Mustang is a classic example. UNLIKE the 5th Gen Camaro that has a front sub-frame with six bolts and two locating pins, the Mustang has only four bolts and the sub-frame ends before the front sway bar mount. This allows the sway bar and sub-frame to move some what independently of each other. Adding a triangulated chassis brace to tie them together makes a noticeable difference.



GM went out of their way to make it difficult to mount a strut tower bar because they wanted to make a statement about the structural integrity of the 5th Gen Camaro. GM installed the 'chassi braces' as the ZETA II 5th Gen Camaro is assembled.










If I were starting with a body in white 5th Gen to purpose build a race car I would absolutely add triangulations to the structure and tie everything together with the cage -- BECAUSE IT IS A RACE CAR. In a street car, IMO there is no benefit to any chassis brace and believe we have proven it on track and documented it in videos.

Supercar Shootout Camaro Video

The 5th Gen Camaro benefits from GM's global engineering. It is more robust than the Pontiac GTO which was designed by Holden in Australia. There are thousands of GTOs with over 50K on the clock. You can visit the GTO forums and you will not find the owners complaining about creaks, rattles or groans. Take a 4th gen Camaro owner out in a GTO and they will rave about how solid it is regardless of the miles.

GM followed the GTO / Holden Commodore with the G8 / Holden Commodore on the ZETA chassis. The ZETA chasis is vastly superior to the GTO. Once again I suggest you visit the G8 forums to find there are no common complaints about the car developing rattles or squeaks.

The 5th Gen Camaro is ZETA II, designed by Chevrolet / Holden and an improvement in moncoque strength over the ZETA platform. There is no reason to conclude that the 5th Gen needs any additional structure to provide many years of QUIET service and little reason to project a performance gain by adding weight with chassis braces.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:41 PM   #10
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yeah - but strut tower braces just look cool!

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Old 09-07-2010, 10:19 PM   #11
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yeah - but strut tower braces just look cool!




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Old 09-08-2010, 04:16 AM   #12
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What is there to improve on?
The Camaro chassis is an amazing piece of engineering, but it does flex. Period. Do I think a strut tower brace is one of the first things a Camaro owner should look at when upgrading their suspension? No. But to deny that flex exists in the face of clear evidence that it does is doing a disservice to our customers.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:29 AM   #13
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i watched the video and you pounded on the car, and i saw about 2mm of flex, is 2mm of flex going to effect much i doubt it, show me a high end race car that doesnt have a bit of flex, from a kia to a ferrari im sure they all have a little something, its basic physics but how much does 2mm matter, FOR MY TASTE a strut bar is not that attractive on the car OTHERS WILL FEEL DIFFERENT. unless you are building a roadrace car i dont see the need for it on the street especially for the first things to be done for a suspension
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:31 AM   #14
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Strut tower bar not needed, Sub fram bushing inserts needed.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:25 AM   #15
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Thanks BMR Guy, do you guys plan on making a strut tower brace for the V6? Sidenote, the 1k includes the front and rear endlinks. However, I was also looking at BMR, I do like your stuff and have heard good things, plus you do offer a lot for the money.
Yes, there is a plan to manufacture V6 strut tower braces but nothing has been started yet. We lost access to our V6 test car when the owner upgraded to an SS. Any V6 cars in the Tampa Bay area?
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:26 AM   #16
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Using a strut tower bar because you like the look is Adding a strut tower bar as a critical performance upgrade is wishful thinking.

The lowest hanging fruit on a Daily Driver Camaro has NO flash value but has tremendous functional value. Sub-frame inserts address rear end step out. You can add coilovers or sway bars or lowering coils or wheels and tires and none of them will address rear end step out. Some of these modifications will actually make rear end step out worse.

Sub-frame bush inserts or sub-frame bushes are the place to start your suspension mods on a six or an eight. Take a read through this thread and see how mission critical sub-frame bushes really are to a 5th Gen.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98362
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:39 PM   #17
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Im looking to upgrade the suspension in my v6 camaro, but I am not seeing much of any parts. Does anyone manufacture a strut tower brace for the V6? Also, does anyone know if the Hotchkis sway bars and endlinks work on the V6, i want to make sure before I drop a grand on this stuff. When I searched this section, I could not find much info in regards to v6 upgrades specifically.

Thanks
Hi JohnZ,

Every part that we make for the 2010 Camaro, works on both V6 and V8 Chassis. This includes our engine mounts, strut brace, sway bars etc. Even our shifter when it is released will probably fit both chassis.

We have a TON of V6 owners using our products, as the performance goals of V8 and V6 Camaros are identical. Hopefully some of them will see this thread and chime in.

As others have posted, there are multiple manufactures of Strut Braces for the 2010 camaro, and they all address the inherent flex in the chassis under a variety of conditions, from road racing to pulling in a driveway.

With that said, the most effective upgrades on the 2010 Camaro are going to be front and rear matched sway bar upgrades, and rear suspension upgrades like Rear Trailing Arms, and Rear Subframe bushings that completely solve any rear subframe movement during cornering etc., not just limit it. Take a look at the video below to see what I am talking about to completely solve the rear end stepping out during cornering.



In terms of Sway Bars on V6 and V8 models, take a look at the charts below to show the relative comparisons between OEM V6, OEM V8, and all Pfadt engineered sway bars. I have included a video below that to show exactly what the sway bars will do for your V6 Camaro in terms of flat cornering. Like I said, the performance goals of V6 and V8 Camaros are identical, due to the weight difference being approximately the equivalent of a full tank of fuel.





If you have any questions regarding V6 performance, please just let us know. We are here to help!
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:23 PM   #18
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a question to pfadt um if your subframe bushings are solid wouldnt that mean a harder ride for the daily driver, wouldnt you want a little softness in them to keep things comfy?
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:30 AM   #19
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The harder the sub-frame bushes the more noise there will be transmitted. That is why the OE bushes have NVH voids. All of us try to skin the same cat and not have the cat screech. Our inserts use the OE rubber for NVH management. The EP1201 are solid. but not as hard or dense as the EP1201HD which we consider full track ready.

None of the noise increases with Sub-Frame inserts or bushes are objectionable. They are incremental increases. None will make your ride rough because the sub-frame isn't really part of the suspension in the sense it was not designed to articulate when you traverse a bump. The sub-frame is supposed to be the platform for the moving components of the suspensions that make your car ride smooth or rough.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:27 PM   #20
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a question to pfadt um if your subframe bushings are solid wouldnt that mean a harder ride for the daily driver, wouldnt you want a little softness in them to keep things comfy?
camaro4mybday, I can not argue against the logic behind your question. But in reality there are a couple things going on in the rear suspension design that let us get away with a solid design.

We tested versions of rear subframe bushings in various poly/plastics and found only disadvantages in performance and no advantage in NVH levels in-cabin. The design of the rear subframe to chassis isolation allows for a lot of movement in the X (fore/aft) direction and some Y (side to side) direction for dynamic alignment changes. There is also movement as you can see, in the Z (vertical) direction (which is probably the weakest direction of the design), but it is not the primary use of that connection. Things that more directly affect the ride quality are in the Z direction, and are more like Springs and Struts etc, to soak up bumps and vertical suspension deflections. So the rear subframe bushings are not primarily used in that application, as they do not directly take those vertical loads.

It is for that reason, that we found by creating a MUCH stronger, and LIGHTER component, that solves the issue of rear subframe movement COMPLETELY, and not just partially, it was best to go with a solid mount. A solid mount in Aluminum, or a close to solid mount out of hard poly, had the same levles of NVH, from our testing. Only the non-solid versions we tested did not have the performance advantage of the solid mount.

So, with that said, the level of NVH added by the solid subframe mounts is very minimal at most, if any. Some customers say they notice no ride quality/noise difference whatsoever. Some say they just "feel" the rear end being tighter, shaper, more precise, and the noise level is minimal (some say there is slightly more differential noise). It is really a subjective concern, and depends on what your expectations are and how perceptible you are of noise etc.

The suspension arms and components that affect ride quality more directly are still isolated in rubber, in one way or another (poly etc), and this is why the Solid Subframe Bushings have less of an effect on noise, vibration and harshness, than say, a full control arm poly kit.

Things still stay nice and comfy on the street with the use of these bushings!
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:44 PM   #21
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Im looking to upgrade the suspension in my v6 camaro, but I am not seeing much of any parts. Does anyone manufacture a strut tower brace for the V6? Also, does anyone know if the Hotchkis sway bars and endlinks work on the V6, i want to make sure before I drop a grand on this stuff. When I searched this section, I could not find much info in regards to v6 upgrades specifically.

Thanks
Hi JohnZ -

Whew, lots of info in this thread. You do ask in your post if the Hotchkis sway bars work on the V6 and the answer is yes. Give us a call anytime to talk to a tech.
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