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Old 09-12-2010, 04:02 PM   #15
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She's become pretty much of a back marker in the IRL.
Inaccurate. She's had a very weak year compared to 2009 (where she was 5th in the points and the top non-Penske, non-CG driver), but she's still been running midpack with occasional glimpses of her previous year's performance, which doesn't qualify her as a 'back marker' by any reasonable analysis of her results.

This in no way rules out people not liking her, of course. I just wish people would separate their opinion from her points results. If you wanna talk back-markers, IRL has plenty of drivers who the term fits much, much better.

I do agree that she needs to be more aggressive. She's often plenty fast enough to challenge for the top-five or the lead, but as another poster said, she seems skittish about mixing it up. Every once in a while she'll race when she's pissed off and boy can you tell the difference (Texas, this year, probably her best...and 'meanest' drive).

Anyway, to me, she (along with her teammates, actually) is a great symbol of some of what's wrong with the IRL, and I ain't talking about her publicity. That's no worse than Tony Stewart and his Whoppers, in my opinion.

What I mean is the fact that there are a LOT of talented driver's in the IRL who only rarely have a realistic shot at a win due to Penske's and CG's dominance. It happens, but not often enough.

Maybe the new car in 2012 will shake things up a little. I sorta doubt it though.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:13 PM   #16
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Maybe the new car in 2012 will shake things up a little.
What is this new car you speak of?
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:15 PM   #17
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Didn't we have this "discussion" before???

If you really want to argue over the terminology, thats fine, we can do that. My point is, unless you're winning, or consistently challenging for wins, you're pretty much thought of as a "back marker", "mid pack", "also ran", etc., and therefore not very prominent in the minds of fans or sponsors.

You can't avoid the fact that a major reason she is even relevent still, are her looks, and basing that against her on track performance, her looks are a bigger asset to her and sponsors than what she does on the track.

There are a few drivers, who get more recognition from their name, looks, and fan popularity than what they do on the track, ie; Dale Jr., and Danica is another fine example.

As for the new car in 2012, and it improving her performance, I wouldn't bet on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Vlad View Post
Inaccurate. She's had a very weak year compared to 2009 (where she was 5th in the points and the top non-Penske, non-CG driver), but she's still been running midpack with occasional glimpses of her previous year's performance, which doesn't qualify her as a 'back marker' by any reasonable analysis of her results.

This in no way rules out people not liking her, of course. I just wish people would separate their opinion from her points results. If you wanna talk back-markers, IRL has plenty of drivers who the term fits much, much better.

I do agree that she needs to be more aggressive. She's often plenty fast enough to challenge for the top-five or the lead, but as another poster said, she seems skittish about mixing it up. Every once in a while she'll race when she's pissed off and boy can you tell the difference (Texas, this year, probably her best...and 'meanest' drive).

Anyway, to me, she (along with her teammates, actually) is a great symbol of some of what's wrong with the IRL, and I ain't talking about her publicity. That's no worse than Tony Stewart and his Whoppers, in my opinion.

What I mean is the fact that there are a LOT of talented driver's in the IRL who only rarely have a realistic shot at a win due to Penske's and CG's dominance. It happens, but not often enough.

Maybe the new car in 2012 will shake things up a little. I sorta doubt it though.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Didn't we have this "discussion" before???
We totally did.

Quote:
My point is, unless you're winning, or consistently challenging for wins, you're pretty much thought of as a "back marker", "mid pack", "also ran", etc., and therefore not very prominent in the minds of fans or sponsors.
Some fans and some sponsors. If winning were everything, two thirds of any given racing series wouldn't be there...as it is, you can find rabid fans of Virgin F1 and Milka Duno, sometimes in decent numbers.

And they really ARE back markers!

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You can't avoid the fact that a major reason she is even relevent still, are her looks, and basing that against her on track performance, her looks are a bigger asset to her and sponsors than what she does on the track.
I will agree that part of the reason for her popularity is that she's hot.

I won't agree that without that she 'wouldn't be relevant'...because it's not backed up by fact. She's been in the IRL season-end top ten for most of the years she's been racing (she might be this year, too, though she's only got two races to make it happen so I doubt it) and occasionally pulls out some damn fine results.

That would make her "relevant" if she looked like Kurt Busch. She just wouldn't have as many horny male fans or be doing shower commercials.

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There are a few drivers, who get more recognition from their name, looks, and fan popularity than what they do on the track, ie; Dale Jr., and Danica is another fine example.
Sure. But that doesn't make them bad drivers.

If it did, thanks to his popularity with certain middle-aged, female, Dancing With the Stars fans (sorry, Mom), Helio Castroneves would never win another race.

Quote:
As for the new car in 2012, and it improving her performance, I wouldn't bet on it.
I don't think it'll improve her performance. I don't think it'll improve anyone's performance.

I do think it's possible that having a season or two before all the potential is squeezed out of the new chassis will reduce Penske or CG's dominance somewhat and allow some of the other drivers a chance to show what they can do when the machinery is on a more even playing field.

Marco Andretti would've had a win or two this year, had his car been equal to a Penske. Same with Danica at Texas, Tony Kanaan on Lord-knows how many occasions.

Note I said possible. I don't actually think it's all that likely. But ya' know, I can dream.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:40 PM   #19
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What is this new car you speak of?
First article I found. There's plenty more. Just Google "New 2012 Indycar" or similar.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:48 PM   #20
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As before, we'll agree to disagree. You're obviously a fan. I am not.


- 1 win in her entire 6 year career in the IRL
- despite her performance she still has a seat in an upper echelon team

Put her in one of the less well funded/equipped teams, and we'll see how well she does.
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:02 PM   #21
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As before, we'll agree to disagree. You're obviously a fan. I am not.
Fan yes, but I don't mind when other people aren't. You can say 'I don't like her, she's a hot-headed nutcase' all you want without me challenging it.

Quote:
- 1 win in her entire 6 year career in the IRL
- despite her performance she still has a seat in an upper echelon team
1 win...

...but in the top ten at the end of the season for four out of five seasons (so far), with a rather impressive list of top-tens, and top-fives.

That's a better record that two of her three current teammates.

Quote:
Put her in one of the less well funded/equipped teams, and we'll see how well she does.
She was Rahal-Letterman in 2005-06. 12th in the Championship in 2005, but 7th in 2006.

I wouldn't call AGR 'top-tier' though. I call them 'could be' top-tier, or the "best of the rest" I personally think they have too many irons in the fire.

But sure. We can agree to disagree.
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:08 PM   #22
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Old 10-09-2010, 04:45 PM   #23
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Another sad race today

though the announcers just said she is having a great day today.


Started 14th and now in 19th place -1 lap as of lap 68.


Thats stock market logic, your stock is down 100 points from its last high, but long as your 3 point higher then yesterday its great.

Last edited by 2ndgenz28; 10-11-2010 at 01:07 AM. Reason: forgot to add the -1 lap
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:00 PM   #24
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good driver or bad driver, i think she's a bitch.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:25 PM   #25
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Another sad race today

though the announcers just said she is having a great day today.


Started 14th and now in 19th place as of lap 68


Thats stock market logic, your stock is down 100 points form its last high, but long as your 3 point higher then yesterday its great.
she is passin lead lap cars and just got the lucky dog.....she is having a great day for a beginner......her car owner could take lessons......but they interview him every week....before and after the race........go figure.....
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:31 PM   #26
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But she makes a good shower commercial though. As long as she can attract sponsorship dollars, that's all that matters, because that's the direction NASCAR has gone.

Yup I agree, just look at Jimmie Johnson, that is why he wins all the time. NASCAR didn't want Clint Boyer to win this year = big penalty that put him out. Its true, the France family only cares about $$$. It makes me sick.
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Old 10-10-2010, 11:19 PM   #27
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good driver or bad driver, i think she's smoking hot.
I fixed that for you!!!!!!




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Old 10-11-2010, 01:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
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she is passin lead lap cars and just got the lucky dog.....she is having a great day for a beginner......her car owner could take lessons......but they interview him every week....before and after the race........go figure.....
#1 it was great when she got turned nose first into the wall, and she sure was and is the lucky dog

But all the men from Indy picked it right up and did well right off, course they also won in Idny allot too
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