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Old 10-24-2010, 07:07 PM   #101
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Wow I love all this speculation. Now here are questions I pose to myself and hopefully some people can answer reasonably.

1. How much weight would be saved going from the 6.2L to the new 5.5L (aluminum block right?) from just switching out engines?

2. Why not give the V6 the 3.0L LF3 engine! GM's got the engine, hopefully, they are just finishing up testing it.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:45 PM   #102
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Its reasonable, feasible and wouldn't require a huge outlay in new development and I know GM isn't going to do it.

Raid the GM performance parts bin:
Cold air box has GM sold any?
Shorty headers same story...
GM exhaust, yes a few are sold. But most buyers aren't swapping at all or are heading right to aftermarket.

Suggestion:
  • Trans from CTS-V with 3:73 ratio (know it can handle the power)
  • Hit the parts bi: Put on the shorties / GM cold air box / GM exhaust (get them out of the warehouse they are in gathering dust)
  • A sway bar and swap out the 245s up front for another set of 275s.
  • Pop in the LS Hot Cam. (LS376/480...)
With the Cam, Headers and Exhaust swap, it should be good for ~45hp to the wheels.

Gear change gets the trap speed up.
Sway bars and wheels gets the cornering speeds up.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:56 PM   #103
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Yes a gearing change would lower MPGs for those cars equipped with it, and I guess would lower the overall average MPG of all cars if they are somehow keeping track of how many are sold with higher gearing versus those with lower.

BUT they can still advertise the 29 MPG highway as they are now, just as ford advertises 31 for the mustang. We all know you can only get that with the higher geared mustang, but general public won't realize it. I'm not saying lower the gearing and thats it, but instead give us another option just like ford does.

But again, as I said before, I'm sure offering a gearing change could cost GM more money in development and assembly and such rather than doing something simple like writing a new tune or adding intake/exhaust tweaks.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:57 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
I still don't see why they won't just offer us gearing options and leave the engines alone. A lower "track" geared option would easily be the equivilant of another 40 - 60 lbs/Tq and get those fast 0 - 60 and quarter mile times.

But who knows, if all they are going to do is offer a revised tune then I guess that is probably a cheaper way to go.
Because shorter gearing does not give your car any more power. It just kills your fuel economy.

A car that has 430HP will have 430HP whether you have 3.42's or 5.13's. Meaning it will not accelerate any harder with the shorter gears.

All shorter gears do is help you get off the line harder and into the powerband. Thats how it improves ET's. Once the car is in the powerband though, it will not be any faster. That would be physically impossible.

So unless you launch your car on slicks at every stoplight, shorter gears would be nothing but a downgrade.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:59 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by devildoc View Post
Wow I love all this speculation. Now here are questions I pose to myself and hopefully some people can answer reasonably.

1. How much weight would be saved going from the 6.2L to the new 5.5L (aluminum block right?) from just switching out engines?
Absolutely nothing.

They are both all aluminum engines, the small amount of extra material on the cylinder walls probably adds up to about 5 ounces of total weight difference. The architecture if the engines is the same.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #106
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This is awesome! However, folks there may be a few problems with your solutions. A gearing change would likely result in lower fuel economy all around. If it drops too low you will have to pay a GG tax. You have to pay to play.
...
No, like Ford, the gear ratios would be completely optional. That way, there is no effect on the fleet mpg or gas guzzler.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:27 PM   #107
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more power is always better.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:31 PM   #108
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Great, make my decision to grab a 2011 SS next year even harder. To wait, or not? gah! :(
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:47 PM   #109
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Great, make my decision to grab a 2011 SS next year even harder. To wait, or not? gah! :(
I would wait to see the new interior and performance. The 2012 will be out by the end of next year most likely... so waiting a couple months might be worth it.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:39 PM   #110
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all they have to do is raise the rev limiter a little and there's your "increase" in power. A redesigned air box can result in 10-15 hp more. What i'm getting at is it won't take a lot and don't expect another 75 hp for those that are speculating and getting their hopes up.

I wouldn't expect anything drastic like new redesigned cylinder heads or cam or something lol.

small simple changes .

In the end, who cares, it's not like you're gonna keep your car stock anyway..
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:45 PM   #111
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In the end, who cares, it's not like you're gonna keep your car stock anyway..
I have no idea where you get your information from good sir.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:14 PM   #112
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sigh

Why dont they just make the dam car lighter. The power is already there it just needs less weight.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:32 PM   #113
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sigh

Why dont they just make the dam car lighter. The power is already there it just needs less weight.
Because that would be VERY expensive to do on this platform. Adding power would be much easier and cheaper. Keep in mind they are moving to the lighter, smaller alpha platform for 2014 so to do a major overhaul on this one (when it's selling very well) would be a waste.

Also raiding the performance parts bin wont cut it. Everything would need to be certified and go through the government and EPA testing. There's a reason why most of the parts say "off road use only".
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:50 PM   #114
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Because shorter gearing does not give your car any more power. It just kills your fuel economy.

A car that has 430HP will have 430HP whether you have 3.42's or 5.13's. Meaning it will not accelerate any harder with the shorter gears.

All shorter gears do is help you get off the line harder and into the powerband. Thats how it improves ET's. Once the car is in the powerband though, it will not be any faster. That would be physically impossible.

So unless you launch your car on slicks at every stoplight, shorter gears would be nothing but a downgrade.
Your last statement is not true. Shorter gears will cause your car to accelerate faster until it reaches its top speed. They work from a stop or from a roll. Its not more HP, its mechanical advantage.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:50 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
Because shorter gearing does not give your car any more power. It just kills your fuel economy.

A car that has 430HP will have 430HP whether you have 3.42's or 5.13's. Meaning it will not accelerate any harder with the shorter gears.

All shorter gears do is help you get off the line harder and into the powerband. Thats how it improves ET's. Once the car is in the powerband though, it will not be any faster. That would be physically impossible.

So unless you launch your car on slicks at every stoplight, shorter gears would be nothing but a downgrade.
Yes I know what shorter gearing does. Of course it does not add any engine power. Just better transfer of torque. But I don't see any other reason for a power upgrade other than getting better 0 - 60 times and better quarter mile times right?

So the correct gear ratio will also accomplish that.

If your saying lower gears are not better for performance, why is everyone wanting 3.73s and 4.10s? I know that going lower and lower for gearing doesn't necessarily mean faster, but if thought out correctly, it would help times. For instance, 3.55s on the V6 would equate to 3rd gear toping out right at or above 100 MPH. That means no need for a shift into 4th, and lower gearing = better 1/4 mile times on a stock car.

And I still stick with the idea that GM can still advertise the same MPG ratings. (with its standard gear ratio)
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:09 AM   #116
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This would make the second major change coming to the 2012 Camaros, in addition to the expected revamped and improved interior.
Maybe I am missing something but is there even a first major change? Unless it's the Z/28.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:11 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Yes I know what shorter gearing does. Of course it does not add any engine power. Just better transfer of torque. But I don't see any other reason for a power upgrade other than getting better 0 - 60 times and better quarter mile times right?

So the correct gear ratio will also accomplish that.

If your saying lower gears are not better for performance, why is everyone wanting 3.73s and 4.10s? I know that going lower and lower for gearing doesn't necessarily mean faster, but if thought out correctly, it would help times. For instance, 3.55s on the V6 would equate to 3rd gear toping out right at or above 100 MPH. That means no need for a shift into 4th, and lower gearing = better 1/4 mile times on a stock car.

And I still stick with the idea that GM can still advertise the same MPG ratings. (with its standard gear ratio)
Changing the gearing essentially only changes on either having quicker acceleration or higher top end. But I would say that the Mustangs do have better gearing for overall street performance.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:30 AM   #118
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And that's with the CamaroSS weighing 200lbs more. Can anyone tell me how much the hood and truck weigh.. and whether a carbon fiber replacement would be worth the change in weight?
Hood is aluminum. You're not going to shave any weight there.
Trunk could do with a pound or two less.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:06 AM   #119
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Gen V with D.I.?
seriously... This... It is so obvious. Also isn't Gm working on 8 spd transmissions??
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:10 AM   #120
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Wow I love all this speculation. Now here are questions I pose to myself and hopefully some people can answer reasonably.

1. How much weight would be saved going from the 6.2L to the new 5.5L (aluminum block right?) from just switching out engines?

2. Why not give the V6 the 3.0L LF3 engine! GM's got the engine, hopefully, they are just finishing up testing it.
none whatsoever, since it is still a smallblock v8. the Ls7 weighs the same as the ls3.

edit: GM's 5.5 v8 is the 6.2 block with the crank of the 4.8.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:51 AM   #121
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My guess would be ECM tune and possibly higher flowing cats, maybe from 4 to 2 cats and even possibly a slightly more aggressive cam. Also changing the gearing would help with the quarter, yes, but that doesn't increase the HP which is what is stated in the OP. Its really hard to say what the future holds for the 2012 Camaro SS! Im glad I decided to wait till 2012.

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Old 10-25-2010, 04:15 AM   #122
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OMG all these power increases and such making me wanna wait. Was going to trade in my V6 for 2010 SS or 11. Now i'm going to wait.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:16 AM   #123
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This is awesome! However, folks there may be a few problems with your solutions. A gearing change would likely result in lower fuel economy all around. If it drops too low you will have to pay a GG tax. You have to pay to play.

My guess is a revised intake, tune and exhaust system.

Also, one thing about that C&D test? They tested another Mustang with the summer tires (not the "all season" tires) and it ran a 13.0 flat at 111. Basically they picked the slower time of the two. The Mustang simply has an advantage in most cases, lighter with just as much power to the wheels.
There is a loophole in the system that allows manufacturers to rate all vehicles the same mpg as long as the engine and trans are the same. You can use your highway gear model on the more efficient wheel/tire package for EPA testing and then give the magazines the 3.73 model with stickier rubber for testing. In fact, this is exactly what Ford did. Notice all the V8 M6 models are rated the same regardless of gear ratio?

Oh and power under the curve is what matters, so even if the Mustang puts out a similar PEAK power (at higher rpm) at the wheels, it is obviously not putting out equivalent average power or the SS wouldn't even stand a chance.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:03 AM   #124
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This rumor reeks of internet forum posters. The rumor of the horsepower bump because of the fact that 5.0 Mustangs are faster in the 1/4 mile is false.

Unless Chevy proves that they are the same old financially stupid company as years past, they will not bump the power in the Camaro before the Corvette. It makes no sense to change the engine in the Corvette now. It also makes no financial sense to change the interior of the Camaro in its 3rd MY run. The cost of changing and retooling is not a smart move when there is no need. They need to refresh the car in 5 year runs like the Mustang in order to make a profit.


Also, Mustang versus Camaro facts.

Both transmission V6 Mustang's are faster than any V6 Camaro.

Automatic 5.0 is faster than L99 Camaro.

Automatic 5.0 is faster than LS3 Camaro.

6 speed manual versus 5.0 versus LS3 Camaro is very close and comes down to driver skill.

Overall, the Mustang is the faster car. Anyone who chooses to use 1 specific test to 'prove' the Camaro is faster and disregard all other heads up results is a GM shill.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:12 AM   #125
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Ok f**k that! I would feel ripped off if they increase the hp on the ss
Well don't go buying any desktop or laptop computer because you are going to feel ripped off 6 months later. Seriously, products should improve year over year and should get better. That needs to be encouraged these days...
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