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Old 09-30-2007, 05:03 PM   #15
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Ron stands for Research Octane Number.... in the US i believe you use a multitude of different units... (PON, AKI, RdON) basically it's just down to the way it's tested to achieve the octane rating. Typically ron (apparently) tends to be 4-5 units higher than the US / Canada equivalent tests.
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Old 09-30-2007, 05:55 PM   #16
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:25 PM   #17
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I would like to chime in on this. Wasn't there an article on this forum (or was in Car and driver) about GM doing some current work on a Cadillac CTS engine with DIG Direct Injection Gas engines getting great performance with the E85 gas? This coupled with the Active Fuel Management system would offer great gas milage and performance! The vette has Acitve Fuel Management and gets 27MPG.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:55 PM   #18
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They said they found a way to make biofuel out of algae. They said it won't hamper food production and it yields much more fuel than other crops, such as corn. Plus, you don't need big fields to grow it in. Just a relatively cheap metal "silo" type building to let it sit in.
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I would like to chime in on this. Wasn't there an article on this forum (or was in Car and driver) about GM doing some current work on a Cadillac CTS engine with DIG Direct Injection Gas engines getting great performance with the E85 gas?
The VVT DI V6 doesn't have E85 capability...not sure why either... But it does get better mileage and fuel economy. 27hwy which is very good in a massive car like the CTS, especially under the new EPA ratings.

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This coupled with the Active Fuel Management system would offer great gas milage and performance! The vette has Acitve Fuel Management and gets 27MPG.
Not anymore, . The new Vette no longer gets AFM, and under the new EPA standards, it has 26mpg, which is an improvement, the old way had it rated at 27 so....

I also think there may have been a slight misconception, here...E85 actually worsens fuel economy, it can provide more performance, but at the price of fuel economy...

i.e. Chevy Impala:

3.9L V6 VVT and AFM: 18/28 mpg
same engine running E85: 13/20 mpg

it's only major selling point at this time is it burns clean.
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
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The VVT DI V6 doesn't have E85 capability...not sure why either... But it does get better mileage and fuel economy. 27hwy which is very good in a massive car like the CTS, especially under the new EPA ratings.


Not anymore, . The new Vette no longer gets AFM, and under the new EPA standards, it has 26mpg, which is an improvement, the old way had it rated at 27 so....

I also think there may have been a slight misconception, here...E85 actually worsens fuel economy, it can provide more performance, but at the price of fuel economy...

i.e. Chevy Impala:

3.9L V6 VVT and AFM: 18/28 mpg
same engine running E85: 13/20 mpg

it's only major selling point at this time is it burns clean.
That coupled (hopefully) with it being a fair bit cheaper then petrol... but this is still early stages for E85.. if the car companies are serious about using it they'll get their R & D fully on the case when it comes to MPG.

The only problem i can see from this then is getting enough fuel in to the cylinders on high power cars... could cause detonation problems.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:04 PM   #21
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85 ~$2.69, 87 ~$2.79, 91 ~$2.89, 93 ~$2.99, 105 ~$9.05, 110 ~$15.00 down here. I run nothing less than 93 in my Maro. and if I happen to stop at a station that doesnt have 93 (only 91) Ill dump a bottle of racing octane boost in when I fill up. then again, im runnin 12.3:1 compression in my beast, so I have to keep the octane high.

the main thing with switching to E85 is that there is no drastic need to switch. yeah, it might be better for the world, but 90% people dont care enough to go out and switch their beloved gas guzzler to this "ethanol" fuel that they have heard about. (Im using quotes to explain how little people have investigated the long term benefits of ethanol fuel)
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:35 PM   #22
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thank god i live in south dakota, with corn fields everywhere you look...VERY cheap around here, not sure exactly what it is but i know its almost a dollar cheaper than 87. too bad my honda cant use it :-( lol
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:48 AM   #23
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(be forewarned, this post may contain rambling and/or harsh opinions)

Ethanol is being pressed mainly by people who stand to profit from its use plus enviros who haven't done the research. In case any of you suspect that I don't care for farmers, most of my aunts and uncles still operate farms, some as their primary income. This evening on a science news show on discovery channel they interviewed a professor from Stanford University. A couple of things he mentioned were that the pollution caused by burning ethanol in all cars and trucks on the road now would result in more deaths than are currently linked to 'regular' emmissions. this is expected because of the increased levels of ozone that would result. Now, ozone high up is good, helps protect us from the sun. down low it is toxic, acts as a greenhouse gas, and helps create smog. Also, nobody seems to ask the question of where all the crops to produce biofuel will come from. Seems like cutting down forests to grow crops is a bad idea to reduce global warming. Also, it is not likely that small family farms will particularly benefit from ethanol. A good portion of farming is now done on a massive industrial scale and it is likely that these megafarms will get the supplying contracts,

The bottom line is, nothing is perfect. Everything has its good points and bad. Remeber, using ethanol still creates greenhouse gasses like CO2, it just produces less than gasoline per mile, but not by as much as you would imagine. And that is taking into account the fact that the crops take in CO2 while they grow. It takes a lot of energy to turn sugar into alcohol. and it needs to be 100% pure with no water before it gets added to the gasoline to make E85. Ask someone who makes moonshine about how hard that is to accomplish. For now, gasoline is the best way to currently fuel vehicles until it becomes cheap to use hydrogen or electric cars become popular. Until then, I will take a muscle car that gets 30 mpg on the highway.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:53 AM   #24
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I think another of main reasons that it is pushed, yet they don't talk about - is the potential to drastically reduce dependance on Foriegn oil. Whether or not it's cleaner than gas - that point can't be argued...very well...

I know it's not perfectly clean and the only clen source of trans. would be hydrogen-electric, or pure electric - but then some could argue, "well it takes too much energy to produce pure hydrogen", or "the electricity is produced by burning coal, which is just as bad as cars"...There's always another side, another critic. (this was not directed at you DGthe3)

There is no one solution - but E85 can be a transitional fuel, and a permanent solution in some places...
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:23 AM   #25
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There is no one solution - but E85 can be a transitional fuel, and a permanent solution in some places...
For sure. And those permanent solutions are being researched. With hydrogen, it is expensive and not a source of energy, just a form of storage. It takes energy to get it into a gas, more than when you burn it or put it through a fuel cell. Electrolysis of water (the reverse of what happens in a fuel cell) is very ineffient and works only on a limmited scale. New methods are being developed that are expected to bring the cost down and the scale up. In fact a former professor of mine is working on that right now.
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For instance, the Faculty is currently cooperating with Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) to develop a method using heat from nuclear reactors in a thermochemical cycle to decompose water into its basic components of oxygen and hydrogen. Hydrogen burns cleanly, but one of its production challenges is the creation of large quantities in a cost-efficient manner, Dr. Naterer says. He envisions thermochemical plants that sit close to nuclear facilities, using spent heat from the nuclear plant and steam to generate the new hydrogen fuel source
http://engineering.uoit.ca/people/features/naterer.php
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:37 AM   #26
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Could you see in the far away future driving a vehicle with a nuclear reactor under the hood? :eek:

I'm very excited for the future - there are numerous emerging technologies that are very promising. But to be honest, the only thing I'll miss about our conventional vehicles will be the gurgle, and roar of an American V8...
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:42 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Could you see in the far away future driving a vehicle with a nuclear reactor under the hood? :eek:

I'm very excited for the future - there are numerous emerging technologies that are very promising. But to be honest, the only thing I'll miss about our conventional vehicles will be the gurgle, and roar of an American V8...
How true. I doubt many people love the hum of an electric car, but there are plenty that won't want to give up hearing the rumble of a V8, or the sound of a harley, or the purr of an exotic.
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:46 AM   #28
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maybe, they can make..."loud" electrics...

All I know, is that when I heard the Tesla Roadster take off for the first time, It sounded like an okay replacement. it didn't just hum, it...Have you ever heard an expensive RC car go fast? Kinda like that, but more full...
I could get used to that.
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