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Old 01-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #43
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^
LOL

I agree, but GM's been using it all over the place.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:46 PM   #44
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Can a person shift more effectively than a machine. Aren't the main reasons for buying a standard tranny to be;
More affordable
Save on fuel
Just fun to do (shifting gears)
What is the benefit after those? Downshifting?
I geuss the ? should be what is the benefit as apposed to an automatic transm?
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:52 PM   #45
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what is the purpose for double clutch down shifting?

also when i am slowing to stop @ a light for example i usually just put it back in N roll to a stop and go from there is it wrong to do so and not down shift? there is no need..?
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:52 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irpq11 View Post
Can a person shift more effectively than a machine. Aren't the main reasons for buying a standard tranny to be;
More affordable
Save on fuel
Just fun to do (shifting gears)
What is the benefit after those? Downshifting?
I geuss the ? should be what is the benefit as apposed to an automatic transm?
Other than drag racing, (which I believe to be a toss up) a manual transmission is better for High performance applications. especially road racing. Seat of the pants sensors will always be better at keeping the car going fast around the track.

My personal opinion for drag cars (Not daily driver, weekend drag cars), real competitive drag cars, is that when geared to get the car to it's top speed at the end of a quarter mile with no traction loss etc., Autos are hard to beat. But can be beat by a real good manual driver.

FWIW.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 5th_GEN_SS View Post
what is the purpose for double clutch down shifting?

also when i am slowing to stop @ a light for example i usually just put it back in N roll to a stop and go from there is it wrong to do so and not down shift? there is no need..?
You are right for what you describe there is no need to double clutch or heel toe.

But lets say you wanted to be going as fast as you can up to the intersection, then go as fast as you can while making a left hand turn through the intersection? You'd be going way to fast when you got to the intersection, so you'd wait till the last second, brake hard and down shift with the above techniques. That way you are going as fast as possible and are in the correct gear to keep the engine in the power band through the turn....

Make sense? these techniques aren't really any good for daily driving.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:05 PM   #48
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Is it seen as "ok" to feather the clutch (let off the clutch partially just enough to get the car rolling) when backing up or pulling into a parking spot, etc?
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:20 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irpq11 View Post
Can a person shift more effectively than a machine. Aren't the main reasons for buying a standard tranny to be; [...]
What is the benefit after those? Downshifting?
I geuss the ? should be what is the benefit as apposed to an automatic transm?
I've never understood why people think you can't downshift an automatic. Besides the fact that you can't AVOID downshifting when you step on the gas pedal, there's always those numbers on the other side of the 'D'; and modern cars (especially the Camaro) come with manual modes that are designed for you to select your gears.
/rant

Anyway, the manual is more fun for a lot of people (me), can get better fuel economy, and is less expensive to buy (as you said).

I think with an appropriate driver, the Camaro will be faster with the automatic than with the manual. People talk about manual-driving skill, but nobody ever talks about automatic-driving skill; most of the tricks you can do with a manual can be done with an automatic, and automatics have a few exclusive tricks of their own too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th_GEN_SS View Post
what is the purpose for double clutch down shifting?
Double-clutching can do two things:
- Get you into gear more quickly than a normal shift
- Reduce synchro wear (in case you were worried about it, which I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be)

Quote:
also when i am slowing to stop @ a light for example i usually just put it back in N roll to a stop and go from there is it wrong to do so and not down shift? there is no need..?
It's fine. Some people downshift through every gear on the way to a stop because they have superstitions either that you must use gears sequentially or that they'll suddenly need to accelerate to avoid an accident (and therefore fear neutral).
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:26 PM   #50
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Is it seen as "ok" to feather the clutch (let off the clutch partially just enough to get the car rolling) when backing up or pulling into a parking spot, etc?
Yes that is ok. Just don't rev the motor while "ridding" the clutch like that.

Bad news.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:07 PM   #51
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Yes automatics can be downshifted, but especially in simple automatics with manual modes (as is present in the Camaro) there is a delay, so manually downshifting an automatic isn't necessarily much faster than downshifting a manual. The performance gap is certainly shrinking, and some say DCTs and other auto-clutch manuals will make true manuals obsolete, but I still see some degree of greater control with a true manual.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:15 PM   #52
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The delay in most automatics I've driven is no longer than the time it takes to execute a friendly non-DC shift. If you're good at double-clutching you can certainly get it done faster with a manual. Then again, maybe the Camaro will be programmed to respond immediately.

However, the reason cited for downshifting being so important to manuals (but incorrectly cited as unavailable in automatics) is to prepare ahead of time. For that you don't need a DC-speed downshift.

If you've been taken by surprise, an automatic in "Sport" or "Power" mode will be way faster and more responsive to the gas pedal than manually downshifting the automatic or any driver's shifting of a manual transmission.

I still prefer manual.
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