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Old 12-03-2010, 03:07 PM   #1
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Thumbs up The King is Back. Camaro Set to Outsell Mustang First Time in Quarter Century!

Year to date sales chart by Enator from: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118095]




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Here are the Camaro stats through November 2010:

--> http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118095
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:09 PM   #2
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Great news but I predict the Mustang will outsell the Camaro in 2011.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:09 PM   #3
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:18 PM   #4
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Good job GM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:36 PM   #5
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Jeeze! One of these days I am going to be the first person to post an article like this on this website! I was just about to start a thread about this and i say to myself "hmm...i wonder what "the king is back" is all about"

But yeah, great news GM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:40 PM   #6
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Great news but I predict the Mustang will outsell the Camaro in 2011.
Not likely. Their combined totals with convertibles can't touch Camaro coupe numbers. Add in the Camaro Converts and the small numbers of Z28s that will be purchased. 2011 will be owned by the Camaro.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:19 AM   #7
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Not likely. Their combined totals with convertibles can't touch Camaro coupe numbers. Add in the Camaro Converts and the small numbers of Z28s that will be purchased. 2011 will be owned by the Camaro.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:52 AM   #8
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Oh well mustangs are fugly, they already look 3 generations old. Rims are horrid they MUST be swapped immediately
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:16 PM   #9
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The only thing of course, is that familiarity breeds contempt. I know there are many on here who think that the Mustang is a dime a dozen. The Camaro will more than likely seem the same in 5 or 6 years. (for you guys anyway.)
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:27 PM   #10
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I agree that dollar for dollar mod for mod in pretty much every way the new 5.0s and SS's, and 6 cyl's of both are equal in almost every way.

Cept stangs are FUGLY well that and I feel that the stang rims look like they came off a Kia econo box and the stock SS rims are the sexiest rims in existence.

I dont mind brands. I want the best overall value and looks. Ive had a 5.0 lx fox body T top mustang, a built Mitsubishi Evolution 8, honda and suzuki crotch rockets, Scion xB and a tC, F150 FX4 and Silverados.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:23 PM   #11
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I don't know about "the king is back", If I were king I should have been outselling the competition for the last 25 years. This is good for the Camaro this year, but the current trend has the Camaro plummeting in the market year over year. Even though the marketing guys push the idea of "Camaro sales are up 32% from last year", don't forget, last year was only an 8 month year for the Camaro (Late April-December). Sales are down by almost 25% according to the charts posted on this website year by year.

I can see a pushed Mid model redesign coming soon, Vert sales will help, but I'm afraid that a convertible Camaro will only cannibalize coupe sales and not add any additional sales beyond the impulse buyer. In fact, hold offs might be affecting coupe sales now and by April, those hold offs may hold out again (people who hold out usually hold out by nature and never commit). People who want a convertible will find a convertible regardless of the make and model.. that's the kind of people they are.

I don't think an interior adjustment that's coming in 2012 will be enough to tip the scales over 70k units a year. People see the outside first and identify the product as aged or common. As it stands now, the 2nd MY Camaro should not be selling 4-5k a month, this looks like an exhausted sales product. The Mustangs current model is "exhausted", everyone who wanted a '05-'11 Mustang bought one (around 600k) and the people trickling in are trade ins, hold offs/Do it now or never do it (like myself), hype buyers (guilty again) or impulse buyers (strike three). I know seasonal consumer patterns are going to happen, those same seasonal patterns didn't (or shouldn't) affect a new products sales from the types of buyers I posted above (compare '09 fall/winter sales with this years).

All I ask is, when and if the mid model redesign concept is raised, do not be so objective as original owners to any new ideas or different designs. I have scanned the Photoshop pages and found that everyone wants the same thing, which is the same thing they have now.... As brand enthusiast, welcome some change or the product will not last, Its going to be very challenging for GM to recreate the excitement as they did with the '10 and whats worse, they created a stubborn fanbase that hates anything other than what they currently have.... Welcome some change or 2011 will be just as bad as this year.

I have seen alot of great renditions of the current design, concepts of both Z28 and future builds, and all those concepts were shot down in a hail of negative post...

In retrospect, The Camaro will win the sales race this year but in overall sales throughout its first two MYs has me concerned. There should be no reason that a 1 1/2 year product is slumping already and this will no doubt push an exterior remodel. the sales were good vs. the Mustang, but were they as good as the '05, '06 and '07?... No.. As of now, the Camaro (20 months) has sold just as many units as the '05 Mustang did in 12 months (160k), Ford went on to duplicate those sales in '06 (150k) and '07 (132k)...

Do something GM....
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:29 PM   #12
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This is great news for GM!

It is a double edged sword for owners, however. The ever increasing number of Camaros will help keep prices down on parts, mods and such. However it will also put ever increasing numbers of Camaros on the roads, reducing the exclusivity of the car and making them constantly visible.
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:37 PM   #13
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The Camaro is and will be fine. Last year was a huge year due to pent up demand. This year is the baseline. Ford DEEPLY discounted it's 2010's and even after that and a much better engine selection they aren't winning. They're are people that are still waiting for the Camaro convertible. My dealer has a woman that has had a deposit on one for 6 years now. People love the Camaro and Convertible lovers have no problem waiting. It will not cannibalize coupe sales in any major way and if it does it'll only mean higher profits. The 2010 Mustang was a joke. If it wasn't for the Camaro ford would have kept selling that boat anchor of a V6 and tired old 4.6L. The 2011 Mustang is what they should have released. It's styling has grown on me over time but it's still the same car as the 2005 with very little change. The Camaro is still fresh and new. We already know the 2012 will have a slight update to the interior and the Z28 will come also. 2014 we'll have a completely new lighter platform for the Camaro. Ford is no longer the king. Reviewers can say what they want but it doesn't matter. Sales do.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by v6sonoma View Post
The Camaro is and will be fine. Last year was a huge year due to pent up demand. This year is the baseline. Ford DEEPLY discounted it's 2010's and even after that and a much better engine selection they aren't winning. They're are people that are still waiting for the Camaro convertible. My dealer has a woman that has had a deposit on one for 6 years now. People love the Camaro and Convertible lovers have no problem waiting. It will not cannibalize coupe sales in any major way and if it does it'll only mean higher profits. The 2010 Mustang was a joke. If it wasn't for the Camaro ford would have kept selling that boat anchor of a V6 and tired old 4.6L. The 2011 Mustang is what they should have released. It's styling has grown on me over time but it's still the same car as the 2005 with very little change. The Camaro is still fresh and new. We already know the 2012 will have a slight update to the interior and the Z28 will come also. 2014 we'll have a completely new lighter platform for the Camaro. Ford is no longer the king. Reviewers can say what they want but it doesn't matter. Sales do.
1st, there is no way Ford should win, It shouldn't even be a contest. Ford only produces half of what GM does (6000 vs 10000 a month until recently). It is impossible for Ford to outsell GM if GM pushes units 2:1, GM produced 129k 2010s and only sold 99k of them in a 16 month model year, Ford made almost 76k 2010s and sold almost 76k of them. If Ford only made 60% of what GM produced, even if Ford sold 100% of what they made (which it is very close) they could not have outsold GM this year. Ford sold what they put on the lots, GM still had 30k 2010s unsold as of 3 June 2010 when MY11 opened.

The 4.6 was not a joke, it was a 15 year Research and Development tool and is directly responsible for the current 5.0. Why would Ford increase horsepower if there is NO competition. Do you see a GT500 HP increase this year? because there is NO competition...

The Camaro is no longer new, if it was, it wouldn't be slumping after 20 months. I spent 45 minutes with a new Camaro on Monday for a spring photo shoot and I can say, It grew on me pretty quick, the novelty wore off. It is actually the same size as my supervisors 2010 Taurus, I seen them on the road, In fact, he sold it because he was sick of the interior, the mass and he didn't find it appealing anymore. http://www.ramsteinyardsales.com/ite...411&src=SEARCH

Yes, sales do matter.. and if GM couldn't pull at least a sales win out this year they would be in the Challengers shoes. The Z28? 12 months away, the Vert? will cannibalize coupe sales as does all convertibles do to their coupe siblings. Interior? its a start, but a new exterior will get them in the lot. Whats next?

Discounts? You mean cash back? Don't be fooled by bonuses that are masked as MSRP adjustments at the end of a models life... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...35#post2555135

The Camaro shouldn't be neck and neck with a 2005 Mustang GT with a 5.0 and revised front fascia and rear.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:06 PM   #15
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I like the mustang to a point but I could never have the passion for it the way I do Camaro, I was born and breed to drive GM. People just love the styling of the Camaro and I get drooling and compliments from ford people all the time. Where I live there are dozens of people in my small town that run stangs, and there isn't a whole lot special about seeing one. The new Camaro is a different story.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:13 PM   #16
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Great news but I predict the Mustang will outsell the Camaro in 2011.
Maybe but I bought a 2011 Camaro over the Mustang lol, Camaro is more of a head turner so that might help it win.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:25 PM   #17
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Great news but I predict the Mustang will outsell the Camaro in 2011.
No way Jose.

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Old 12-04-2010, 04:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by thePill View Post
(Free writing)
I don't know about "the king is back", If I were king I should have been outselling the competition for the last 25 years. This is good for the Camaro this year, but the current trend has the Camaro plummeting in the market year over year. Even though the marketing guys push the idea of "Camaro sales are up 32% from last year", don't forget, last year was only an 8 month year for the Camaro (Late April-December). Sales are down by almost 25% according to the charts posted on this website year by year.

I can see a pushed Mid model redesign coming soon, Vert sales will help, but I'm afraid that a convertible Camaro will only cannibalize coupe sales and not add any additional sales beyond the impulse buyer. In fact, hold offs might be affecting coupe sales now and by April, those hold offs may hold out again (people who hold out usually hold out by nature and never commit). People who want a convertible will find a convertible regardless of the make and model.. that's the kind of people they are.

I don't think an interior adjustment that's coming in 2012 will be enough to tip the scales over 70k units a year. People see the outside first and identify the product as aged or common. As it stands now, the 2nd MY Camaro should not be selling 4-5k a month, this looks like an exhausted sales product. The Mustangs current model is "exhausted", everyone who wanted a '05-'11 Mustang bought one (around 600k) and the people trickling in are trade ins, hold offs/Do it now or never do it (like myself), hype buyers (guilty again) or impulse buyers (strike three). I know seasonal consumer patterns are going to happen, those same seasonal patterns didn't (or shouldn't) affect a new products sales from the types of buyers I posted above (compare '09 fall/winter sales with this years).

All I ask is, when and if the mid model redesign concept is raised, do not be so objective as original owners to any new ideas or different designs. I have scanned the Photoshop pages and found that everyone wants the same thing, which is the same thing they have now.... As brand enthusiast, welcome some change or the product will not last, Its going to be very challenging for GM to recreate the excitement as they did with the '10 and whats worse, they created a stubborn fanbase that hates anything other than what they currently have.... Welcome some change or 2011 will be just as bad as this year.

I have seen alot of great renditions of the current design, concepts of both Z28 and future builds, and all those concepts were shot down in a hail of negative post...

In retrospect, The Camaro will win the sales race this year but in overall sales throughout its first two MYs has me concerned. There should be no reason that a 1 1/2 year product is slumping already and this will no doubt push an exterior remodel. the sales were good vs. the Mustang, but were they as good as the '05, '06 and '07?... No.. As of now, the Camaro (20 months) has sold just as many units as the '05 Mustang did in 12 months (160k), Ford went on to duplicate those sales in '06 (150k) and '07 (132k)...

Do something GM....
Do you own a new Camaro? Why does a Ford guy hang out at a Camaro forum.


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Old 12-04-2010, 04:59 PM   #19
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There's no doubt... CAMARO IS BACK
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:00 PM   #20
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Do you own a new Camaro? Why does a Ford guy hang out at a Camaro forum.


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Old 12-04-2010, 05:09 PM   #21
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:50 PM   #22
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This is great news for GM!

It is a double edged sword for owners, however. The ever increasing number of Camaros will help keep prices down on parts, mods and such. However it will also put ever increasing numbers of Camaros on the roads, reducing the exclusivity of the car and making them constantly visible.
I agree with ViperTomcat, it slightly happened with the 5th gen Mustang before the Camaro came out. You were on the road and everyone and their grandma s had a mustang and was really taking away the appeal of the car itself which was a shame because I actually liked the look of the mustang back then. Now with the release of the Challenger and strong sales of the Camaro things are balancing themselves out. However if you are looking into exclusivity wise then my money "IMO" would be the 1.)Challenger 2.)Camaro 3.) Mustang. I'm just looking into this in a sales units sold and significance of the car during the time.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:03 PM   #23
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I don't know about "the king is back", If I were king I should have been outselling the competition for the last 25 years. This is good for the Camaro this year, but the current trend has the Camaro plummeting in the market year over year. Even though the marketing guys push the idea of "Camaro sales are up 32% from last year", don't forget, last year was only an 8 month year for the Camaro (Late April-December). Sales are down by almost 25% according to the charts posted on this website year by year.

I can see a pushed Mid model redesign coming soon, Vert sales will help, but I'm afraid that a convertible Camaro will only cannibalize coupe sales and not add any additional sales beyond the impulse buyer. In fact, hold offs might be affecting coupe sales now and by April, those hold offs may hold out again (people who hold out usually hold out by nature and never commit). People who want a convertible will find a convertible regardless of the make and model.. that's the kind of people they are.

I don't think an interior adjustment that's coming in 2012 will be enough to tip the scales over 70k units a year. People see the outside first and identify the product as aged or common. As it stands now, the 2nd MY Camaro should not be selling 4-5k a month, this looks like an exhausted sales product. The Mustangs current model is "exhausted", everyone who wanted a '05-'11 Mustang bought one (around 600k) and the people trickling in are trade ins, hold offs/Do it now or never do it (like myself), hype buyers (guilty again) or impulse buyers (strike three). I know seasonal consumer patterns are going to happen, those same seasonal patterns didn't (or shouldn't) affect a new products sales from the types of buyers I posted above (compare '09 fall/winter sales with this years).

All I ask is, when and if the mid model redesign concept is raised, do not be so objective as original owners to any new ideas or different designs. I have scanned the Photoshop pages and found that everyone wants the same thing, which is the same thing they have now.... As brand enthusiast, welcome some change or the product will not last, Its going to be very challenging for GM to recreate the excitement as they did with the '10 and whats worse, they created a stubborn fanbase that hates anything other than what they currently have.... Welcome some change or 2011 will be just as bad as this year.

I have seen alot of great renditions of the current design, concepts of both Z28 and future builds, and all those concepts were shot down in a hail of negative post...

In retrospect, The Camaro will win the sales race this year but in overall sales throughout its first two MYs has me concerned. There should be no reason that a 1 1/2 year product is slumping already and this will no doubt push an exterior remodel. the sales were good vs. the Mustang, but were they as good as the '05, '06 and '07?... No.. As of now, the Camaro (20 months) has sold just as many units as the '05 Mustang did in 12 months (160k), Ford went on to duplicate those sales in '06 (150k) and '07 (132k)...

Do something GM....
There were no other choices in 05, 06, 07 but to buy a Mustang, so that is not a reasonable comparison. Plus, the economy was in far better shape. The only choice you had was a relatively expensive gto with no v6 option to push the volume. Of course there will be a slump after the first year on such a highly anticipated model, there were a lot of people waiting a LONG time to buy the Camaro. I think sales have leveled off, and are right alongside the Mustang, so I don't see how they could be considered bad.

As for the Mustang being king in sales all those years, GM had the Firebird, and to a lesser extent the corvette to cannibalize sales from the Camaro for those that wanted a performance vehicle from GM. Ford only had the Mustang. I am not saying the Mustang doesn't have an impressive sales history, just pointing out that it is a bit more complicated than you make it sound.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:36 PM   #24
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1st, there is no way Ford should win, It shouldn't even be a contest. Ford only produces half of what GM does (6000 vs 10000 a month until recently). It is impossible for Ford to outsell GM if GM pushes units 2:1, GM produced 129k 2010s and only sold 99k of them in a 16 month model year, Ford made almost 76k 2010s and sold almost 76k of them. If Ford only made 60% of what GM produced, even if Ford sold 100% of what they made (which it is very close) they could not have outsold GM this year. Ford sold what they put on the lots, GM still had 30k 2010s unsold as of 3 June 2010 when MY11 opened.

The 4.6 was not a joke, it was a 15 year Research and Development tool and is directly responsible for the current 5.0. Why would Ford increase horsepower if there is NO competition. Do you see a GT500 HP increase this year? because there is NO competition...

The Camaro is no longer new, if it was, it wouldn't be slumping after 20 months. I spent 45 minutes with a new Camaro on Monday for a spring photo shoot and I can say, It grew on me pretty quick, the novelty wore off. It is actually the same size as my supervisors 2010 Taurus, I seen them on the road, In fact, he sold it because he was sick of the interior, the mass and he didn't find it appealing anymore. http://www.ramsteinyardsales.com/ite...411&src=SEARCH

Yes, sales do matter.. and if GM couldn't pull at least a sales win out this year they would be in the Challengers shoes. The Z28? 12 months away, the Vert? will cannibalize coupe sales as does all convertibles do to their coupe siblings. Interior? its a start, but a new exterior will get them in the lot. Whats next?

Discounts? You mean cash back? Don't be fooled by bonuses that are masked as MSRP adjustments at the end of a models life... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...35#post2555135

The Camaro shouldn't be neck and neck with a 2005 Mustang GT with a 5.0 and revised front fascia and rear.
The problem with your argument is that part of the reason why Ford sold almost all it's 2010's is because they discounted them over $8k so they didn't sit on the lots for all eternity. GM has only offered an accessory incentive of $1,500 on remaining 2010's and in spite of Ford putting decent engines in the mustang the Camaro is still ahead month to month. While the Mustang 5.0's newness came and went and their sales jump died almost instantly. That is the difference. Clearly we are not going to agree. Time will tell and I'm confident that the Camaro will be just fine.

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7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M
9/26/09 Took delivery!
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:38 PM   #25
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
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Well...technically it outsold the Mustang last year, too....

Still, cool!!! With no incentives, convertible, or Z28 to boot!!


It's great to see both cars doing so well, with the Challenger still strongly pulling up the rear!
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