Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Rick@Livernois
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-04-2010, 05:30 PM   #18
BowlingSS
Camaro Owner Since 1987
 
BowlingSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS L99 RJT
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
(Free writing)
I don't know about "the king is back", If I were king I should have been outselling the competition for the last 25 years. This is good for the Camaro this year, but the current trend has the Camaro plummeting in the market year over year. Even though the marketing guys push the idea of "Camaro sales are up 32% from last year", don't forget, last year was only an 8 month year for the Camaro (Late April-December). Sales are down by almost 25% according to the charts posted on this website year by year.

I can see a pushed Mid model redesign coming soon, Vert sales will help, but I'm afraid that a convertible Camaro will only cannibalize coupe sales and not add any additional sales beyond the impulse buyer. In fact, hold offs might be affecting coupe sales now and by April, those hold offs may hold out again (people who hold out usually hold out by nature and never commit). People who want a convertible will find a convertible regardless of the make and model.. that's the kind of people they are.

I don't think an interior adjustment that's coming in 2012 will be enough to tip the scales over 70k units a year. People see the outside first and identify the product as aged or common. As it stands now, the 2nd MY Camaro should not be selling 4-5k a month, this looks like an exhausted sales product. The Mustangs current model is "exhausted", everyone who wanted a '05-'11 Mustang bought one (around 600k) and the people trickling in are trade ins, hold offs/Do it now or never do it (like myself), hype buyers (guilty again) or impulse buyers (strike three). I know seasonal consumer patterns are going to happen, those same seasonal patterns didn't (or shouldn't) affect a new products sales from the types of buyers I posted above (compare '09 fall/winter sales with this years).

All I ask is, when and if the mid model redesign concept is raised, do not be so objective as original owners to any new ideas or different designs. I have scanned the Photoshop pages and found that everyone wants the same thing, which is the same thing they have now.... As brand enthusiast, welcome some change or the product will not last, Its going to be very challenging for GM to recreate the excitement as they did with the '10 and whats worse, they created a stubborn fanbase that hates anything other than what they currently have.... Welcome some change or 2011 will be just as bad as this year.

I have seen alot of great renditions of the current design, concepts of both Z28 and future builds, and all those concepts were shot down in a hail of negative post...

In retrospect, The Camaro will win the sales race this year but in overall sales throughout its first two MYs has me concerned. There should be no reason that a 1 1/2 year product is slumping already and this will no doubt push an exterior remodel. the sales were good vs. the Mustang, but were they as good as the '05, '06 and '07?... No.. As of now, the Camaro (20 months) has sold just as many units as the '05 Mustang did in 12 months (160k), Ford went on to duplicate those sales in '06 (150k) and '07 (132k)...

Do something GM....
Do you own a new Camaro? Why does a Ford guy hang out at a Camaro forum.


Bill
__________________
2011 Camaro 2SS/RS L99 RJT
CAI, Inc. Cold Air Induction;ADM Scoop
Rx Catch Can;Rx Breather;Roto-Fab Washer Container
VMax Ported RJT Throttle Body
XSPower Headers and XSPower 3" Exhaust System
Elite Engineering Tunnel Brace,
Gorilla Wheel Lock System;
Tinted Windows 35%;EFILive Tune
BowlingSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 05:59 PM   #19
Revo1
Don't Like it? Suggit.
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 14,842


There's no doubt... CAMARO IS BACK
__________________

"Tops off, tach up baby- loud and proud!"
A Camaro lover from day one- 1996 3.8 V6 Camaro, to 1996 5.7 LT1 Camaro Z28, to the sold 2002 5.7 LS1 Camaro SS, and NOW, a [I]6.2 L99 VR 2SS/RS: XS Power stainless full exhaust, Airaid CAI, BMR drop springs and sways, custom tune by Cal Speed- 411rwhp
Revo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 06:00 PM   #20
CamaroSoldier
 
CamaroSoldier's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 1LT/RS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS View Post
Do you own a new Camaro? Why does a Ford guy hang out at a Camaro forum.


Bill
I know right lol, they dont know sh*t if they dont own a camaro!
CamaroSoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 06:09 PM   #21
13lackSS4ME
 
13lackSS4ME's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS 6M blk/blk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Inglewood, CA
Posts: 29
i'd like to say i helped out a little
__________________
13lackSS4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:50 PM   #22
Char1ieone
Fear the Red Bow Tie
 
Char1ieone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: La Mesa/Las Cruces, NM & El Paso, TX
Posts: 1,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
This is great news for GM!

It is a double edged sword for owners, however. The ever increasing number of Camaros will help keep prices down on parts, mods and such. However it will also put ever increasing numbers of Camaros on the roads, reducing the exclusivity of the car and making them constantly visible.
I agree with ViperTomcat, it slightly happened with the 5th gen Mustang before the Camaro came out. You were on the road and everyone and their grandma s had a mustang and was really taking away the appeal of the car itself which was a shame because I actually liked the look of the mustang back then. Now with the release of the Challenger and strong sales of the Camaro things are balancing themselves out. However if you are looking into exclusivity wise then my money "IMO" would be the 1.)Challenger 2.)Camaro 3.) Mustang. I'm just looking into this in a sales units sold and significance of the car during the time.
Char1ieone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:03 PM   #23
rayhawk

 
rayhawk's Avatar
 
Drives: Trailblazer SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
(Free writing)
I don't know about "the king is back", If I were king I should have been outselling the competition for the last 25 years. This is good for the Camaro this year, but the current trend has the Camaro plummeting in the market year over year. Even though the marketing guys push the idea of "Camaro sales are up 32% from last year", don't forget, last year was only an 8 month year for the Camaro (Late April-December). Sales are down by almost 25% according to the charts posted on this website year by year.

I can see a pushed Mid model redesign coming soon, Vert sales will help, but I'm afraid that a convertible Camaro will only cannibalize coupe sales and not add any additional sales beyond the impulse buyer. In fact, hold offs might be affecting coupe sales now and by April, those hold offs may hold out again (people who hold out usually hold out by nature and never commit). People who want a convertible will find a convertible regardless of the make and model.. that's the kind of people they are.

I don't think an interior adjustment that's coming in 2012 will be enough to tip the scales over 70k units a year. People see the outside first and identify the product as aged or common. As it stands now, the 2nd MY Camaro should not be selling 4-5k a month, this looks like an exhausted sales product. The Mustangs current model is "exhausted", everyone who wanted a '05-'11 Mustang bought one (around 600k) and the people trickling in are trade ins, hold offs/Do it now or never do it (like myself), hype buyers (guilty again) or impulse buyers (strike three). I know seasonal consumer patterns are going to happen, those same seasonal patterns didn't (or shouldn't) affect a new products sales from the types of buyers I posted above (compare '09 fall/winter sales with this years).

All I ask is, when and if the mid model redesign concept is raised, do not be so objective as original owners to any new ideas or different designs. I have scanned the Photoshop pages and found that everyone wants the same thing, which is the same thing they have now.... As brand enthusiast, welcome some change or the product will not last, Its going to be very challenging for GM to recreate the excitement as they did with the '10 and whats worse, they created a stubborn fanbase that hates anything other than what they currently have.... Welcome some change or 2011 will be just as bad as this year.

I have seen alot of great renditions of the current design, concepts of both Z28 and future builds, and all those concepts were shot down in a hail of negative post...

In retrospect, The Camaro will win the sales race this year but in overall sales throughout its first two MYs has me concerned. There should be no reason that a 1 1/2 year product is slumping already and this will no doubt push an exterior remodel. the sales were good vs. the Mustang, but were they as good as the '05, '06 and '07?... No.. As of now, the Camaro (20 months) has sold just as many units as the '05 Mustang did in 12 months (160k), Ford went on to duplicate those sales in '06 (150k) and '07 (132k)...

Do something GM....
There were no other choices in 05, 06, 07 but to buy a Mustang, so that is not a reasonable comparison. Plus, the economy was in far better shape. The only choice you had was a relatively expensive gto with no v6 option to push the volume. Of course there will be a slump after the first year on such a highly anticipated model, there were a lot of people waiting a LONG time to buy the Camaro. I think sales have leveled off, and are right alongside the Mustang, so I don't see how they could be considered bad.

As for the Mustang being king in sales all those years, GM had the Firebird, and to a lesser extent the corvette to cannibalize sales from the Camaro for those that wanted a performance vehicle from GM. Ford only had the Mustang. I am not saying the Mustang doesn't have an impressive sales history, just pointing out that it is a bit more complicated than you make it sound.
__________________
Hooters, hooters, yum yum yum, hooters, hooters on a girl thats dumb.
-Al Bundy

07 2WD Trailblazer SS, LS1 E-fans, 4" FWI, pcmforless tune
rayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:36 PM   #24
v6sonoma


 
v6sonoma's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS RS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 8,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
1st, there is no way Ford should win, It shouldn't even be a contest. Ford only produces half of what GM does (6000 vs 10000 a month until recently). It is impossible for Ford to outsell GM if GM pushes units 2:1, GM produced 129k 2010s and only sold 99k of them in a 16 month model year, Ford made almost 76k 2010s and sold almost 76k of them. If Ford only made 60% of what GM produced, even if Ford sold 100% of what they made (which it is very close) they could not have outsold GM this year. Ford sold what they put on the lots, GM still had 30k 2010s unsold as of 3 June 2010 when MY11 opened.

The 4.6 was not a joke, it was a 15 year Research and Development tool and is directly responsible for the current 5.0. Why would Ford increase horsepower if there is NO competition. Do you see a GT500 HP increase this year? because there is NO competition...

The Camaro is no longer new, if it was, it wouldn't be slumping after 20 months. I spent 45 minutes with a new Camaro on Monday for a spring photo shoot and I can say, It grew on me pretty quick, the novelty wore off. It is actually the same size as my supervisors 2010 Taurus, I seen them on the road, In fact, he sold it because he was sick of the interior, the mass and he didn't find it appealing anymore. http://www.ramsteinyardsales.com/ite...411&src=SEARCH

Yes, sales do matter.. and if GM couldn't pull at least a sales win out this year they would be in the Challengers shoes. The Z28? 12 months away, the Vert? will cannibalize coupe sales as does all convertibles do to their coupe siblings. Interior? its a start, but a new exterior will get them in the lot. Whats next?

Discounts? You mean cash back? Don't be fooled by bonuses that are masked as MSRP adjustments at the end of a models life... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...35#post2555135

The Camaro shouldn't be neck and neck with a 2005 Mustang GT with a 5.0 and revised front fascia and rear.
The problem with your argument is that part of the reason why Ford sold almost all it's 2010's is because they discounted them over $8k so they didn't sit on the lots for all eternity. GM has only offered an accessory incentive of $1,500 on remaining 2010's and in spite of Ford putting decent engines in the mustang the Camaro is still ahead month to month. While the Mustang 5.0's newness came and went and their sales jump died almost instantly. That is the difference. Clearly we are not going to agree. Time will tell and I'm confident that the Camaro will be just fine.

__________________

Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator.

7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M
9/26/09 Took delivery!
v6sonoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:38 PM   #25
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,412
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Well...technically it outsold the Mustang last year, too....

Still, cool!!! With no incentives, convertible, or Z28 to boot!!


It's great to see both cars doing so well, with the Challenger still strongly pulling up the rear!
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 11:36 PM   #26
Z28RockStar

 
Z28RockStar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS/RS CGM 6M, 2007 Harley Deluxe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dallas Tx
Posts: 1,981
ROIGHT!







__________________
Who doesn't love puppies and beer?
Z28RockStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 12:23 AM   #27
Fraxum


 
Fraxum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 Jetta. At least it's red.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Joisey
Posts: 3,877
Send a message via AIM to Fraxum
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidCigam View Post
Maybe but I bought a 2011 Camaro over the Mustang.
Me too. But I have to admit the Mustang 5.0 is very good. I could have been happy with either. But every time I get in and drive my Camaro, it is a great feeling. I made the right choice for me.

After 3 fourth gens I am happy to see the Camaro come back strong. Looking forward to a lighter version. 2014 sounds about right to get another one. I hope the power is still there.

Now on to the mods....
Fraxum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 12:39 AM   #28
"prima"Donna
HWAY STR
 
"prima"Donna's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 RJT - VIN#7085 & 2014 CRT C7
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 13,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSX_Camaro View Post
Not likely. Their combined totals with convertibles can't touch Camaro coupe numbers. Add in the Camaro Converts and the small numbers of Z28s that will be purchased. 2011 will be owned by the Camaro.
+1

__________________
~ HWAY STR 2 & HWAY STR ~
"prima"Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 02:09 AM   #29
harrington81
 
Drives: 2010 camaro 2ss red jewel
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: comox,b.c
Posts: 56
Your right! Why is this Ford guy on Camaro5. To let u know that 4.6 was a horrible engine. Have u ever seen one of those Ford engines in a shop? They are terrible to work on. That new 5.0 is a very nice engine but i would not wanna work on it 5-10 years down the road.
harrington81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 04:38 AM   #30
cardsfan09
 
cardsfan09's Avatar
 
Drives: SS/RS 6M, '98 Z71 p/u
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 51
You're sure right about the mess you'd get into working on the 5.0 ford motor. Can you imagine the mess after the timing chains breaks and sends who knows how many bent or broken valves through pistons, and just tears the crap out of the motor. I like my pushrod LS3 just fine. And one more little thing, what is that mustang maniac doing on our Camaro forum, lol, he sure isn't trying to make any friends is he???? I thought this forum is meant for lovers of a very fine automobile that Chevy has produced.
cardsfan09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 04:47 AM   #31
Vega
 
Vega's Avatar
 
Drives: 91' Camaro RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to Vega
So hows that for the "cheap interior, horrible visability, and fat design?" i think the public showed all the critics, especially those two-faced internet auto-reviewers, who the real winner is. I got seriously tired of seeing Camaro reviews in 2009 that said "this car is AMAZING! I just shat myself! And again! Everything is perfect, EXACTLY perfect!" and then in 2010 everything they praised about it they totally shot down, like the "innovative and exciting interior" they turned into "clumsy cheap plastic" the "sporty and stable independant suspension" they turned into "fat and slow reacting" it was rediculous to listen too. But alas, the public has spoken, and the customer is always right :-)

And as far as that Mustang guy goes, in his "drives" column it happens to say "2011 Mustang" so of course he's probly cryin himself to sleep. "but mines faster, and newer, and and, waaaa, its not supposed to be like thiisss, Mustangs are supposed to be Mr. Popularity agaaiinnn" Although in his defense (take it as you will though) id almost rather have my car sell less just cause i dont want every other car on the road to be the same thing im driving *cough cough* lol, id be super annoyed if i was stoked for years to get this AWSOME Camaro and here i got it and 5 miles outside the dealer the exact same one, color model and all, pulls up right next to me. Thats what makes me like the Challenger still, it may be waaayy behind but its so exclusive its actually pretty cool.

PS: On the engine discussion, the 4.6swere indeed horrible, the best thing they could do was they actually sounded pretty cool with the right cam but beyond that nada. The 5.0 is pretty awsome with all its power and efficiency but dual overhead camshafts? That'd be a nightmare to work on for the standard enthusiest. The LS motors however are among the best motors ive ever seen, and i dont just say this cause im a GM supporter (yes, GM, not juuust Chevy haha =P) but because hey, have you ever seen a blown LS motor? (not supercharged! I mean dead! lmao)...*cricket cricket*...nahh, lol, didnt think so, they're friggin bomb-proof with an eeennddless aftermarket, they're literally the perfect hot rod motor
Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 05:52 AM   #32
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6sonoma View Post
The problem with your argument is that part of the reason why Ford sold almost all it's 2010's is because they discounted them over $8k so they didn't sit on the lots for all eternity. GM has only offered an accessory incentive of $1,500 on remaining 2010's and in spite of Ford putting decent engines in the mustang the Camaro is still ahead month to month. While the Mustang 5.0's newness came and went and their sales jump died almost instantly. That is the difference. Clearly we are not going to agree. Time will tell and I'm confident that the Camaro will be just fine.
Ford gave a $2000 cash back bonuses on 2010s in January 2009, almost 4 months before they were on dealer lots. Same thing with the 2011 Mustang, I received a $2000 cash back bonus in March. Its hardly a clearance sale when units produced/sold in Jan, Feb and March were zero. I have heard of a few people getting $8k under MSRP for a 2010 but they were very few and that included the X-plan.

As far as a sales jump dying so quickly, it should... Seasonal trends always show a good 25-30% decrease in sales going into the fall. If Ford would have started production on the 2011s on 1 January 2010 with units on the lots by 1 March, Do you think the Camaro would have still outsold the Mustang or do you think the 7k unit gap would have held? Having an entire Spring/Summer to spike sales, 2011 hold outs would have only reflected Jan and Feb sales instead of the whole first quarter.

This year though, Ford intends to spike sales with a staggered MY release. The 2012 GT500s start production on 1 Jan 2011 opposed to the usual late April production along side the 2012 Mustangs. Last year, 3300 GT500s were ordered upon release with a "Ok to sale" in the summer leaving less than half as dealer deliveries. I am not sure how many GT500s were built last year (some say 5500) but those first quarter boost will even out slumping sales of the 2011 until April.

The Boss 302: Dealers are guaranteed one Boss (4600 dealers in the US and Canada) and additional 25% of Bosses will be allocated via a sales lottery that closed in September, you could be looking at 5700+ units. Most of the Boss pre orders took place 8 weeks ago and '12 GT500 (possibly the last GT500) pre orders are happening now so a sales spike is incoming on Fords side.

If Brand loyal Camaro hold outs wait for the Vert, it will have an enormous
effect on coupe sales and zero effect on Mustang sales. Sept to March is a very bad time for performance vehicle sales so I would expect a 4-5k units to be a regular trend (Dec/Jan sales will be the worst, Oshawa closes around that time). The 1st quarter leaves GM banking on a possible cannibal convertible, which the outcome in sales will not be clear until May/June.

Impulse buyers (the majority) are already on the GM lot, so I highly doubt they will pick up a Ford Mustang there and totally disregard the Camaro coupe. Hypes and Trade ins have either become Brand Loyal or were Impulsive and have moved on to something more impulsive and are forever locked in the trade in/impulse cycle.

The reason GM needs to do something is because Ford is playing very dirty. Staggering two different Mustang model years, releasing the Boss order guide far in advance and allocating those units and holding the sales stats until next year. GM knows Verts eat Coupe sales, Just as Special models do, but crossing your fingers at this point is not a solid plan.

Release the Z28 along with the Vert in April, Don't be afraid that Ford will one up them, of course they will but it won't happen this year... That's another opportunity lost, because top tier buyers do cross shop before they buy and now the '12 GT500 is alone again ready to spike Q1 sales... Plan interior/exterior redesigns for '13 leaving only two more MYs before the 6th Gen. By years end, this model will be stagnant and a fresh exterior will get them rolling again... I wouldn't bank on the Z28 tipping the sales very far, even if it did, the late release will be too late.

Insinuating that I need to own a Camaro to understand sales and marketing is about as practical as requiring Sales and Marketing to have a degree in Engineering. Although I do know quite a bit about the Camaro, none of the technical specifications actually applies to this topic.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 06:38 AM   #33
v6sonoma


 
v6sonoma's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS RS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 8,062
I'm sorry thePill but my brother is a Mustang fan and was looking into one around the time the 2011 was hitting dealers. Dealers were THROWING 2010's at you. Ford may have only given $2k but the dealers absorbed huge discounts. The sales jump wasn't stopped due to seasonal it lasted two months and fell back down under the camaro. The only reason it even existed was due to huge discounts on 2010's. You talk about how the Camaro convertible will only cannibalize coupe sales and then talk about the GT500 and Boss 302. Those will impact and cannibalize the Mustang GT's sales. The Camaro convertible will cannibalize Mustang Convertible sales not Camaro coupe sales. GM doesn't need to worry much about Fords model release timing. Ford needs to worry about GM's.

On a side note there's no reason for anyone to attack thePill. He's entitled to his opinion. Even if it's wrong.
__________________

Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator.

7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M
9/26/09 Took delivery!
v6sonoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 08:33 AM   #34
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6sonoma View Post
I'm sorry thePill but my brother is a Mustang fan and was looking into one around the time the 2011 was hitting dealers. Dealers were THROWING 2010's at you. Ford may have only given $2k but the dealers absorbed huge discounts. The sales jump wasn't stopped due to seasonal it lasted two months and fell back down under the camaro. The only reason it even existed was due to huge discounts on 2010's. You talk about how the Camaro convertible will only cannibalize coupe sales and then talk about the GT500 and Boss 302. Those will impact and cannibalize the Mustang GT's sales. The Camaro convertible will cannibalize Mustang Convertible sales not Camaro coupe sales. GM doesn't need to worry much about Fords model release timing. Ford needs to worry about GM's.

On a side note there's no reason for anyone to attack thePill. He's entitled to his opinion. Even if it's wrong.
Dealers will continue to discount the remaining 2010s, look for a strong December sales month from Ford over November sales (see last year). December is clean out month for dealers, it is up to the dealer to drop below MSRP and those reductions really do not concern Ford directly. Its the 0%APR at the end of a MY that involves Ford.

The GT500 and the Boss do directly eat into the base market if released simultaneously with the base product. SVT intends on beating Ford to the punch and taking orders/producing GT500s before the 2012 V6 and GTs roll out. Orders are being taken now and most or all of the GT500s will be gone by spring. Add those sales to the Cash Back bonuses on the 2011 Mustangs (sales will be considerably higher since there are no hold outs for model upgrades) and you will have a very successful Q1.

The Boss on the other hand is very different when ordering the unit. Dealers are only guaranteed one Boss, So they are selling them right now but not counting those sales until it is released. Alot of the SCCA guys over on their website are buying them up with cash in hand. Those Boss models will roll out before the V6s and GTs to ensure they make the 2011 season cutoff in March. I am afraid that regular people will have a hard time buying these cars without money in hand. Once the dealer sells a Boss, they get chipped and could receive an additional Boss 302 or even a Boss LS (about 794 top Mustang dealers will be allocated a 2nd Boss and 500 Boss LS's).. This is all according to the SCCA drivers though...

The seasonal slump, this happens every year regardless of year, make or model. Even the Camaro's sales last year around September took alittle dip but nothing too bad. That is typical of a new product when sales consist mostly of impulse buyers, sales remain strong even through seasonal or economical trends. This is why CY09 everybody said the product was perfect, then CY10 people began to nitpick the product.. Impulse buyers develop tunnel vision and can usually never be turned away once they are set. The Mustang took a beating throughout the fall/winter of '09 and will most likely repeat a similar trend this year. Although, with the exception of August, sales have been better this year as opposed to last. Seeing a 10-20% increase in sales over last year at this time is pretty good when performance was the selling point and nothing else. Once dealers get a solid Job #1 date for the V6 and GT, expect those dealer incentives (not factory incentives) to pepper the entire remaining 2010 fleet. Nobody wants a 2010 Mustang in 2011, might as well be a used car but, the December flood will be dictated by remaining stock which could be very, very low...

Again, special models do cannibalize the base stock but the way Ford is playing it this year is kinda under the table dirty. Unless I specifically approach a dealer and request a GT500 or Boss 302 first, I could not be offered one at all. Also, since this is not common knowledge and Ford has jumped the gun significantly, the regular impulsive lot browser could miss out completely. SCCA guys are buying the hell out of the Boss 302...

That being said, a simultaneous release of the '12 convertible with '12 coupe will directly effect the sales of the coupe dramatically. the majority of people may opt for the V6 convertible over the SS coupe/vert due to price. Convertible people are unique, usually care/know nothing about the car other than the top coming down and will readily snub anything else on the lot that is not a drop top. There are exceptions of course, the loyal fanbase that are between a vert or a coupe Camaro... the Mustang should never enter their mind. Will it eat into the Mustangs vert sales? probably.. will it effect the Camaro coupe sales? there is no doubt in my mind, the coupe may suffer more so than the vert Mustang. The 1SS/2SS may take a beating too.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong... Just can't see any strategic advantage by holding out on the Z28 and banking on the convertible to maintain a 7k unit gap. Even if Camaro vert sales volumes were 30% on top of the 80k this year (which is saying that coupe sales maintained and the vert did not eat into the coupe) then that would be comfortable... convertibles usually make up around 30% of sales volume but only see increases in total product sales around 5-10% which typically means that, 20-25% of coupe sales are being effected just by the availability of a convertible.... It could be more.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5th Gen Suspension -- The Book JusticePete Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 151 05-07-2015 06:52 PM
Camaro Product Manager - interview Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 11 04-04-2012 07:10 PM
One year ago today....(long read) dtm4192 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 23 07-18-2010 10:34 AM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 08:33 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.