Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Cold Air Inductions
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics


View Poll Results: Your guess for the Z28 LSA HP rating
Less than 556 HP 95 13.63%
556 HP 159 22.81%
More than 556 HP 386 55.38%
We don't even know if the LSA is going to be in the Z28! Stupid question! 57 8.18%
Voters: 697. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2011, 08:48 PM   #113
TaylorRyanSS
COTW: 12/13/10
 
TaylorRyanSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr02Z/28 View Post
I will guess the 2012 Z/28 will be 500-525hp(just a thought)..And if the 2012 Z/28 is going to be over 575hp I am going to cringe at what GM/Chevy will be asking price wise for this ride..I am going out on a limb and say it will be priced around the 2011 CTS-V.. I can bet GM knows that the 2012 Z/28 will be in demand, so I'm sure prices will reflect it..I just hate to see a Camaro going to be priced out of range of most folks,boo-hoo...
1. The Z/28s benchmark is the GT500, so it is going to need more than 550 hp to get the same numbers the GT500 does due to the Camaros weight disadvantage.

2. There is no way that the Z/28 will be priced the same as a CTS-V. You are not just paying for the engine in a V, you are also paying for a luxury car with luxury amenities.

I say the Camaro will have around 575 hp and will have a starting price of $52,995.
__________________

"Are you one of those boys who prefer cars to women? - I'm one of those boys that appreciates a fine body, regardless of the make."
1969 CAMARO JOURNAL: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341239 | FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/taylor.ryan.apt | GRAPHIC DESIGN: www.aptdesigns.net
TaylorRyanSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 10:02 PM   #114
hairtrigger
 
Drives: 69 Chevelle SS396 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-screamer View Post
Picture of the motor in the test car looks closer to the LS-9 intercooler than the LSA despite its label.

It is an LSA in the test car with a redesigned intercooler lid to fit under the Camaro's cowl. Note the angle of the throttle body in relation to the LS9.
hairtrigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 11:14 PM   #115
hairtrigger
 
Drives: 69 Chevelle SS396 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West
Posts: 701
There is a ton of good stuff to search in here...This what it took "Uncle Robin" Lawrence to run 10's

• GMPP CTS-V LSA Crate engine
• Kooks headers and full exhaust system
• Lunati cam
• GMPP CNC cylinder heads
• Performance Transmissions 4L80E transmission
• ProTorque converter with 4000 RPM stall
• Lingenfelter pulley system, 63-pound injectors, fuel pump, blower coupler, and intercooler
• ATI balancer with 10% overdrive
• Bosch intercooler pump
• 100% stock rearend
• One piece Jerry Bickel-built driveshaft
• Stock starter
• Abaco Mass air meter
• Mickey Thompson 305/45/18 ET Drag Radial tires
• VP 100 unleaded fuel
• Tuned with HP Tuners tuning software
hairtrigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 01:08 AM   #116
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I think most muscle car guys preffer a broad torque range over high spooling turbos. Its all in the launch, if it doesnt snap your neck off the line and make all kinds of evil noises doing so then i dont want to buy it. And evil noises dont consist of wind-tunnel testing LOL. I dont really care about the top-end of my car because 99.9% of the time its not gonna be on a track, its gonna be launching from a stop light, and by the time i hit 80mph i'll be at another stop light, so i want to be able to smash that GT from light to light, not match it.
Besides isnt there already a TT Taurus? Does it use the same transmission? That might be why it was designed like that, just for the Taurus with no intention of using TT in a Mustang.
Both Twin Turbos and Superchargers create more peak HP/TQ than anything, traditionally, S/Cs peak much lower than Turbos. From idle to 4500rpm S/Cs have a nice HP curve, Turbos pick up at 3500 all the way to the engines ceiling. When MPGs are concerned, as long as you operate a Turbo under the spool, its almost like driving a regular V8 (what some people call turbo lag) and fuel mileage will reflect that kind of driving. S/Cs are constantly pulling, even at idle.. This is also why S/Cs become heat soaked quickly and lose power after extended use. For drag racing, a cool down is required between races to maximize power.

In 3-4 years, I'm not sure either of these cars will be labeled "Muscle Cars" or "Pony Cars". The term "Sports Coupe" is known the world over and if either of these companies intend on selling a performance vehicle in other parts of the world.. They will ditch that stereotype..

The SHO Taurus Twin Turbo 3.5l V6 has nothing in common with the 5.0 V8. Seeing a Twin Turbo on a V6 tells me that a TT version of a I4 and V8 are coming soon. With the 20% better MPG and 15% lower emissions a Single/Twin Turbo produces with Direct Injection makes it an automatic winner... add in the lower weight, better weight distribution at the same cost....

Besides, who wants a 20th Anniversary SVT Cobra that whines when you can give it Turbos and make it hiss?
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 04:22 PM   #117
WhiteKnight10
 
Drives: 2010 Chevrolet Malibu
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 3
I can see around 590hp in the z28... Can't have as much or more than the ZR1 but its gotta have more than the CTS-V
WhiteKnight10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 09:38 PM   #118
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE...Drove: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 28,199
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRyanSS View Post
2. There is no way that the Z/28 will be priced the same as a CTS-V. You are not just paying for the engine in a V, you are also paying for a luxury car with luxury amenities.

I say the Camaro will have around 575 hp and will have a starting price of $52,995.
Except I see the hp higher, and the price lower.....At 53k you're well-withing optioned-Corvette territory...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Both Twin Turbos and Superchargers create more peak HP/TQ than anything, traditionally, S/Cs peak much lower than Turbos. From idle to 4500rpm S/Cs have a nice HP curve, Turbos pick up at 3500 all the way to the engines ceiling. When MPGs are concerned, as long as you operate a Turbo under the spool, its almost like driving a regular V8 (what some people call turbo lag) and fuel mileage will reflect that kind of driving. S/Cs are constantly pulling, even at idle..
That's not quite accurate anymore, especially not with the twin-screw/hybrid roots superchargers companies are selling. Most come with a bypass valve nearly 'detaching' the unit from the engine. You'd use up more hp by turning on your lights at idle. I know at least Magnuson (who uses the same TVS rotors as GM) claims their units pull less than 1/3 hp from idle to part-throttle 2000 rpms.

And they keep boosting to redline, just like turbos. But Turbochargers, just by their nature will almost always produce more torque pound for pound of pressure compared to superchargers.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Twice Before You Post.
...Anxiously waiting to order a silver "Z"...

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 09:58 PM   #119
TaylorRyanSS
COTW: 12/13/10
 
TaylorRyanSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Except I see the hp higher, and the price lower.....At 53k you're well-withing optioned-Corvette territory...
I do not see it being any lower than 50K. The GT500 starts just under 49K. And I do not see them putting over 600 hp, but I guess we shall see soon
__________________

"Are you one of those boys who prefer cars to women? - I'm one of those boys that appreciates a fine body, regardless of the make."
1969 CAMARO JOURNAL: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341239 | FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/taylor.ryan.apt | GRAPHIC DESIGN: www.aptdesigns.net
TaylorRyanSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 10:08 AM   #120
tweeter81
 
tweeter81's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 Cadillac CTS-V
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight10 View Post
I can see around 590hp in the z28... Can't have as much or more than the ZR1 but its gotta have more than the CTS-V
Why...that doesn't make any sense at all...You seriously think GM is going to sell a Camaro for around $50K that has 590 HP, compared to a CTS-V for around $63K that only has 556 HP...come on, man.

Another thing, the fricking CTS-V Coupe already beats the GT500 in straightline acceleration tests and has faster lap times around certain tracks (see Road & Track this month). If the Caddy can do that with 4238 lbs, then the Camaro Z/28 (with great tires, improved suspension, etc.) ought to be able to do that with its relatively svelt sub 4000 lbs.

P.S. I know it's not only about HP, but even though the CTS-V commands a higher price tag because of its luxury amenities (and VASTLY superior interior), people will not really be happy to pay $13K more for a slower car. Cadillac is GM's halo brand, and there needs to be a multitude of reasons to entice people to spend tens of thousands of dollars more for a Cadillac, over a similar Chevrolet (having the Caddy be the clear loser in the performance dept. is most definitely not the way to do that).
__________________

2004 CTS-V
Mods: CAI, Spoiler, SW Heat Extractor Hood, PC'ed CCW SP600 wheels (19"x9" and 19"x10"), Toyo R888 (F: 235/35ZR19 - R: 295/30ZR19), Magnaflow Cat-back, UUC Shifter w/ bushings, Ground Control Coilover Kit (750f/800r), FG2 shocks, Hotchkis Swaybars, Custom FRCs, Kooks 1 3/4" Coated LT Headers, ARP Header Studs, NGK TR55ix, SS Brake Lines, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Hawk HP+ Pads, GForce Axles, Monster Stage 2 w/ 18 lb Flywheel, D.P.S.E. Dyno Tune = 351 hp/ 365 ft-lbs (corrected)
tweeter81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 11:37 AM   #121
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Except I see the hp higher, and the price lower.....At 53k you're well-withing optioned-Corvette territory...


That's not quite accurate anymore, especially not with the twin-screw/hybrid roots superchargers companies are selling. Most come with a bypass valve nearly 'detaching' the unit from the engine. You'd use up more hp by turning on your lights at idle. I know at least Magnuson (who uses the same TVS rotors as GM) claims their units pull less than 1/3 hp from idle to part-throttle 2000 rpms.

And they keep boosting to redline, just like turbos. But Turbochargers, just by their nature will almost always produce more torque pound for pound of pressure compared to superchargers.
I also see superchargers with advanced cooling configurations to combat heat soak for road duty, or at least making an effort to do so. Dual brick intercoolers and a heat extracting hood really help, especially at moderate to high speeds.

I guess the best way to duplicate the Turbo's emissions and MPG is to engineer an S/C to do exactly what you explained above. Just as long as it doesn't affect the beautiful HP/TQ low end curve, that is something a Turbo cannot duplicate from the S/C.

They could take a page from the diesel's book and Twin Charge an engine (Super and Twin Turbo) but say good bye to your fuel mileage. Performance wise, it is very effective... but without diesel, gasoline won't see any advantages other than high output and a nearly flat curve.

Maybe bypass the Supercharger at a higher RPM when the Turbos are in full spool. Using the Supercharger to spool the Turbos, eliminating any lag the Turbos have and relieving the S/C at higher RPM for cooling... but who would attempt to engineer that monster... With 8:1 compression pistons, an extra 200+ lbs, two separate heat exchangers and a whine and hiss... might not be worth it but it would be neat to see on a gas engine.

either way, good info on the S/C bypass... something I can look into tonight.
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 12:27 PM   #122
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeter81 View Post
Why...that doesn't make any sense at all...You seriously think GM is going to sell a Camaro for around $50K that has 590 HP, compared to a CTS-V for around $63K that only has 556 HP...come on, man.

Another thing, the fricking CTS-V Coupe already beats the GT500 in straightline acceleration tests and has faster lap times around certain tracks (see Road & Track this month). If the Caddy can do that with 4238 lbs, then the Camaro Z/28 (with great tires, improved suspension, etc.) ought to be able to do that with its relatively svelt sub 4000 lbs.

P.S. I know it's not only about HP, but even though the CTS-V commands a higher price tag because of its luxury amenities (and VASTLY superior interior), people will not really be happy to pay $13K more for a slower car. Cadillac is GM's halo brand, and there needs to be a multitude of reasons to entice people to spend tens of thousands of dollars more for a Cadillac, over a similar Chevrolet (having the Caddy be the clear loser in the performance dept. is most definitely not the way to do that).
I think they will. CTS-V is catered to the more affluent crowd who'd like as much luxury with their performance car as much as they want the actual performance. I completely believe they are for two different markets and feel there is a distinguishable difference. Personally, I'd walk right be CTS-V for Z28 if I had the money, because that's just how I am. I don't really think GM is going to shoot to steal many sales from competitors - I'm thinking Z28 will be for the CAMARO-guys and gals out there. Of course - I want them to sell as many CAMAROs as they can, so I won't be disappointed if they shoot for as many people as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
I also see superchargers with advanced cooling configurations to combat heat soak for road duty, or at least making an effort to do so. Dual brick intercoolers and a heat extracting hood really help, especially at moderate to high speeds.

I guess the best way to duplicate the Turbo's emissions and MPG is to engineer an S/C to do exactly what you explained above. Just as long as it doesn't affect the beautiful HP/TQ low end curve, that is something a Turbo cannot duplicate from the S/C.

They could take a page from the diesel's book and Twin Charge an engine (Super and Twin Turbo) but say good bye to your fuel mileage. Performance wise, it is very effective... but without diesel, gasoline won't see any advantages other than high output and a nearly flat curve.

Maybe bypass the Supercharger at a higher RPM when the Turbos are in full spool. Using the Supercharger to spool the Turbos, eliminating any lag the Turbos have and relieving the S/C at higher RPM for cooling... but who would attempt to engineer that monster... With 8:1 compression pistons, an extra 200+ lbs, two separate heat exchangers and a whine and hiss... might not be worth it but it would be neat to see on a gas engine.

either way, good info on the S/C bypass... something I can look into tonight.

I believe KB integrates their by-pass valve into a sort of "valet"-type mode, so you can manually control the boost so the undesirables who might have access to the car won't have full access to the power. I don't know about the Whipple and I don't know if Maggies feature a manual-type feature either.
__________________
05 Hummer H2 SUV on OEM Air Ride
Forged 11.4:1 408 LQ4 (K1 crank & rods; Mahle pistons)/CPP LS3 CNC heads/BTR Stage IV LS3 cam/home ported L92 intake manifold/ported 90mm TB/custom Volant CAI/mid-length headers/AFE dual 3" CB/Corvette Servo/el cheapo lift/Cognito UCAs/Sphon poly adjustable TA/Sphon adjustable rear LCAs/e'fan conversion/DirtyMax radiator/Moroso catchcan/HPTuners/HID conversion/LED exterior lighting/LED interior accents/Autometer Cobalts/AEM WBPioneer AVH-5600BHS/Pioneer GM-9601/2-Pioneer TS-W310D4s/Obcon Labyrinth dual-12 box/lots of other little stuff
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 04:46 PM   #123
tweeter81
 
tweeter81's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 Cadillac CTS-V
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I think they will. CTS-V is catered to the more affluent crowd who'd like as much luxury with their performance car as much as they want the actual performance. I completely believe they are for two different markets and feel there is a distinguishable difference.
I have to respectfully disagree. I own a 1st Gen CTS-V, and have been involved with and around the V community for the last 6 years (since my car was new in 2004), and the truth of the matter is that a large portion of 2nd Gen CTS-V owners are guys who have simply stepped up from the 1st Gen. Every V owner that I know, or have had dealings with, values performance above all else while having a car that is infinitely more usable than a pure 2 seater, like a Corvette.

If the fellas only wanted luxury with a little performance sprinkled in, they would simply by a CTS (same amount of luxury, less performance than the V-series). Nope, they want the top of the line, American, ultra-high performance luxury sedan. The fastest American sedan, and the second fastest production sedan in the world (second only to the Porsche Panamera, I believe).

I think GM won't let the Z/28 dominate the V, because if it did, then nobody would ever want to buy the CTS-V Coupe, which would only be differentiated from the Z/28 by different sheet metal, a nicer interior, and inferior performance numbers (I know there will obviously be a host of other differences, but to just break it down to the basics that a lay person would see).

There aren't very many enthusiasts out there who would be willing to pay the extra $13K for more luxury only, with no other differentiating factors over other GM products.

P.S. If you aren't sure about how serious GM and Cadillac are about top shelf performance for it's V-series cars, check out www.world-challenge.com and take a gander at the new CTS-V Coupe Racecar. It is beautiful, and will be a class dominator. I don't see GM and Chevrolet officially factory sponsoring and/or campaigning Camaros.

Lastly, I again have to ask the question, What do you think would be GM's motivation to add 40+ HP to the LSA's power rating...because a bunch of bench racers "think" that the new Z/28 is going to "need" that extra power to safely whoop the piss out of the GT500? There are videos and magazine articles out there that have already immortalized the fact that the current CTS-V Coupe can beat the GT500 in a variety of situations. A Camaro Z/28 that has very similar specs to the V (meaning exact same HP rating, among other things), but weighs 200-250 lbs less, will absolutely beat the GT500 in every situation -- and that isn't opinion, that is physics, pure and simple.
__________________

2004 CTS-V
Mods: CAI, Spoiler, SW Heat Extractor Hood, PC'ed CCW SP600 wheels (19"x9" and 19"x10"), Toyo R888 (F: 235/35ZR19 - R: 295/30ZR19), Magnaflow Cat-back, UUC Shifter w/ bushings, Ground Control Coilover Kit (750f/800r), FG2 shocks, Hotchkis Swaybars, Custom FRCs, Kooks 1 3/4" Coated LT Headers, ARP Header Studs, NGK TR55ix, SS Brake Lines, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Hawk HP+ Pads, GForce Axles, Monster Stage 2 w/ 18 lb Flywheel, D.P.S.E. Dyno Tune = 351 hp/ 365 ft-lbs (corrected)
tweeter81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #124
TaylorRyanSS
COTW: 12/13/10
 
TaylorRyanSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,881
If the z28 is a better performer than the V (which I think it will be), I do not think that will take sales away from cadillac. One is a sports car and one is a luxury car... regardless of the power.
__________________

"Are you one of those boys who prefer cars to women? - I'm one of those boys that appreciates a fine body, regardless of the make."
1969 CAMARO JOURNAL: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341239 | FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/taylor.ryan.apt | GRAPHIC DESIGN: www.aptdesigns.net
TaylorRyanSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 05:07 PM   #125
tweeter81
 
tweeter81's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 Cadillac CTS-V
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRyanSS View Post
If the z28 is a better performer than the V (which I think it will be), I do not think that will take sales away from cadillac. One is a sports car and one is a luxury car... regardless of the power.
I agree with you for the most part. And I even believe that for sure the Z/28 will outperform the V in every measurable performance test, but what I am saying is a lot of people only see HP numbers and other marketing stuff when deciding which car to buy.

If you are someone who can afford a $50K Camaro (which will be a toy for most), then you can also probably afford a V, and you could very well cross-shop the two models. If you look at the spec sheet and see 590 HP/ $50K, and then look at the other spec sheet and see 556 HP/ $63K, I can pretty much tell you what choice most people are going to make (this would be a bad business decision for GM, as they would have a ton of CTS-Vs gathering dust on car lots across the U.S.). That is why I believe the HP ratings will be almost the same between the two models (+/- 10 HP), but the Z/28 will slightly edge out the V on all the performance metrics.
__________________

2004 CTS-V
Mods: CAI, Spoiler, SW Heat Extractor Hood, PC'ed CCW SP600 wheels (19"x9" and 19"x10"), Toyo R888 (F: 235/35ZR19 - R: 295/30ZR19), Magnaflow Cat-back, UUC Shifter w/ bushings, Ground Control Coilover Kit (750f/800r), FG2 shocks, Hotchkis Swaybars, Custom FRCs, Kooks 1 3/4" Coated LT Headers, ARP Header Studs, NGK TR55ix, SS Brake Lines, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Hawk HP+ Pads, GForce Axles, Monster Stage 2 w/ 18 lb Flywheel, D.P.S.E. Dyno Tune = 351 hp/ 365 ft-lbs (corrected)
tweeter81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 05:34 PM   #126
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 23,614
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeter81 View Post
Lastly, I again have to ask the question, What do you think would be GM's motivation to add 40+ HP to the LSA's power rating...because a bunch of bench racers "think" that the new Z/28 is going to "need" that extra power to safely whoop the piss out of the GT500? There are videos and magazine articles out there that have already immortalized the fact that the current CTS-V Coupe can beat the GT500 in a variety of situations. A Camaro Z/28 that has very similar specs to the V (meaning exact same HP rating, among other things), but weighs 200-250 lbs less, will absolutely beat the GT500 in every situation -- and that isn't opinion, that is physics, pure and simple.
If GM only wanted to beat the Mustang when the 2010 Camaro came out, the base engine would probably have been the non-DI 3.6L and the SS would have gotten the L76. They'd beat their respective Mustangs, by a little, and everyone would probably be happy ... until the 2011 Mustangs came out that is. Trying to simply be competitive with the current cars led to complacency and mediocrity. No, mood is different now. Benchmark where your competition is right now, and expect that they'll step it up in a couple years. Then aim to compete with the updated models. Worst case scenario, you'll be a little behind (after having a big lead for a year or two). Or better yet, you'll catch the other guy with his pants down and be way ahead in the game.

And to think that Ford isn't going to work on the GT500 would be foolish. In 2009 it had 500 hp. In 2010 it was upped to 540. For 2011 it was bumped another 10 hp, but the car also lost a lot of weight by switching from an iron block to aluminum. And all that was without having a real competitor on the market. I can't imagine that they'll stop there once the Z28 hits the streets.

In the end, it becomes a question of whats more important to GM: making sure the 2013 GT500 won't embarrass them, or worrying about the impact the Z28 has on CTS-V (or Corvette) sales?
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shno's House of Z Number 3 Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics 16914 Today 09:41 AM
2012 Z28 with 2nd gen-style stripes on side [request] codo Camaro Photoshops / Renderings Forum 0 10-17-2010 01:39 PM
5th gen vs 4th gen JCO2185 Chevy Camaro vs... 158 07-26-2010 08:16 AM
Z28 - Please try and understand..... GTAHVIT Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 73 07-24-2008 12:30 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.