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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 02-28-2011, 01:16 PM   #26
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Everyone knows the whole "save the best for last" saying.
There's a reason for it.

My prediction is that the Zed WILL return, simply cause it's always been the most coveted of the Camaro lineup. I however think that it won't be as unique as the ZL1, but rather relieve the ZL1's ride components, with a tuned LS3. It was always said after all that the LS3 has potential beyond the 426 horses that the SS currently produces. I think that doing a mash of the two models would be effective, financially, and do the job that would bring the Z28 back to it's right name.

Oh, and they should also built it as a manual tranny only!
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:58 PM   #27
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With the BOSS (3600 lbs., 444 hp, 8.1 lb/hp) arguably called "the Best all-round Mustang ever" by magazine testers, it will take a Camaro of great(er) substance to equal/better its foe. 1SSs curb at 3850 lbs. and a few tricks may get that down by 50-100, after adding heavier upgraded suspension pieces. Which, to = BOSS, requires well over 460 hp. And the only non-boosted engine on the RPO shelf ready-to-go would be the LS7 (converted to wet-sump) which, @ 505 hp and a curb of 3750 (?) = 7.43...very close to the ZL1 but MUCH lighter (especially up-front) and therefore MUCH more nimble...

If the Mustang is BOSS, then meet the CAMARO C.E.O.!!
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:22 PM   #28
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I think it's incredibly ironic that the Z28 speculation continues with the announcement of the ZL1...only because many (including myself), thought it would end with the revealing of the King of Camaros....

Anyways, it should be very interesting to see how it turns out. Especially given the boss-prostrating that's going on...I won't get nasty - Ford did a good job - suffice it to say that there are no magic bullets, and sometimes it's necessary to read beyond the hype....
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:29 PM   #29
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Postulating about a Z/28 akin the BOSS is based on the "suggestion" from the Camaro Team...

Just as the BOSS will make a much more enjoyable "track car" than the GT500, I suspect the Camaro folks are aware of the merits of something with 200+ fewer pounds over the front wheels and, perhaps, even "racier" feel/appeal. At least those with some "twisty" experience and intent would be readily aware and willing.

The precedent in-house would be a ZR1 vs. a Z06/Z07 vs. LS3/GS. Arguably, the "track star" Vette is the Z06/Z07, and that is where a Z/28 should be...
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:35 PM   #30
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Postulating about a Z/28 akin the BOSS is based on the "suggestion" from the Camaro Team...

Just as the BOSS will make a much more enjoyable "track car" than the GT500, I suspect the Camaro folks are aware of the merits of something with 200+ fewer pounds over the front wheels and, perhaps, even "racier" feel/appeal. At least those with some "twisty" experience and intent would be readily aware and willing.

The precedent in-house would be a ZR1 vs. a Z06/Z07 vs. LS3/GS. Arguably, the "track star" Vette is the Z06/Z07, and that is where a Z/28 should be...
Correct, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you on most of those points. Only one I would contend is that the ZR1 will outrun the Z06 in most scenarios. The benefit is the loose and nimble feeling the Z06 (or any track-designed production car) inherently has.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:15 PM   #31
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IMVHO makeing the Z/28 nothing more than a "Track Pack" would be a crime and somebody would need to be shot.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:26 PM   #32
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Is it possible that GM are waiting to get their hands on a Boss to delevope a track competitor, as we saw in the spy shots of the ZL-1?
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:48 PM   #33
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The problem I have with this information is that the car is scheduled to be released next April. The new ZL1 starts production Jan. 2012 and gets to dealers in March 2012. I don't think the Z28 will come into showrooms a month later.

I think they are guessing GM will announce it in April 2012, and bring it to production a year later.

If you read the C&D article, they live a lot of wiggle room for variables, but I see a lot of truth to their reporting.

The ZL1 WAS the Z28, GM changed their minds.

The most interesting conjecture is that the Z28 may have the LS7. That's a torquey a meat a ball!

And how about the GEN V tidbits. I found Direct Injection info a year ago, related to future GM inventory. CD is right on the money there.

GEN V debut will probably be limited to C7 at first - I also saw a ramp-up in GEN V volume after late 2012 launch.

But when the GEN V's hit Camaro, it's a whole new ball game.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:30 AM   #34
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And how about the GEN V tidbits. I found Direct Injection info a year ago, related to future GM inventory. CD is right on the money there.

GEN V debut will probably be limited to C7 at first - I also saw a ramp-up in GEN V volume after late 2012 launch.

But when the GEN V's hit Camaro, it's a whole new ball game.

I also wonder if the Z28 will debut on the smaller, lighter Alpha platform, and not the current one.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:55 AM   #35
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The most interesting conjecture is that the Z28 may have the LS7. And how about the GEN V tidbits. I found Direct Injection info a year ago, related to future GM inventory. CD is right on the money there.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #36
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Thats awesome!!!

I hope it looks better than ZL1.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:57 AM   #37
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A high compression, 5.5L, direct injection engine fits in nicely with the Z/28 moniker. I highly doubt that it will be out in March, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it out say....October, 2012.

Cut the MR out of the ZL1, keep the weight down, maybe eliminate the back seat..... Have it come with very few options available (like the original Z06), something like factory coil-over suspension, a good downforce package.......... There has to be a way to get the weight back down to 3500lbs.

Get 450hp/tq out of the 5.5L and get the weight down to 3500-3650lbs and presto, the Z is back.

Their is something to say about a track monster wearing the Z/28 badge. With 450hp and a weight of 3650, the H.P : Weight ratio = 8.1. Sounds familiar doesn't it???
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:38 PM   #38
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3500lbs for this platform is not going to happen. Doesn't sound like 5.5l is either, expect 5.3 and 6.2l for the new engines.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Is it possible that GM are waiting to get their hands on a Boss to delevope a track competitor, as we saw in the spy shots of the ZL-1?
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3500lbs for this platform is not going to happen. Doesn't sound like 5.5l is either, expect 5.3 and 6.2l for the new engines.
Little is known about the Gen V smallblocks...we know they'll have direct injection, VVT, and AFM...but we don't know the displacement.

It's also pretty interested that they said in a press release it'll have a "new combustion process"...I'm looking forward to reading more about these things.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:49 PM   #40
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I also wonder if the Z28 will debut on the smaller, lighter Alpha platform, and not the current one.
I do not believe that the ZL1 will be more than a 2 to 3 year model, depending on when the current Camaro switches to the new Alpha chassis. When it does switch to the new chassis, I think that Z28 will take its place. I personally do not want to wait any more than a year for the ZL1 and definitely NOT 2 to 3 years for the Z28. I also do not see Chevy bringing the Z28 on the current chassis, unfortunately I have never been right on any of my guesses or predictions on what Chevy was going to do.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:55 PM   #41
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I do not believe that the ZL1 will be more than a 2 to 3 year model, depending on when the current Camaro switches to the new Alpha chassis. When it does switch to the new chassis, I think that Z28 will take its place. I personally do not want to wait any more than a year for the ZL1 and definitely NOT 2 to 3 years for the Z28. I also do not see Chevy bringing the Z28 on the current chassis, unfortunately I have never been right on any of my guesses or predictions on what Chevy was going to do.
Why don't you suppose the ZL1 will carry over into the 6thgen as the "Top Dog", too?

(I think there's room for both nameplates, btw...)
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:15 PM   #42
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3500lbs for this platform is not going to happen. Doesn't sound like 5.5l is either, expect 5.3 and 6.2l for the new engines.
I can't see it being that hard to drop 350-400 pounds off this platform. Go back to 18" rims, put in a lighter/smaller displacement engine, lighter suspension components, remove the back seat, etc.....

The Z06's LS7 weighs in @ 458 pounds, the LS3 is 415 pounds. Both of these engines are dated and the 5.5L is already in use in the Corvette GT2 race car. That is a pretty good indication that it will be hitting the streets in the Corvette. I can't see it being over 350 pounds. That is 1/5 the weight the car needs to loose, and a good chunk off the front end.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:32 PM   #43
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I can't see it being that hard to drop 350-400 pounds off this platform. Go back to 18" rims, put in a lighter/smaller displacement engine, lighter suspension components, remove the back seat, etc.....

The Z06's LS7 weighs in @ 458 pounds, the LS3 is 415 pounds. Both of these engines are dated and the 5.5L is already in use in the Corvette GT2 race car. That is a pretty good indication that it will be hitting the streets in the Corvette. I can't see it being over 350 pounds. That is 1/5 the weight the car needs to loose, and a good chunk off the front end.
Sorry, but 350 to 400 pounds is wayyyyyyy too much. All of the things you listed, including making it a 2 passnger car (cough Corvette, cough, cough) would save maybe 150 pounds.

To get where you would like to go involves light weight and exotic materials. I know this from my work on the Z06 where we got an aluminum structure, carbon fiber fender outers, carbon fiber floor panels, carbon fiber fendes and we saved all of .................drum roll please.................165 pounds. And almost all of my guys work was off set by larger wheels and tires, LS7 with remote oil reservoir and Big Ginormous Brakes.

It's just not feasible to get that much weight out without adding a big, humungous pile of cash. And you know what that translates into on the sticker of a low volume car (no rear seats means ultra low volume as you are really now talking a Corvette) don't you????
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:23 AM   #44
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Why don't you suppose the ZL1 will carry over into the 6thgen as the "Top Dog", too?

(I think there's room for both nameplates, btw...)
I guess I should have re-phrased it. I do not think that the ZL1 will continue on to the Alpha chassis with a S/C 6.2 engine. Everything seems to point to a downsizing of engines to meet efficiency and CAFE requirements. If they do continue the ZL1 nameplate it will be with a smaller DI engine that hopefully makes the same power. The current ZL1 will be the last of the "Big Blocks" for quite some time.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:07 AM   #45
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I guess I should have re-phrased it. I do not think that the ZL1 will continue on to the Alpha chassis with a S/C 6.2 engine. Everything seems to point to a downsizing of engines to meet efficiency and CAFE requirements. If they do continue the ZL1 nameplate it will be with a smaller DI engine that hopefully makes the same power. The current ZL1 will be the last of the "Big Blocks" for quite some time.
I agree this is going to be what happen with the next generation; but why not? If we can get better efficiency from a smaller package while giving the same power - why not? This is exactly why I can't watch the 5th Generation go by without getting one - because I fear this will be the last of the larger V8 engines we'll see. This car has the best balance of character, charisma, performance, and ergonimics of any car I've laid eyes on. I can't imagine a car I'd like as much as this one.

I seriously hope for Z28 to return in a year or two. It'd be nice to see a '13 C7 and have Z28 reintroduced sharing the same Gen V engine; maybe downrated a bit. It's going to need some serious power, but I think it'll do great so long as the chassis is sorted.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:39 AM   #46
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Sorry, but 350 to 400 pounds is wayyyyyyy too much. All of the things you listed, including making it a 2 passnger car (cough Corvette, cough, cough) would save maybe 150 pounds.

To get where you would like to go involves light weight and exotic materials. I know this from my work on the Z06 where we got an aluminum structure, carbon fiber fender outers, carbon fiber floor panels, carbon fiber fendes and we saved all of .................drum roll please.................165 pounds. And almost all of my guys work was off set by larger wheels and tires, LS7 with remote oil reservoir and Big Ginormous Brakes.

It's just not feasible to get that much weight out without adding a big, humungous pile of cash. And you know what that translates into on the sticker of a low volume car (no rear seats means ultra low volume as you are really now talking a Corvette) don't you????


A number of years ago, as part of a magazine project I prepared, a C5 Z06 was treated to c/f front end/hood/rear fenders/wing/splitter along with Corbeau 1-piece buckets and an LPE rear battery kit, as well as long tube headers and full 3" exhaust. Then, a roll cage/18 X 12 fr./18 X 13 rr. 3-piece wheels with corresponding tires and 6-piston/4-piston calipers were added.

Net effect? SAME curb weight, but w/50-50 distribution...

BTW, an LS7, wet-sumped, will weigh within a pound or three of an LS3... 80 hp, zero weight...it's the HD driveline bits 'n pieces required that will add...
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:58 AM   #47
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Sorry, but 350 to 400 pounds is wayyyyyyy too much. All of the things you listed, including making it a 2 passnger car (cough Corvette, cough, cough) would save maybe 150 pounds.

To get where you would like to go involves light weight and exotic materials. I know this from my work on the Z06 where we got an aluminum structure, carbon fiber fender outers, carbon fiber floor panels, carbon fiber fendes and we saved all of .................drum roll please.................165 pounds. And almost all of my guys work was off set by larger wheels and tires, LS7 with remote oil reservoir and Big Ginormous Brakes.

It's just not feasible to get that much weight out without adding a big, humungous pile of cash. And you know what that translates into on the sticker of a low volume car (no rear seats means ultra low volume as you are really now talking a Corvette) don't you????

150 pound diet works for me.

Corvette > Camaro in every aspect except passenger volume. Dropping the rear seat in a "track Pack" car shouldn't have any impact on the Corvette. Keeping the production numbers down would ensure that.

With the ZL1 having MR suspension, SC'd, larger tires, etc the weight is going the wrong direction. There has to be something that can be done on this platform that can reduce some weight. Going with the smaller 5.5L DI V8 will help, but it can't end there.

CF isn't always the way to go with weight savings in mind. I know the RK Sport OEM style CF hood had zero weight difference compared to the factory SS hood. The thin aluminum that is used on the body panels isn't that heavy.

Now if they could do something to cut the weight down in the doors.... It's all nice in theory, but I'm sure if it is ever made it will be bad azz anyway.
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:05 PM   #48
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So....because GM wasn't first this time around to produce a car with LOW demand and likely few here would buy....they're a follower and therefor inferior?

Wake up and smell the rubber people....while these cars are really cool, and we all drool over them -- the demand is almost non-existent and the return-on-investment is not worth it unless the only goal is bragging rights. (In a market where the Camaro is dominating the Mustang at every turn...bragging rights would be important for Ford, right now)

Remember...while Ford can throw some $$$ at this extremely-niche vehicle; GM financially supports both the Camaro AND the Corvette (one model of which is a better performer than 99% of production cars in the world). Put any Mustang up against even *just* a Grand Sport 'Vette and get back to me..........

Sorry for the little rant...but I wish people wouldn't be so quick to draw such wild conclusions out of thin-air, sometimes....

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing....just wait a little bit longer for the ZL1 to put down some numbers...I think MANY will be (or should be) blown away...
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:06 PM   #49
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I guess I should have re-phrased it. I do not think that the ZL1 will continue on to the Alpha chassis with a S/C 6.2 engine. Everything seems to point to a downsizing of engines to meet efficiency and CAFE requirements. If they do continue the ZL1 nameplate it will be with a smaller DI engine that hopefully makes the same power. The current ZL1 will be the last of the "Big Blocks" for quite some time.
The current ZL1 is not a big block, it is LS small block. You probably meant the end of the big cubic inch motors. and i agree with you,because of the stringent MPG they have too meet by 2013, GM is going to smaller cubic inch engines.

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Old 03-02-2011, 04:56 PM   #50
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150 pound diet works for me.

Corvette > Camaro in every aspect except passenger volume. Dropping the rear seat in a "track Pack" car shouldn't have any impact on the Corvette. Keeping the production numbers down would ensure that.

With the ZL1 having MR suspension, SC'd, larger tires, etc the weight is going the wrong direction. There has to be something that can be done on this platform that can reduce some weight. Going with the smaller 5.5L DI V8 will help, but it can't end there.CF isn't always the way to go with weight savings in mind. I know the RK Sport OEM style CF hood had zero weight difference compared to the factory SS hood. The thin aluminum that is used on the body panels isn't that heavy.

Now if they could do something to cut the weight down in the doors.... It's all nice in theory, but I'm sure if it is ever made it will be bad azz anyway.
Decreasing displacement will not reduce wieght at all, Its still a small block. The 5.5 ltr displacement V8 that the vette used in le-mans is the 6.2 block with the 4.8 Crank.
OHV are already the lightest V8 on the market, I honestly can't think of any lighter ones because most other companies use DOHC which are naturaly heavier. For example the BMW M3 4.0 V8 wieghs more than the LS3.
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