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Old 03-06-2011, 09:01 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS View Post
Like the Corvette ZR-1 you could fabricate the two Camaro sub-frames in something other than steel to get the weight down quite a bit. They did the ZR-1 frame in aluminum to save weight. Just a thought.
Yep.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS View Post
Like the Corvette ZR-1 you could fabricate the two Camaro sub-frames in something other than steel to get the weight down quite a bit. They did the ZR-1 frame in aluminum to save weight. Just a thought.
I bet you could get 20-40 lbs out of subframes using lighter materials...but they'd need to be totally redesigned and stress-tested, validated, etc to ensure performance-to-spec. Different materials have different torsional, and tensile characteristics.

An aluminum frame is a good thought...however, the Camaro is unibody, which the Corvette isn't...not really; they call it a 'spaceframe' design. And once they were done? They saved a grand total of ~150 lbs...Certain Camaro design features, such as the rear 'shoulders'...cannot be stamped in aluminum. It was hard enough to figure out how to stamp them in steel. It becomes prohibitively expensive to try and engineer/build a unibody as complex and strong as the Camaro's out of aluminum.

They'll have to tackle these questions on the next generation...the number one way to reduce weight without exorbitant expense would be to shrink it's size. Then worry about exotic materials...
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:54 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I bet you could get 20-40 lbs out of subframes using lighter materials...but they'd need to be totally redesigned and stress-tested, validated, etc to ensure performance-to-spec. Different materials have different torsional, and tensile characteristics.

An aluminum frame is a good thought...however, the Camaro is unibody, which the Corvette isn't...not really; they call it a 'spaceframe' design. And once they were done? They saved a grand total of ~150 lbs...Certain Camaro design features, such as the rear 'shoulders'...cannot be stamped in aluminum. It was hard enough to figure out how to stamp them in steel. It becomes prohibitively expensive to try and engineer/build a unibody as complex and strong as the Camaro's out of aluminum.

They'll have to tackle these questions on the next generation...the number one way to reduce weight without exorbitant expense would be to shrink it's size. Then worry about exotic materials...
That is the million(s) dollar question. When they resize the Camaro will it still be as popular. I think a key reason the Camaro out sells the Mustang is that it is bigger. If they shrink it it will get lighter and faster, but what will it do to sales???
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:14 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
That is the million(s) dollar question. When they resize the Camaro will it still be as popular. I think a key reason the Camaro out sells the Mustang is that it is bigger. If they shrink it it will get lighter and faster, but what will it do to sales???
I'm not sure that's a key reason it's outselling....while on the exterior it's noticeably bigger...there's not much gain in interior room. Honestly, I believe it's the style of the inside and out coupled to the value that's selling this car.

IMO....if they can build on the success of this design, massage it and scale it down. AND, of course, keep that value factor there -- it'll still continue to outsell the competition. When a car enters the market with as big of a splash as Camaro did, it makes a name for itself. In this case, it's a positive one. Now that consumers are aware it's a good buy -- they need to carefully and successfully improve on that reputation.

I'm willing to bet they can maintain interior size, optimize cargo space/access, and decrease overall dimensions (including wheels/tires!) on this next generation, thus reducing weight and amplifying every performance aspect of the car.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:23 PM   #61
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I'm not sure that's a key reason it's outselling....while on the exterior it's noticeably bigger...there's not much gain in interior room.
My wife loves the Camaro and hates the Mustang because the interior is sooo much bigger in her opinion. I am not going to argue with her on two counts.

1. She is my wife so she must be right.
2. Her impeccable good taste in cars
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
My wife loves the Camaro and hates the Mustang because the interior is sooo much bigger in her opinion. I am not going to argue with her on two counts.

1. She is my wife so she must be right.
2. Her impeccable good taste in cars
Fair enough -- I won't argue, then, either!!!
(I'll just post numbers...because I did the research and forgot to post it last time...)

Camaro(Mustang)

Front Headroom:..........37.4(38.5)
Rear Headroom:...........35.3(34.7)
Front shoulder room:.....56.9(55.3)
Rear shoulder room:......42.5(51.6)
Front Leg room:...........42.4(42.4)
Rear Leg room:............29.9(29.8)
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:14 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
That is the million(s) dollar question. When they resize the Camaro will it still be as popular. I think a key reason the Camaro out sells the Mustang is that it is bigger. If they shrink it it will get lighter and faster, but what will it do to sales???
The reason it sells so well is that it is both mean & nasty while at the same time it is sublimely beautiful.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:11 AM   #64
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could a new Z28 weigh less than 3,750 lbs.? if so how?
I think 3700 to 3750 with 480 hp would be the target to build a great Z28. That's about halfway between the SS and V6. Its only about...100-150 pounds that would need to be shaved for that target. SS curb weight is 3849lb.

Places that weight savings could come from...wheels - 20 lbs, carbon fiber body pieces such as bonnet (20 lbs) and bootlid - (20 lbs), rear seat delete option - (30 lbs.?), smaller and hopefully lighter 5.5 liter DI Gen V engine block (30 lbs?), apparently the mufflers on the current car are extremely heavy so some weight can be saved there (30 lbs). I think all those add up to about 150 lbs or more in weight savings. My estimates were pretty conservative where I was unsure what the difference would be. It might be even more like 3650 or so. And that's not half bad.
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:49 PM   #65
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I think 3700 to 3750 with 480 hp would be the target to build a great Z28. That's about halfway between the SS and V6. Its only about...100-150 pounds that would need to be shaved for that target. SS curb weight is 3849lb.

Places that weight savings could come from...wheels - 20 lbs, carbon fiber body pieces such as bonnet (20 lbs) and bootlid - (20 lbs), rear seat delete option - (30 lbs.?), smaller and hopefully lighter 5.5 liter DI Gen V engine block (30 lbs?), apparently the mufflers on the current car are extremely heavy so some weight can be saved there (30 lbs). I think all those add up to about 150 lbs or more in weight savings. My estimates were pretty conservative where I was unsure what the difference would be. It might be even more like 3650 or so. And that's not half bad.
Check out Doc's thread. It's all about weight loss.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:58 AM   #66
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Check out Doc's thread. It's all about weight loss.
That's a good thread
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