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Old 02-13-2009, 04:43 AM   #1
digidigi
 
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Supercharger or LS9 Swap?

Hello,
I`m Rick from Norway, I will move to FL this fall. I was also living there from 99-03 and I had a supercharged (Prohcarger) LS1 Corvette back then.

I first decided to get a C6 Z06, but after sean all the pictures and read about the new 2010 Camaro I just changed my mind, I just must have one of those ( a real muscle car). Will get 2SS/RS with other goodies except sunroof.

Just to bad its not offered with LS7,LSA or LS9, so Im consider modifications right away.
Here is my playing with cost of the swap (after some google for LS9 prices).

Solution 1.
LS9 engine: aprx 20.000 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Dry Oil Tank and Lines: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 1.500 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Misc costs aprx 1.000 USD
SUM 25.000 USD
Reduct LS3 Engine - 6.000 USD
Total ex Labor aprx 19.000 USD

Labor and Tuning (700+ hp) 40 Hours?
Custom hood?

I should be able to ship the stock LS3 engine with a LS3 to LS1 electronic package to Norway and sell it there as a complete Ls1 swap package.

Solution 2.
Im not sure how strong the stock LS3 engine is for supercharging, so I would have to rebuild my engine before adding supercharger so my guess would be:

Rebuild LS3 engine aprx 6.000 USD
Supercharger Kit (root style) aprx 7.000 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 1.500 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Misc costs aprx 1.000 USD

Total ex Labor aprx 17.000USD
Labor and Tuning (700+ hp) xx Hours?
Custom hood?


Solution 3.
Keep stock LS3 engine internals (5-6? PSI):

Supercharger Kit (root style) aprx 7.000 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust: aprx 750 USD
Misc costs aprx 500 USD

Total ex Labor aprx 9.250 USD
Labor and Tuning (600 hp) xx Hours?
Custom hood?

Solution 4.
Could be Head & Cam package with headers (550-600 HP)?

This is just playing with numbers, I will of course discuss this with some serious tuners before I make up my minds.
Think my numbers will add up?

I do not know from whom or where I will order my 2010 Camaro, I guess a good idea would be close to a good tuner.....

Regards,
Rick

Last edited by digidigi; 02-13-2009 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Added more "solutions", dang forgot custom hood
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:40 AM   #2
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If you can afford it ... Solution 1 or Solution 2 ..

I think that way you will get the most HP/TQ and keep it reliable ..

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Old 02-13-2009, 08:03 AM   #3
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When you build a car and you figure the budget add 25% for overage. trust me I built a 68 Camaro and thought I had it all figured out to the penny. NOT!!. The best way to go IMO is with the stock engine and supercharger. If its a street car that will be more than anyone can handle.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:23 AM   #4
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When you build a car and you figure the budget add 25% for overage. trust me I built a 68 Camaro and thought I had it all figured out to the penny. NOT!!.
Your right, I remember when I supercharged my 2000 Corvette, added new wider wheels, radiator, brakes, etc.

However, this time I do not plan to race my car much, I just want it to be a extreme fast everyday driven car
I think the stock brakes, suspension and cooling system will be safe and good enough for street use, but I guess we will know as soon as the first V8 are put to real road tests this spring.
Dont know how the tires wild hold up with 600+ HP, but again for street use I will try them first and add some slicks the few times I will go to the track.

I will at least try to get the same numbers my 2000 SC Manual Corvette did (490RWHP), had a few run 1/4 mile with drag-slicks @11.5. but this was a much lighter then 5. gen camaro will be.

/Rick
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #5
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You will easily pass the 490rwhp numbers. You should easily break those numbers with stock internals and a low boost pressure.

I will be using the STS twin turbo kit at about 6.5psi and I would expect close to 600 at the rear. The procharger would do abou tthe same, as I am also considering their product. You will be safe on the factory internals at those numbers, but over 600hp I would rebuild, and I know some places that will do your rebuild for only 4,000 or so.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:18 AM   #6
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IMVHO - I say 1 or 2 also.

A crate engine will have a warranty (unless it excludes the LS9) from GM and you know everything is about as good as it's going to get from the factory. It's precision built and hand assembled. They check it before it goes out the door so it's not likely you'd have a problem down the road. However, I remember reading that engine is at it's limit, at least per the engineers. I don't know if that means durability, emissions, or fuel efficiency (or a combination for that matter) but it's got a lot of good stuff in there.

Rebuilding the LS3 I think is a good alternative too. It's mostly the same block as the LS9, minus the oil squirters and bigger head bolt holes. The heads on the LS9 (and LSA - I think) are different as they are rotocast and heat treated to a different specification (I suspect) to minimize distortion under boost. You could just throw a Lunati reciprocating kit in there and be good.

But if you go to that extent, why not consider an LSX block, either GMPP heads or some aftermarket heads, and go with a forged set-up? You have room to grow with that block, and you won't have distortion issues as one would with the aluminum LS-engines, but it'll probably extend your budget more.

I think that that LS3 will live with some moderate boost though without much trouble for a long time. If you're just going to be playing around and not beating it up on the track then I think this would be a great way to go.

Since it looks like a Z06 was your original plan, I think you can easily spend the money in the difference between the cars and build an even better Camaro. With as much support there is from GMPP and the aftermarket you're going to be covered however you want to build it. Please do me a favor though - keep us posted on what you eventually plan and how things come out
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:56 PM   #7
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I think the LS3 with a set of forged and low compression pistons will probably be the best option. I don't think you will need the whole 6,000 to rebuild the motor (depending on head strength and the possibility of "lifting" the heads) but I dont know how much boost you will want to run.

With about 10 PSI, you should be OK with the stock heads and a set of pistons and maybe rods...
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:42 AM   #8
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i would probably start off by driving it in stock form for a couple days, maybe a week.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:46 AM   #9
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Again. Two of my friends, on completely stock LS3 C6s (well, one had longtubes, but the other didn't), made 550whp on just a bolt-on Paxton Novi1500 kit and an EFI Live tune at ECS. Installed, all told, I think it was about 10k.

10k for 550whp? Unless you're planning on tracking the car and want to keep the heat down for 30+ minute sessions, why the hell would you blow an extra 15k on a car that'll weigh, by the time you're done, 4000 lbs?

Get the blower, or just get a C6.
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:18 AM   #10
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go for this LSX 454

Both the Pontiac G8 GXP and the LSX454 crate engine from GM Performance Parts are new this fall. GM engineers figured there was no better way to highlight them than combining them in an intimidating street machine.

In factory form, the G8 GXP features a 6.2L (376-cu.-in.) V-8 rated at 415 horsepower (309 kW) and 415 lb.-ft. of torque (562 Nm), but the new LSX454 (part number 19166972) delivers 7.4 liters of unadulterated grunt. It cranks out 638 horsepower (476 kW) and 600 lb.-ft. of torque (813 Nm). The engine uses the LSX Bowtie cylinder block, new six-bolt LSX cylinder heads and an all-forged rotating assembly. Backing the LSX454 is the GXP’s Hydra-Matic 6L80 six-speed automatic transmission.
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:45 AM   #11
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my dealer has a callaway corvette sitting in the showroom, blown LS3 under the hood with 580hp and a warranty.

The owner of the dealership said Reeves Callaway visited the dealership, signed the motor of the callaway in the showroom and said they have a SS camaro in the shop which they are working on. Expect the same gains as the vette. Mr. Callaway said they are putting the fine touches to the hood.



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Old 02-14-2009, 01:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
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go for this LSX 454
if ur spending 20k on a motor, might as well go all out.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
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if ur spending 20k on a motor, might as well go all out.
A ls9 is 22,000 + ECM + wiring + new Custom hood

Solution 1.
LS9 engine: aprx 22.000 USD
ECM + wiring: aprx 950 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Dry Oil Tank and Lines: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 2,500 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Misc costs aprx 2.000 USD
SUM 30.000 USD
30,000 x 1.2 = 36,000
Reduct LS3 Engine - 6.000 USD
Total ex Labor aprx 30.000 USD

Labor and Tuning (700+ hp) 40 Hours?
Custom hood? 950-3500 for Carbon fiber + paint

now lsx 454

engine: 12,000 to 15,000 USD all 4340 forged Crankshaft + rods + forged pitons and Ls7 cylinder heads
ECM + wiring: aprx 950 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 2,500 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Misc costs aprx 2.000 USD
SUM 22.000 USD
pan from your LS3
intake ported from your ls3 or after market

Download the catalog....http://www.fuelairspark.com/WhatsNew...009f2009-1.pdf and look on page 21:
LSXR
102mm Intake Manifold LS7 Car #146202

+30hp/+25Tq over stock manifold..
so the 620 hp is now 650 hp for this engine.

P.S. there is no replacement for displacement 454ci v 376ci
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:13 PM   #14
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You'll have much more fun building your motor than installing the LS9. If that is your goal, do it the custom way.

If you want to keep it as much of a GM product as possible, using the LS9 will make that a reality, although building your own motor gives you the possibility of more power. That being said, the aftermarket is a great resource, sometimes with less reliability than factory products due to sub-par R&D.

If you want to be the fastest car ever, then you may want to consider a lighter car with an engine containing more cylinders by considering the idea of mating 2 GM large-displacement V8s together, upgrading the internals, using 1 turbo per cylinder, and adding so much boost that the power will make a you-shaped impression in the driver seat.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRS View Post
A ls9 is 22,000 + ECM + wiring + new Custom hood

Solution 1.
LS9 engine: aprx 22.000 USD
ECM + wiring: aprx 950 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Dry Oil Tank and Lines: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 2,500 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Misc costs aprx 2.000 USD
SUM 30.000 USD
30,000 x 1.2 = 36,000
Reduct LS3 Engine - 6.000 USD
Total ex Labor aprx 30.000 USD

Labor and Tuning (700+ hp) 40 Hours?
Custom hood? 950-3500 for Carbon fiber + paint

now lsx 454

engine: 12,000 to 15,000 USD all 4340 forged Crankshaft + rods + forged pitons and Ls7 cylinder heads
ECM + wiring: aprx 950 USD
Clutch: aprx 1.000 USD
Custom Exhaust and Headers: aprx 2,500 USD
Fuel pump aprx 500 USD
Misc costs aprx 2.000 USD
SUM 22.000 USD
pan from your LS3
intake ported from your ls3 or after market

Download the catalog....http://www.fuelairspark.com/WhatsNew...009f2009-1.pdf and look on page 21:
LSXR
™ 102mm Intake Manifold – LS7 Car #146202

+30hp/+25Tq over stock manifold..
so the 620 hp is now 650 hp for this engine.

P.S. there is no replacement for displacement 454ci v 376ci

k.... so if you are spending 30k on a motor/etc, might as well go all out. lol

ps.... see the second quote in my sig.
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:56 PM   #16
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id go for the ls9 personnaly. but thts just me. of course i wud NEVER be able to afford any of tht lol
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:18 PM   #17
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Unhappy

Thanks everyone for your input.
However I just figured out that if I order a SS2 now, I will not receive the car before Q4.
Since I live in Norway and I have only accepted one year project (Aug 2009- Aug 2010) in the USA for now, I will not have much time to enjoy the Camaro.
And to bring the car back to Norway is not an alternative because I must pay at least 120.000 USD in taxes!!
I will instead try to find a nice 06-08 Corvette Z06 and use it in FL, if I decide to stay longer then one year (my brother owns the company) I will defiantly try to get a SS2.

Regards,
Rick
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:43 AM   #18
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what i want to know is, what full custom exhaust setup are you gonna get for 1500 ??? Lots of options though, tough decision, i say go for option 1.
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