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Old 03-28-2011, 09:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by az2009se View Post
The company made the bad decision. The union does not run the company, it represents the workers.

Don't blame the union.
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Update on the issue from The local paper The Detroit news.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2...103242011&ts=H

Cars 'Held Hostage' In Legal Dispute

Delivery Company Refuses To Haul Hundreds Of GM, Chrysler Vehicles


POSTED: Thursday, March 24, 2011
UPDATED: 7:51 pm EDT March 24, 2011



DEARBORN, Mich. -- Hundreds of new General Motors and Chrysler vehicles are parked in a holding lot in Dearborn because of a dispute between the automakers and a car-hauling company.
Chrysler and GM said their vehicles, which are supposed to be delivered to local dealerships, are being "held hostage."
Watch: Automaker's' Dispute With Haulig Company Leaves Cars In Lot
The dispute is over how much the car-hauling company, Allied Systems, has asked the automakers to pay.
According to a driver for Allied Systems, the dispute started when Allied cut drivers' pay by 20 percent.
The driver, who asked not to be identified, said Allied Systems backed off the pay cut after the drivers' union threatened to strike.
The driver said at that point Allied Systems tried to make up the difference by imposing a fuel surcharge on the automakers.
General Motors and Chrysler have refused to pay the surcharge and have sued Allied Systems, demanding the vehicles be delivered.
The dispute has left auto salespersons, customers and delivery drivers caught in the middle.
"I feel like I'm in limbo," said one car-hauler who asked not to be identified. "It feels like it's a waiting game and we're kind of stuck in the middle. And we're just very hopeful that this gets worked out soon."
Car-haulers said they are also concerned about what the legal dispute will do to their jobs.
"The concern for my job is there because it's a battle between two very large companies," said a driver who works for Allied Systems. "I'm just hoping they can meet in the middle because a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake here."

yea ok dont blame the union
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:16 AM   #77
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i've always disliked the idea of unions... since i was born in the late 20th century not the late 19th century. maybe it's a little personal for me, owning my own company and all.

it's all business, if the workers refuse to take a pay cut and the customer refuses to pay the new cost of business... well i'd just say screw em both. close down and let the employees find new jobs and customers find new companies.

GM is just as much to blame for the current scenario as anyone. take the 15% (what are we talking here $100 per car max?!) hit and find a new shipper... it beats disappointing customers and HOPING they see it as allied's fault.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:30 AM   #78
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$100 per car max? MULTIPLY that buy the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of cars that will be shipped. It adds up pretty quick we're not talking pennies here. I'm sure they will find a new shipper after this crap settles.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:31 AM   #79
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It's not just a matter of 15% on cars in this situation, from what I've read they demanded a multi year contract at higher rates. Basically tearing up the current contract. That increase in shipping costs for years would dissapoint tons of future car buyers with higher costs.

Why pay x + when other suppliers are out their bidding and wanting the work at X - ? When you need to price compete with your vehicles, every dollar is a huge.

Take $100 times a couple million cars sold in the US per year? Ouch, maybe it is pretty smart to competitively bid shipping costs and sticking to contracts.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:43 AM   #80
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It's not just a matter of 15% on cars in this situation, from what I've read they demanded a multi year contract at higher rates. Basically tearing up the current contract. That increase in shipping costs for years would dissapoint tons of future car buyers with higher costs.

Why pay x + when other suppliers are out their bidding and wanting the work at X - ? When you need to price compete with your vehicles, every dollar is a huge.

Take $100 times a couple million cars sold in the US per year? Ouch, maybe it is pretty smart to competitively bid shipping costs and sticking to contracts.
$100 was my wild estimate based on what i have seen of ~$1000 delivery costs on a car.

you are talking less than 1% of the sale price of the car... yes over time as a contract it adds up. prices rise, it's a fact of life. GM was dealing with them for a reason , which is *more than likely* that they offered the best deal on the last contract.

i never said GM should just bend over and take it. i said pay it and FIND ANOTHER SHIPPER. this sends the message to me that GM cares more for a fraction of a percentage point than they do for providing customers with what they paid for. NEVER a good view point for a customer to have.

perception is reality, and for a company... customer perception is EVERYTHING.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #81
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A Rescue Mission should be coordinated....just sayin'
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #82
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Hmm... ok, let's imagine you're one of those union workers. Not sure how much truck drivers get paid, but I'm assuming it's not a huge amount. Now the company tells you you'll be getting 20% LESS than that amount. You're telling me you wouldn't have an issue with that? I know that if I had to take a 20% pay cut, yeah I could still pay my bills, but that would be about all I could afford. All work and no fun is no way to live life, especially when you have no clue how long those pay cuts will last... or if there will be further cuts down the line. Just sayin.
Welcome to the non-union economy.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:16 AM   #83
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isn't that GTA if the car's and trucks are paid for already?
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:26 AM   #84
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AMEN
ditto!
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:37 AM   #85
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pissing people off is what their intentions were,BUT what they have done is steal $47,000,000 worth items
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:40 AM   #86
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It's the UNION .. . . . . . .
So, just for giggles, say you make 50k a year. With a stroke of a pen from someone sitting in an office you now make 40k a year. And apparently you are fine with that happening to you? Dont blame the union, they kept that from happening to those drivers. Blame the company, they made the decision to hold the cars.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:48 AM   #87
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I read this whole thread and the situation stinks for sure. For all parties involved truck drivers GM and for the customers. What's most disturbing is with the economy and the way it is people hear union and go on the attack right away that the union is the fault for it all. I think everyone here is smart enough to know that we don't get or know the "whole" story. The truth of the matter is without labor unions nothing would be getting done the way it is today. If you want unskilled labor assembling your cars delivering them and working on them then that's your deal. The truth of the matter is at the end of the day the man that does a fair days work deserves a fair days pay all politics aside. If big business had it their way everyone would work for minimum wage with zero bennies. The only thing saving the little guy is the unions. And even the non union guys benefit from it, no one can hire a non union mechanic at 8 bucks an hour and get the same work you would of a well trained union guy at 30 bucks an hour. This goes with every part of our economy.

I could go on and on but I don't think this is the right forum for it. I just hope more people open up their eyes and instead of finding one entity to blame they look at the big picture.

I hope this gets cleared up fast.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:52 AM   #88
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So, just for giggles, say you make 50k a year. With a stroke of a pen from someone sitting in an office you now make 40k a year. And apparently you are fine with that happening to you? Dont blame the union, they kept that from happening to those drivers. Blame the company, they made the decision to hold the cars.
You guys keep saying stuff like "and you'd be fine with that??" Nobody's saying it's fun to take a pay cut. Those of us with common sense and dignity are saying we'd rather make $40k a year (as per your example) than drive the company out of business, myself out of a job, and impact innocent bystanders for my own personal gain. Now I don't know anything about Allied, and I'm not saying the management team is not at fault here. But I am saying that times are tough all around, and lots of people are having to take pay cuts. I guarantee none of them are "fine with that." But it's better than being out of a job, and it's sure as hell better than making my problem someone else's problem (such as what happens when airline pilots, taxi drivers, and truck drivers strike). I just see that as a very self-centered view of things...that my paycheck is more important than all these travelers getting to where they paid to go (case of airline pilots). I find that morally wrong, and could never be a party to that kind of thing. Just my humble opinion.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:04 PM   #89
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We live in a some what free enterprise system. So if Allied doesn't want or can't honor their contract, they are free to go out of business. Unless their costs are cut, I guess they are headed for bankruptcy. Part of those costs are in driver pay. If they go out of business, they won't be needing drivers. I guess a 80% loaf is worse than a 0% loaf. I lost my job to China and the next job I found cost me way over a 20% cut.

The business leaders are no more entitled to outrageous pay than the union leaders and some union workers. Both are greedy and only out to fill their pockets.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:05 PM   #90
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I know noone wants a paycut. I know noone is "okay" with it. 20% is outrageous and just maybe the Union would have been more receptive than they were to 20%. Not taking a 20% cut will not drive Allied out of business either. Just don't think it was fair, Union or non-union, to want 20%. I was a victim of 7%. It is not the union's fault that GM decided no to pay the fuel surcharge and that Allied decided to park the cars. Why blame the union for this situation?
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:07 PM   #91
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. The truth of the matter is without labor unions nothing would be getting done the way it is today.
no enough water in the world to make me swallow this. I know people that have worked in labor for one year and are excellent, skilled, non-union workers, and know "union-skilled" workers in the force for 10 years that can't turn a screw.

"This goes with every part of our economy". I don't think so, not like that in the IT world. Look at these teenagers coming out of highschool, creating games, programs, applications that people from college or companies have no idea how to code. It's a skill and skill is not necessarily measured in "years in the business".
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:39 PM   #92
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When people said rising fuel prices would kill off the muscle car, I doubt they pictured this scenario.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:47 PM   #93
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Man im glad i got my camaro when i did, i feel for everyone that has their car being held hostage. Nothing worse than being in a situation and knowing that there is nothing you can do about it besides sitting and waiting it out to see what the outcome will be. Times are hard and if no one is willing to budge, even though 20% is ridiculous, then its just a big domino effect.

Allied decided to cut their employees pay by 20% to avoid going bankrupt and in response to that the employees threatened to strike. So then Allied needed to get the money from somewhere so then they tried to impose a fuel surcharge to the automakers. The automakers are basically forced into a new contract with terms that they deem "wholly unacceptable" especially since they are currently already under contract. So we are at a stand still and the customers are stuck in the middle of this dispute

I think the company is mostly at fault here if i read everything correctly when GM had a contract and then the company goes and rips it up and says this is how its going to be. The company should of protected themselves with a clause of fuel prices going up and maybe they should of asked for a more reasonable cut like 5% and then the company could of took the rest of the cut themselves until they can negotiate another contract.

Not good for anyone bc Allied probably wont survive this situation and employees will loose their jobs as well as ruin their reputation. Taking the vehicles hostage is a very extreme act of protest, not a good idea for lawsuit reasons but they did get everyones attention.

I maybe wrong about somethings bc i dont entirely understand everything that goes on business wise with a situation like this. Have to keep this thread update with current events to see how long this plays out.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:49 PM   #94
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yeah this is how you get return business or new business, keep customers property and not let it go.

i guess this company wants to go out of business.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:06 PM   #95
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I don't care who is at fault. I JUST WANT MY CAR!!!!! It's been sitting in Dearborn, MI for 14 days now. My biggest question is (besides when I will get my car) is GM going to be doing anything for their customers who have been affected by this?
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:39 PM   #96
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$100 was my wild estimate based on what i have seen of ~$1000 delivery costs on a car.

you are talking less than 1% of the sale price of the car... yes over time as a contract it adds up. prices rise, it's a fact of life. GM was dealing with them for a reason , which is *more than likely* that they offered the best deal on the last contract.

i never said GM should just bend over and take it. i said pay it and FIND ANOTHER SHIPPER. this sends the message to me that GM cares more for a fraction of a percentage point than they do for providing customers with what they paid for. NEVER a good view point for a customer to have.

perception is reality, and for a company... customer perception is EVERYTHING.






WOW - didn't have time to read thru this entire thread - just the first couple of posts and the last couple...........

Hire another shipper? - not quite that simple - as there aren't any companies out there with thousands upon thousands of car carriers just sitting there awaiting someone to hire them............think about it for a minute.....

I am not involved in this dispute (and glad that I'm not........) but I DO know this: NOTHING is ever as easy as it seems - TRUST ME!
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:42 PM   #97
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The business leaders are no more entitled to outrageous pay than the union leaders and some union workers. Both are greedy and only out to fill their pockets.
This.

I'm all for a business owner or CEO to make as much money as they can or would like but, damn, how much is enough..?

Does the CEO "need" that 20 million dollar bonus each year, or could he survive on a 5 million dollar bonus each year..?..I mean C'mon Man! A business owner doesn't need to be a greedy whore to survive, but a lot of today's CEO's seem to think so. Yeah, I could strip my business financially and walk away to, but why..?

Then we have the unions. Squeeze the corporate big wigs with all their might. Non-union workers have a very hard time listening to all the "crying" from union workers on how they're so "under paid"....please. Non-union workers are sick of listening to all the stories on how "their buddy clocked them in at work so they could take off Friday (while getting paid) and head to their cabin up North". Or how everyone would sit around playing cards all day while getting paid. The regular working man does not feel your pain and frankly resents the crying.

Just envision this fantasy: Say a corporate CEO is set to receive a 20 million dollar bonus at the end of the year. Rather than take the full 20 million dollars (because the CEO doesn’t want to look like a greedy whore) the CEO only takes a 5 million dollar bonus (still a whore). He then authorizes the disbursement of the remaining 15 million equally to all the employees!! Can you imagine how much money would be flushed through the U.S.? Oh that's right, it would only make sense.

I’m sick of all the greed. It's gotten so bad in the past 15 years.

I would like to hand both Corporate and the Unions a Great Big Crowbar and ask that they use it to pry their heads out of their..

M
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:45 PM   #98
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Why should GM give you something because of what someone else is doing? Thats real smart! This is already costing GM millions in sales. They can't give you something because of someone else! Only makes cents (Sorry had to use that pun).
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:47 PM   #99
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Agree its GREED GREED GREED
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:49 PM   #100
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Why should GM give you something because of what someone else is doing? Thats real smart! This is already costing GM millions in sales. They can't give you something because of someone else! Only makes cents (Sorry had to use that pun).
Because I am their customer! And I would assume they would want to keep their customer happy!
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