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Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing Discussions on mechanical maintenance and servicing of your Camaro

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Old 04-27-2011, 04:07 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jehartley View Post
There is no "look" to signify that oil needs to be changed.
As an experienced technician, with master cert and sponsered performance vehicle building and racing experience I can say there is.

Oil is not supposed to be black, its a good indicator to start with. You can smell it and even inspect it in a lab. Do go facepalm your self a bit harder to find out where that loose bolt in your head is

Edit: maybe you would like to explain why oil turns black?
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by camarobrah View Post
As an experienced technician, with master cert and sponsered performance vehicle building and racing experience I can say there is.
You can say it all you want...doesn't make it true. I don't give a damn what your profession is, changing oil based on color is just stupid.

Quote:
Oil is not supposed to be black
Actually, yes, it is supposed to turn black if it is working.

Quote:
You can smell it
Yeah, to possibly have a hint in determining if their is too much fuel dilution (gassy smell) or if it's burned, but that's all you can gleam from smelling it.

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and even inspect it in a lab.
Exactly. The lab is the only place you can really discover anything significant about oil. Used oil analysis is the best way to determine how well or poor an oil is performing in any given engine. Making obtuse, blanket, 1970's type statements concerning color, however, doesn't help determine anything other than your obvious confusion between working on engines and properly understanding oil. Being an "experienced technician" or a "master cert" doesn't mean jack; nor does it qualify your BS statements about oil color as truth.

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Do go facepalm your self a bit harder to find out where that loose bolt in your head is
Really? That's what you're going to go with?

Quote:
Edit: maybe you would like to explain why oil turns black?
I can easily explain it, but you being such an "experienced technician" and all, I would suspect you'd already know that...then again, with the comments you've been posting around the forum, I highly doubt you know much at all.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:06 PM   #53
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Well looks like someone had their fruit loops pooped in this morning. Herp derp yea black oil cab mean alot. Not saying that OMG its dark change it but that it obviously s coming to the point it needs to be changed.

Go play with your legos or something and chill out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jehartley View Post
You can say it all you want...doesn't make it true. I don't give a damn what your profession is, changing oil based on color is just stupid.



Actually, yes, it is supposed to turn black if it is working.



Yeah, to possibly have a hint in determining if their is too much fuel dilution (gassy smell) or if it's burned, but that's all you can gleam from smelling it.



Exactly. The lab is the only place you can really discover anything significant about oil. Used oil analysis is the best way to determine how well or poor an oil is performing in any given engine. Making obtuse, blanket, 1970's type statements concerning color, however, doesn't help determine anything other than your obvious confusion between working on engines and properly understanding oil. Being an "experienced technician" or a "master cert" doesn't mean jack; nor does it qualify your BS statements about oil color as truth.



Really? That's what you're going to go with?



I can easily explain it, but you being such an "experienced technician" and all, I would suspect you'd already know that...then again, with the comments you've been posting around the forum, I highly doubt you know much at all.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:14 PM   #54
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I work for an oil additive company who supplies the ingredients to every manufaturer you see on the shelf. My job is engine oil test engineer. I run engines every day to test finished oils and get them approved for market. Color isn't a concern. Best way to be sure is have analytical tests run at a lab. If you are using synthetic 5000 miles should be no problem.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by jmat View Post
I work for an oil additive company who supplies the ingredients to every manufaturer you see on the shelf. My job is engine oil test engineer. I run engines every day to test finished oils and get them approved for market. Color isn't a concern. Best way to be sure is have analytical tests run at a lab. If you are using synthetic 5000 miles should be no problem.
Bingo.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:34 PM   #56
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camarobrah... here is your answer.

Oil turns black from carbon particles. These particles are from products of combustion. It gets in the oil through blowby around the rings. You will notice more in Diesel engines, high performance engines, or regular engines being run extra hard. The oil is designed to deal with this carbon and keep it from causing excessive wear. If it doesnt go into the oil and disperse (causing the black color) it will simply become sludge on your oil pan, valve covers, and anywhere else it can deposit itself. It has to go somewhere, in the oil you change regularly is the best option!
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:43 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmat View Post
I work for an oil additive company who supplies the ingredients to every manufaturer you see on the shelf. My job is engine oil test engineer. I run engines every day to test finished oils and get them approved for market. Color isn't a concern. Best way to be sure is have analytical tests run at a lab. If you are using synthetic 5000 miles should be no problem.
ok, explain this then,, we have 3 grades of bulk oil at work and multiple brands in quarts,, the last 6 months to a year or so the cheaper bulk oil has gotten lighter and lighter in color while the mid grade dexos and the mobil synthetic are a darker color.

well everyone at work uses the bulk oil for there own vehicles and we all change oil every 3000 miles, i tried the bulk cheap (i wont say what brand),, and my engine starting to have lifter tick(chevy equinox), i swapped to bottle synthetic and the lifter tick is gone

2 other guys have trucks with over 50,000 miles that have never used any oil between changes and all of a sudden they are both using over 2 qts in 3000 miles,, they both started using bottle mid grade oil and both of them stopped using any oil

along with all the cust vehicles that have oil issues now.

this wasnt just 1 bad batch of oil either, as we move lots of oil and our tanks are filled every 2 weeks and all these vehicles had several oil changes with oil consumpition before switching oils

gm is having big issues with trucks and suv's using oil, it just seems that the cheaper oils dont have what it takes to hold up, especially in hard conditions., then you look at the gm oil life monitor on these vehicles that let a person go over 7000 miles and still show 40% oil life ,, but the car has drank 2-3qts already

never had any of these issues before when everyone knew you change your oil at 3000 miles or 3 months,, and before many of the additives were taken away from oil
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Last edited by camaro1; 04-27-2011 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:49 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmat View Post
I work for an oil additive company who supplies the ingredients to every manufaturer you see on the shelf. My job is engine oil test engineer. I run engines every day to test finished oils and get them approved for market. Color isn't a concern. Best way to be sure is have analytical tests run at a lab. If you are using synthetic 5000 miles should be no problem.
Hatco, Ethyl, Afton, Mobil?
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:02 PM   #59
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NavyDood - none of these

camaro1 -
Do u mean the oil is changing color while in the bulk tank ( no answer for this one), or is it lighter whenever it arrives new? If it's lighter when it arrives new and is a cheaper oil than it may not have a consistent additive package. The company may not be using the same additive supplier for every batch and this can effect color. In general most oils, even the best, get additives supplied from different companies and are typically geographical based.

As for issues with cheaper oils... you get what you pay for.

The oil sensor has nothing to do with actual oil quality. It uses an algorithm based on driving conditions (speed, temps, etc). It is a best guess correlated with engine test results in a lab. It does not measure actual oil quality. there are some manufacturers going to an actual oil life monitoring system that does this, but it is rare at this point.

Actually the current oil specs require more additives to meet the criteria to take an oil to market. It is a myth that oil companies are using less additives vs. years ago. A cheap oil today will have more/better additives than the same oil from years past. This doesn't mean that cheaper oils have less than expensive oils. That's why they are expensive. Again, you get what you pay for.

Always remember that when you buy oil to check the little logo with the specs in it. Make sure it is the current spec. Oils on the shelf that are cheap may only be intended for use in older vehicles and are licensed that way. Check your manual for the spec your car recommends.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #60
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Look guys, we can argue about how dark an oil should be before you change it all day long. You can't determine exactly howuch oil life is left just by looking at it. Odds are if you're using good quality synthetic oil and changing it every 5k miles, you should still have decent oil life left which is ideal. If you're changing your oil at the max interval then chances are the oil is burnt up and not providing adequate protection anymore. If you want to use the extended interval and plan to own the car out of warranty, do so with caution. If you use an extended life oil and change it early, you'll have a happy engine for life.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:40 PM   #61
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NavyDood - none of these
Hmmmm. Interesting. Who do you supply to then, Warren Distributors? What oils engine oil, Tranny Fluids, gear oils?

Last edited by NavyDood; 04-29-2011 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:35 AM   #62
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Can anyone tell me by looking at this oil if it is bad? Guess what? It's not. That oil had 22,500 miles on it and was good for continued use. A visual inspection of oil means nothing. If you saw metal flakes and blah blah blah in your oil when changing it, then you ahve a whole other world of hurt going on in the engine.

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Old 04-29-2011, 11:56 AM   #63
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Has anybody sent out a sample to a lab to see how it compares to the Oil Life Monitor?
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