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Old 05-27-2011, 05:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Are we going to stick with dry sump or switch over? Maybe he was thinking about that too
LS7, converted to wet sump, with ZL1 wheels/tires = 1SS Curb Weight.

As Production-ready, currently, LS3 = 426hp, while LS7 = 505hp...maybe 500 with Camaro exhaust (remember, Vette LS3 = 430, Base...).

Co$t$? Priced as crate engines from GM PP, LS7 is LE$$ than LSA, even after purchasing the necessary controller and harness. Partial credit for deleted LS3, so...

1SS + LS7 + HD MN6 + Forged 20s + FE4 = low-$40s (BOSS money).

But ya gotta wanna do it...
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:51 PM   #19
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I like your math
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
LS7, converted to wet sump, with ZL1 wheels/tires = 1SS Curb Weight.

As Production-ready, currently, LS3 = 426hp, while LS7 = 505hp...maybe 500 with Camaro exhaust (remember, Vette LS3 = 430, Base...).

Co$t$? Priced as crate engines from GM PP, LS7 is LE$$ than LSA, even after purchasing the necessary controller and harness. Partial credit for deleted LS3, so...

1SS + LS7 + HD MN6 + Forged 20s + FE4 = low-$40s (BOSS money).

But ya gotta wanna do it...
Isn't our cam different than 'Vette's LS3? Regardless - That's a nice combo' you've got there
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Isn't our cam different than 'Vette's LS3? Regardless - That's a nice combo' you've got there
I believe it is the exhaust that allows an extra 5HP in the Vette.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
LS7, converted to wet sump, with ZL1 wheels/tires = 1SS Curb Weight.

As Production-ready, currently, LS3 = 426hp, while LS7 = 505hp...maybe 500 with Camaro exhaust (remember, Vette LS3 = 430, Base...).

Co$t$? Priced as crate engines from GM PP, LS7 is LE$$ than LSA, even after purchasing the necessary controller and harness. Partial credit for deleted LS3, so...

1SS + LS7 + HD MN6 + Forged 20s + FE4 = low-$40s (BOSS money).

But ya gotta wanna do it...
I think your right.
$7,000. Difference between the LS7 & LS3. Then $31,000. For a SS1. $2,000. For the suspension. Wheels, HD drivetrain & Misc. $3,000. - $4,000. More = $43,000.+. All from the parts bin. Just think of how easy it would be to market a 427 Z28,

Oh, what dreams are made of.
I'll buy one right now! Just badge it Z28!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not Number 3?
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:09 PM   #23
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LS7 block
LS7 crank
PM rods
LS7 pistons
LS3 heads and intake

470 HP 470 TQ

There, 427 inch motor, way cheaper than LS7
and more under the curve power than a hopped up LS3
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I believe it is the exhaust that allows an extra 5HP in the Vette.
cam and exhaust are different
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:48 PM   #25
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If it can be kept to 3,800 lbs. And RWHP is 435 we get a 11.99 1/4 mile at 113.5 mph.
I say bring the Boss(?) on!
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
What are your thoughts?

I'd buy one factory built now!
What you've speced out will cost more than a ZL1 but won't have the performance of the ZL1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I really think the gen 5 Z28, if one is made, will be the SS + "track pack" + Z28 badging...no new engine. I think the gen 6 Z28 has more potential as rumors indicate a possible 5.5L V8 in the lineup. That could leave the SS with a new 6.2L and the Z28 with the race insprired 5.5L V8.
5.5 is simply a road race required displacement. And in race trim it make 485 HP. Meeting durability and emissions, it would make much less. Rumors

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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
GM,
Why not make a Z28 for the 5Gen? Use the LS7 before it fades into oblivion! Make a car that declares we at GM love our street/track enthusiast! A car that will be remembered for the fact that GM could and they did!
I know the ZL1 is the "it" car, but F**d has the Gt500 and the Boss. Why you ask? Two different buyers, the I want it all Grand Touring customer and the corner carver/track customer. The Z28 would/could be a parts binner. It would market itself no doubt.
Just build it!!!
Just build it, but would you pay for the LS7? And do you really think you can get a non MR car to handle better than a ZL1? There is a reason why the ZR1 has MR....................it's really, really good.

Just questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
LS7, converted to wet sump, with ZL1 wheels/tires = 1SS Curb Weight.

As Production-ready, currently, LS3 = 426hp, while LS7 = 505hp...maybe 500 with Camaro exhaust (remember, Vette LS3 = 430, Base...).

Co$t$? Priced as crate engines from GM PP, LS7 is LE$$ than LSA, even after purchasing the necessary controller and harness. Partial credit for deleted LS3, so...

1SS + LS7 + HD MN6 + Forged 20s + FE4 = low-$40s (BOSS money).

But ya gotta wanna do it...
Not simply a matter of wanting to do it. Needs a SOLID business case on top of the SS and ZL1. But your math seems in the ball park. An LS7, forged wheels and HD trans for a 10 to 12,000 dollar premium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I like your math
What's not to like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I think your right.
$7,000. Difference between the LS7 & LS3. Then $31,000. For a SS1. $2,000. For the suspension. Wheels, HD drivetrain & Misc. $3,000. - $4,000. More = $43,000.+. All from the parts bin. Just think of how easy it would be to market a 427 Z28,

Oh, what dreams are made of.
I'll buy one right now! Just badge it Z28!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not Number 3?
Have to keep in mind, the parts might be there but there is a TON of engineering to get them all put together and actually handle a race track. I know you guys want to think it's easy. It's just not.

But hard work is what we're all about at GM, so ..................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearBangr View Post
LS7 block
LS7 crank
PM rods
LS7 pistons
LS3 heads and intake

470 HP 470 TQ

There, 427 inch motor, way cheaper than LS7
and more under the curve power than a hopped up LS3
But you've just created an even lower volume engine. And that means hand built at Wixom. And that still means BIG $$$$.

So you are just eliminating the titanium $$$ bits then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
If it can be kept to 3,800 lbs. And RWHP is 435 we get a 11.99 1/4 mile at 113.5 mph.
I say bring the Boss(?) on!
Sounds like you want a drag car, not a track car.
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:40 PM   #27
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^actually I want it all!
Speed, handling & braking.
Ah Thank You Very Much.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:30 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
If it can be kept to 3,800 lbs. And RWHP is 435 we get a 11.99 1/4 mile at 113.5 mph.
I say bring the Boss(?) on!
Not the best comparison, the Boss and a future Z/28 should be track oriented (premium put on handling) rather than quarter mile stormers. Of course, it would be nice to have the best of both worlds!
Clyde
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:22 AM   #29
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Not simply a matter of wanting to do it. Needs a SOLID business case on top of the SS and ZL1. But your math seems in the ball park. An LS7, forged wheels and HD trans for a 10 to 12,000 dollar premium.
There isn't a single component, here, that doesn't already exist and/or isn't GM-certified/validated, now or shortly.

This is not a new concept... All manner of Camaro-based support for a BOSS-specific competitor exists, and has since well before the BOSS appeared...

Serious discussions occurred in Summer/Fall-'09, regarding this type of Package. Through an enterprise well-regarded by GM, but ultimately lacking Team support, then; the supply of cars was given as the "issue" and, as you know, "two-sticker" Programs are "banned". But that was "then"...and this is "now". Since then, ZL1-specific components await: trans, HD driveline, brakes, wheels/tires; FE4 is now developed.

Just how many Camaros, as spec'd above, does the Team need to create a Spring-'12 Launch? 2,000? 5,000? 2-per-Dealer?

Float this specific idea in HRM, or Motor Trend, or CandD, or Camaro Performers and see what the response is. Fulfilling the above numbers would happen!

Regardless of the numbers required, I can GUARANTEE you 1...Black-on-Black, hold the stripes!

Oh, and the name? Does anyone need to ASK?!

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 05-28-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:41 AM   #30
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Not the best comparison, the Boss and a future Z/28 should be track oriented (premium put on handling) rather than quarter mile stormers. Of course, it would be nice to have the best of both worlds!
Clyde
I believe tha handling goes without saying (at this point the expectations have been discussed) We are making a case for the use of the LS7 in the Z28 as a last hurrah before it the LS7 goes away. The numbers show it would make sense in competing with the Boss. Plus it along with the other items suggested are avaiable. I say just do it for the Gen5, the Gen6 will be what has to be based on the times and circumstances.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:08 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
There isn't a single component, here, that doesn't already exist and/or isn't GM-certified/validated, now or shortly.

This is not a new concept... All manner of Camaro-based support for a BOSS-specific competitor exists, and has since well before the BOSS appeared...

Serious discussions occurred in Summer/Fall-'09, regarding this type of Package. Through an enterprise well-regarded by GM, but ultimately lacking Team support, then; the supply of cars was given as the "issue" and, as you know, "two-sticker" Programs are "banned". But that was "then"...and this is "now". Since then, ZL1-specific components await: trans, HD driveline, brakes, wheels/tires; FE4 is now developed.

Just how many Camaros, as spec'd above, does the Team need to create a Spring-'12 Launch? 2,000? 5,000? 2-per-Dealer?

Float this specific idea in HRM, or Motor Trend, or CandD, or Camaro Performers and see what the response is. Fulfilling the above numbers would happen!

Regardless of the numbers required, I can GUARANTEE you 1...Black-on-Black, hold the stripes!

Oh, and the name? Does anyone need to ASK?!
What is a two sticker program?
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:19 AM   #32
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Yep. Eliminating the titanium parts, and the cnc LS7 heads. If you can do without the dry sump setup. There's another 1k in parts there too. The LS3 from the GS is handbuilt too. It'll still be cheaper than th LS7. I just want the big motor.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:32 AM   #33
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Not saying it wouldn't be an awesome car because it would, but I really don't want to see a 3800 pound car called z28. JMO
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:05 PM   #34
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Funny, in 1970, there were 3800 lb. Camaros...an SS396/M40/C60-loaded...and they did not enjoy the structure or the "safety/technology" of the current versions...

Two-sticker? SLP (SS/Firehawks) wore two stickers...one from GM, one from SLP, but sold and warranted directly by GM Dealers.

As to a de-contented LS7, first of all, it doesn't exist...and therefore must suffer through all the certification/validation processes (time/$$$$)...to arrive at a place with lower power/lower redline/less durability (perhaps) and LESS VALUE. Powdered rods tossing heavier, bigger-bore pistons is not my idea of "performance" and, ultimately, may save little/nothing per low volume (relatively) unit.

Go with the BEST you have, that meets Production criteria...NOW! Built, as I say (and the Market reality would be), in low volume, any added costs and complications simply endanger the Business Case...
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