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Old 05-28-2011, 12:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Stealing customers away from the SS & ZL1 doesn't help a whole lot.
...and losing 5,000 potential buyers/year to the BOSS (it's production capacity, apparently) doesn't help AT ALL...
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearBangr;3274399[B
]LSA is a way toned down LS9[/B]
I think we can get a toned down LS7.

On GMs defense however, they still have many flavors of corvettes and cadillacs to develop before camaro. So that's another reason for slower response times.
Ford has the mustang and that's it.
Ummmmhhhh. No it's not.

LSA and LS9 are 2 completely different engines.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by GearBangr View Post
LSA is a way toned down LS9
I think we can get a toned down LS7.
By the time you go through ALL the hoops 'n hurdles to build LESS (in relatively limited numbers), your end unit co$t$ will likely be about the SAME...so why do it?

If it's gonna cost me $42,500 to get 475hp, or $42,900 to get 505hp (without risking my warranty with a dyno-tune!!!), sign me up @ $42,900. And make 'er Black-on-Black.

Here's my VISA #...


BTW, LS9 (638) - LSA (556) = 82 hp. LS7 (505) - LS3 (426) = 79. So your toned-down LS7 already exists...no extra charge.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
...and losing 5,000 potential buyers/year to the BOSS (it's production capacity, apparently) doesn't help AT ALL...
Camaro is still out selling the Mustang.... Honestly how many people really cross shop between the two? Seems to me us car guys like one or the other and cant stand the other
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
Ummmmhhhh. No it's not.

LSA and LS9 are 2 completely different engines.
I know that's my point.
Smaller blower, cast pistons, smaller cam.
I'm not sure about the rods, but I'm willing to bet theyr
Not titanium. Etc.

If the lsa didn't exist and someone here suggested that exactly,
everyone here would call them crazy.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Camaro is still out selling the Mustang.... Honestly how many people really cross shop between the two? Seems to me us car guys like one or the other and cant stand the other
There's a difference between "enthusiast" and "fanboy"... I don't belong to a single Mustang forum, anywhere, but I DO like, and will consider (if GM sits idle), a BOSS. And I don't think I'm alone... The ZL1 is NOT "my cup of tea". I refuse to pay a TON of extra dough for something that is NOT a crisp canyon carver. And yes, a ZL1 will set you back at least 10-15% MORE than this "Zee" should be... To ME, that's a TON of dough. And it would stair-step the V8 Camaro price ladder: 1SS = low-mid-$30s; 2SS = mid-upper-$30s; ZL1 = $50+; Z/28 = $40s...

I, for one, was happy when Z28...or Z/28...was NOT used as a name for what we now know as the ZL1. NOW, we have a window of opportunity for THIS Gen Camaro for a REAL Z/28. And, although it's not a new concept, or even MY concept, the one outlined here by me is as close as is likely do-able, this time around, for close-to-BOSS money AND results...
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:01 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I would bet that its taking them 'so long to respond' so that they can have a clear product cadence for the Camaro. Start with the coupe, then the vert, then the ZL1, then the Z28, then the new engines, then the next gen, etc. It keeps the buzz about the product alive which always gives customers a new reason to be in show rooms. The one wrench that was thrown in was that after release, everything was probably delayed by about one year due to bankruptcy. I would imagine that development of all non-essential product was halted in an effort to save cash. Convertibles weren't needed. Super high performance Camaros weren't needed. Track focused Camaros weren't needed. Factory drag cars weren't needed (like the Cobra Jet Mustang).

From GM's perspective its not about going model for model and beating Ford. Their biggest concern is how to make money. Throwing a bunch of off the shelf parts is cheaper than developing all new stuff, but the testing & tuning & validation for it on the Camaro isn't pocket change. Same goes for engines. To offer a Z28, they have to know that there are enough distinct customers for that car to more than make back their investment. Stealing customers away from the SS & ZL1 doesn't help a whole lot.

And don't forget ... right now the Camaro coupe and convertible are handily outselling the Mustang in all its forms, with fewer incentives. That means they're probably making more money off the Camaro than Ford is off the Mustang, and that is more important to them than braging rights are to you and I.
After reading your post I think you made our point. That is off the shelf parts enable GM to more quickly and more reasonably ready a Z28. Coming out with the ZL1 was an answer to Ford. A Z28 is a GM staple. The fact that the Camaro is out selling the Mustang is the perfect reason to add to the Camaro family and get even more or make new customers. And is there ANYONE out there that thinks a Z28 won't sell??????????
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:04 PM   #50
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Not saying it wouldn't be an awesome car because it would, but I really don't want to see a 3800 pound car called z28. JMO
Welcome to the future.
Even the Gen6 will be heavy. Too many certification safety blah blah blah....
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Who says they are not leading? I still dont see Ford with a 2 seat sports car that can rival the Vette

What product have they not responded to from Ford? The Boss that JUST came out?? Besides the fact that it just came out who says you have to have a competitor for each car the other guy has. If you have to have a competitor then I say GM is leading... see Vette comment above
The Vette is a niche car made in low volumes. The Camaro is a highly profitable much more mainstream vehicle that should be exploited for the good of GM, and all humanity.

Ok maybe I did get a little carried away at the end.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by GearBangr View Post
LSA is a way toned down LS9
I think we can get a toned down LS7.

On GMs defense however, they still have many flavors of corvettes and cadillacs to develop before camaro. So that's another reason for slower response times.
Ford has the mustang and that's it.
WE NEED TO STICK TO THE BUSINESS MODEL THAT ALLOWS FOR EXISTING PIECES!!!

Starting something new pushes this forward by years.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Camaro is still out selling the Mustang.... Honestly how many people really cross shop between the two? Seems to me us car guys like one or the other and cant stand the other
My mother is cross-shopping right now! She is 68 and still loves cars. I believe she has convinced herself to go with the Camaro. Ok I helped a little bit.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:29 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
There's a difference between "enthusiast" and "fanboy"... I don't belong to a single Mustang forum, anywhere, but I DO like, and will consider (if GM sits idle), a BOSS. And I don't think I'm alone... The ZL1 is NOT "my cup of tea". I refuse to pay a TON of extra dough for something that is NOT a crisp canyon carver. And yes, a ZL1 will set you back at least 10-15% MORE than this "Zee" should be... To ME, that's a TON of dough. And it would stair-step the V8 Camaro price ladder: 1SS = low-mid-$30s; 2SS = mid-upper-$30s; ZL1 = $50+; Z/28 = $40s...

I, for one, was happy when Z28...or Z/28...was NOT used as a name for what we now know as the ZL1. NOW, we have a window of opportunity for THIS Gen Camaro for a REAL Z/28. And, although it's not a new concept, or even MY concept, the one outlined here by me is as close as is likely do-able, this time around, for close-to-BOSS money AND results...
You read my mind.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:32 PM   #55
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BTW, to those who use the excuse the LS7 is near its end etc., call GM PP and see if they're interested in selling you a truck-load of LS7s. I know the answer: "Where would you like them to be delivered?" "Are you sure you wouldn't like more...?"

As to "reading minds", I too am an enthusiast...and will spend MY hard-saved buck$ where I get what I want...and that, friends, is as it should be.

My allegiance, and my wish? As stated by "the concept"...I was, after all, "involved" in the '09 still-born "program"...
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
BTW, to those who use the excuse the LS7 is near its end etc., call GM PP and see if they're interested in selling you a truck-load of LS7s. I know the answer: "Where would you like them to be delivered?" "Are you sure you wouldn't like more...?"

As to "reading minds", I too am an enthusiast...and will spend MY hard-saved buck$ where I get what I want...and that, friends, is as it should be.
Amen my brother.

It's all about value.
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