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Old 05-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
I refuse to pay a TON of extra dough for something that is NOT a crisp canyon carver.
Its not even out yet.... you just assume its not going to be a canyon carver. I on the other hand have full faith that it is going to shred canyon roads!

I guess we will just have to wait and see!
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:08 PM   #58
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BTW, to those who use the excuse the LS7 is near its end etc., call GM PP and see if they're interested in selling you a truck-load of LS7s. I know the answer: "Where would you like them to be delivered?" "Are you sure you wouldn't like more...?"

As to "reading minds", I too am an enthusiast...and will spend MY hard-saved buck$ where I get what I want...and that, friends, is as it should be.

My allegiance, and my wish? As stated by "the concept"...I was, after all, "involved" in the '09 still-born "program"...
Well maybe I misread your earlier posts, but it seems like were on the same page.
If they make an LS7 z28, I will buy one. I agree with everything you said there.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:25 PM   #59
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Its not even out yet.... you just assume its not going to be a canyon carver. I on the other hand have full faith that it is going to shred canyon roads!

I guess we will just have to wait and see!
4000+ lbs, even with MR, will NOT be the scalpel I desire...and I'm sure your buddy JusticePete, off the record, will appreciate the difference.

I'm the guy that had a '68 Z/28 back in the day, when people thought 396/375 was the only way to go. Sure they kicked my ass for a 1/4 mile, but on the turn to the return road, I got to say, "B-Bye!". I'm paraphrasing...

I'm not maligning the ZL1...I don't have $50-55K to play with. If I can save 200lbs. on the nose with similar wheels and tires and brakes, and therefore increased cornering capabilities without MR, and leave the best part of $10Gs in my pocket, I'm a happy dude, dude!

That's the difference between owning, and NOT owning, your Silverado SS, roughly...
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:26 PM   #60
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BTW, to those who use the excuse the LS7 is near its end etc., call GM PP and see if they're interested in selling you a truck-load of LS7s. I know the answer: "Where would you like them to be delivered?" "Are you sure you wouldn't like more...?"
It does not cost GM anything for you to drop a motor in your car. It does however cost GM a ton of money for GM to drop a different motor in your car. Validation is nowhere near a cheap process.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:33 PM   #61
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The LS7 is Production-ready...it's called a Corvette... It simply (?) needs to be "EPA'd" in a Camaro...and that, as your inside sources will tell you, is a whole lot easier/simpler/quicker/less costly that tweakin' a not-ready-for-prime-time LS3-based one-off...

EDIT: "EPA" should read "Government-ready"...
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:36 PM   #62
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Welcome to the future.
Even the Gen6 will be heavy. Too many certification safety blah blah blah....
Still, next gen shouldn't be as heavy as the current cars. Hopefully the Camaro will get scaled down overall in the next gen and be able to shed 100 lbs or so. And if the z could take another 100 off of that that'd be great. Don't think it's too unrealistic just talking about it now, but of course things are always changing. Cant wait to see what Chevrolet can come up with in a few years
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:39 PM   #63
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Gen-6? A whole 'nother story...
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:51 PM   #64
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Gen-6? A whole 'nother story...
ah I guess I've just been thinking there'd be no 5th gen boss competitor and my mind automatically took me to the sixth gen/off topic for this thread whoops haha.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:55 PM   #65
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Chevrolet has most of it's chips on the ZL1. I honestly believe we are going to get our Z/28 but not until ZL1's are cruising the streets. Do you think Chevrolet wants a "thunder stealing" Z/28 to compete against ZL1 sales? I know who would win that battle and so does Chevrolet.

I have dog cussed Ford and bleed G.M. blue, but that Boss mustang is bad ass.

The Z/28 is coming, because it's just to damn easy.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:12 PM   #66
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re-read it ...

ZL1 -LSA -MR+ LS7 + Pedders Coilovers = Z28
It reads as bullet points

ZL1
LSA+LS7
MR+Pedders coilovers


That's why it made no sense. if you put a space between each it would have read right

LSA, -LSA + LS7, -MR +Pedders Coilovers

Would have been much easier
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:00 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
It reads as bullet points

ZL1
LSA+LS7
MR+Pedders coilovers


That's why it made no sense. if you put a space between each it would have read right

LSA, -LSA + LS7, -MR +Pedders Coilovers

Would have been much easier
Order of opperations does not matter with addition & subtraction ...
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:26 PM   #68
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I would bet that its taking them 'so long to respond' so that they can have a clear product cadence for the Camaro. Start with the coupe, then the vert, then the ZL1, then the Z28, then the new engines, then the next gen, etc. It keeps the buzz about the product alive which always gives customers a new reason to be in show rooms. The one wrench that was thrown in was that after release, everything was probably delayed by about one year due to bankruptcy. I would imagine that development of all non-essential product was halted in an effort to save cash. Convertibles weren't needed. Super high performance Camaros weren't needed. Track focused Camaros weren't needed. Factory drag cars weren't needed (like the Cobra Jet Mustang).

From GM's perspective its not about going model for model and beating Ford. Their biggest concern is how to make money. Throwing a bunch of off the shelf parts is cheaper than developing all new stuff, but the testing & tuning & validation for it on the Camaro isn't pocket change. Same goes for engines. To offer a Z28, they have to know that there are enough distinct customers for that car to more than make back their investment. Stealing customers away from the SS & ZL1 doesn't help a whole lot.

And don't forget ... right now the Camaro coupe and convertible are handily outselling the Mustang in all its forms, with fewer incentives. That means they're probably making more money off the Camaro than Ford is off the Mustang, and that is more important to them than braging rights are to you and I.
Understand, but, if money outweighs product, with the understanding that each model can't lose money, and if they still can't compete (i.e. = Boss) then I may have to look elsewhere. I know I am in the minority,but there are a significant number of us that compare model for model, $ for $, performance point verse performance point. Again, just my $02. Thoughts, anyone?
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The LS7 is Production-ready...it's called a Corvette... It simply (?) needs to be "EPA'd" in a Camaro...and that, as your inside sources will tell you, is a whole lot easier/simpler/quicker/less costly that tweakin' a not-ready-for-prime-time LS3-based one-off...

EDIT: "EPA" should read "Government-ready"...
Plopping. Sorry but it isn't plug and play. Shno hit it on the nose. Still a LOZt of work to do for any powertrain change. Just cuz it seems simple s
Doesn't mean it is.
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:43 PM   #70
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Understand, but, if money outweighs product, with the understanding that each model can't lose money, and if they still can't compete (i.e. = Boss) then I may have to look elsewhere. I know I am in the minority,but there are a significant number of us that compare model for model, $ for $, performance point verse performance point. Again, just my $02. Thoughts, anyone?
I want them to win shot for shot too, and I imagine most Camaro enthusiasts would like to see it so I wouldn't say you're in the minority. The problem is, how many would actually buy a Z28 and only a Z28 instead of a SS or ZL1? Unless its thousands per year, they don't have a very strong case to do it. I myself might be inclined to buy a Z28, but I bet I would be just as happy with an SS. People like me don't really help the business case for a Z28 since GM isn't really going to gain anything from me unless they have a substantially higher profit margin on the Z28. Same goes for those who would be caught between a ZL1 & a Z28.

Now, they might do a Z28 as we more or less envision it. They might not. But if they do, I can't see GM saying anything about it until the ZL1 is out and that is over 6 months away as is.
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Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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