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Old 06-14-2011, 02:23 PM   #226
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Some of you are dreaming on this price thing. Never said I knew it for sure but IMO it will be around that 60k price tag. And if you think there will be no mark ups the let's get real here. The SS was marked up in some places almost 10k over sticker. Why wouldn't they do that to a higher performance Camaro? If the ZL1 is a better performer than the GT500, then expect it to be priced accordingly. Wake up people.....not bashing the car, just trying to get some of you to start thinking logically and stop this low balling price talk. GM is in the business of making money and if all these options make it in the production model, prepare for higher price and pretty big mark ups.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:35 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
Some of you are dreaming on this price thing. Never said I knew it for sure but IMO it will be around that 60k price tag. And if you think there will be no mark ups the let's get real here. The SS was marked up in some places almost 10k over sticker. Why wouldn't they do that to a higher performance Camaro? If the ZL1 is a better performer than the GT500, then expect it to be priced accordingly. Wake up people.....not bashing the car, just trying to get some of you to start thinking logically and stop this low balling price talk. GM is in the business of making money and if all these options make it in the production model, prepare for higher price and pretty big mark ups.
The official word so far from GM is that the ZL1 will be priced competitively. That means that it will be in the same price range as the GT500, the ZL1's main competition. There is nothing that has been stated from GM that should lead one to believe that the ZL1's base price will be $60K.

Also, GM does not make any money from dealer mark up -- the dealer does. There are plenty of dealers, including sponsors on this site, that will sell the ZL1 for MSRP.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:37 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
Some of you are dreaming on this price thing. Never said I knew it for sure but IMO it will be around that 60k price tag. And if you think there will be no mark ups the let's get real here. The SS was marked up in some places almost 10k over sticker. Why wouldn't they do that to a higher performance Camaro? If the ZL1 is a better performer than the GT500, then expect it to be priced accordingly. Wake up people.....not bashing the car, just trying to get some of you to start thinking logically and stop this low balling price talk. GM is in the business of making money and if all these options make it in the production model, prepare for higher price and pretty big mark ups.


Well, I have been kinda ignoring your negativity, but now you are just plain WRONG! GM has NOTHING to do with any MARK UP....NOTHING!!! that is all based on your dealer...
You have said nothing positive about the car, all you have done is criticize the whole thing. "if the ZL1 is better" that isn't negative at all...

Plain and simple, the CTS-V BEAT the GT500 in every way. Now the ZL1 will have everything (suspension, engine, drivetrain, weight) the CTS-V has, but better and newer and lighter

What are you considering "around 60K"? 55, 57? Give a plus or minus from your 60....

GM has said it will be competitively priced, so if that means it is the same price as a GT500, then that is still less than $60,000 and it will smoke the GT500 and in my opinion, that is a BETTER DEAL/BARGAIN...... would I like the ZL1 to be in the mid to high 40's of course, but that is pie in the sky..

The more accurate price range as to where this thing comes in at is $51,000 +/- 3,000


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Old 06-14-2011, 02:41 PM   #229
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GT500 base model is $48,800.

That's what we're being competitive with, so I'm guessing about the same to just under 50k. 55-57k all loaded up with options.


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Old 06-14-2011, 03:14 PM   #230
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I never said GM had anything to do with the mark ups. I just said to expect them. I haven't been all negative on the car. Most of the people onthis thread are just quick to attack anyone with any idea different than their own. Basically if you go against the grain here, you get all your words twisted around by people that obviously don't pay attention to what they have read. Fully loaded ZL1 IMO will be right at 60k. A lesser loaded one around 55k. Just an opinion people, don't get so d**n defensive all the time. This forum is for opinions as well as fact. Get off your high horses.....
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:18 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
I never said GM had anything to do with the mark ups. I just said to expect them. I haven't been all negative on the car. Most of the people onthis thread are just quick to attack anyone with any idea different than their own. Basically if you go against the grain here, you get all your words twisted around by people that obviously don't pay attention to what they have read. Fully loaded ZL1 IMO will be right at 60k. A lesser loaded one around 55k. Just an opinion people, don't get so d**n defensive all the time. This forum is for opinions as well as fact. Get off your high horses.....

Geez, why so defensive?
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:43 PM   #232
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And on another note......all the extra goodies on the ZL1 are great, but to upgrade to the ones you actually need on an SS is not that expensive. I have no drivability issues and no trouble with braking. I won't be on a road course so I'm good there too. Driveshaft is fine and so is the tranny. If they go, I will replace them. I'm sure the car is a bargain, but I for one am not butt hurt by it for any reason. I like my early production SS. And it makes it even more fun when a car that is not supposed to be that fast wipes the floor with Shelbys and Z06's at the track. I also don't care about the ZL1 name. I didn't mod mine to be one. I modded it to be a bad ass SS pony killer.
Is the 11.7 in your sig your best run? I'd assume you'd have your best in your sig,but in another post you said your car ran low 10's.

What are the current #'s on your car?

Edit: Note to self.....read all of thread before asking questions. Your car sounds like a beast,enjoy it. Where do you run? I'm from NC too & get out to the track pretty often.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:44 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
Some of you are dreaming on this price thing. Never said I knew it for sure but IMO it will be around that 60k price tag.
You state that, in your opinion, the ZL1 price will be around that $60K price tag. You did not qualify the $60K price as a fully loaded price. It's not an unreasonable inference to conclude that the $60k price you stated was in reference to a base price, as is common and customary when comparing the prices of vehicles without specifically indicating otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
And if you think there will be no mark ups the let's get real here. The SS was marked up in some places almost 10k over sticker. Why wouldn't they do that to a higher performance Camaro? If the ZL1 is a better performer than the GT500, then expect it to be priced accordingly. Wake up people.....not bashing the car, just trying to get some of you to start thinking logically and stop this low balling price talk. GM is in the business of making money and if all these options make it in the production model, prepare for higher price and pretty big mark ups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
I never said GM had anything to do with the mark ups. I just said to expect them.
You mention GM and big mark ups in the same sentence with no reference to dealers. Therefore, a logical inference would be that you are implying that GM is responsible for the big markups.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
I haven't been all negative on the car. Most of the people onthis thread are just quick to attack anyone with any idea different than their own. Basically if you go against the grain here, you get all your words twisted around by people that obviously don't pay attention to what they have read. Fully loaded ZL1 IMO will be right at 60k. A lesser loaded one around 55k. Just an opinion people, don't get so d**n defensive all the time. This forum is for opinions as well as fact. Get off your high horses.....
From the responses I have read it is apparent that people do pay attention to what they have read. I would suggest that If one doesn't want one's words to be misinterpreted, one needs to be more precise with one's language.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Lee9710 View Post
I never said GM had anything to do with the mark ups. I just said to expect them. I haven't been all negative on the car. Most of the people onthis thread are just quick to attack anyone with any idea different than their own. Basically if you go against the grain here, you get all your words twisted around by people that obviously don't pay attention to what they have read. Fully loaded ZL1 IMO will be right at 60k. A lesser loaded one around 55k. Just an opinion people, don't get so d**n defensive all the time. This forum is for opinions as well as fact. Get off your high horses.....
It might be helpful to mention that you're talking about a fully loaded car when everybody else is talking about starting MSRP ...
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:31 PM   #235
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It will barely beat one as it is so GM has some area to improve on in the following years. I'm thinking it will be at least 60k and that is too much for a Camaro. What ever happened to working mans sports car? Now you might as well get a Z06 for these prices. A slightly used one where I am is in the 47k range. I can't believe a Camaro will be this expensive......
Not being negative huh? It's not even out and performance figures haven't even been posted, but somehow you know it's barely going to beat the GT500? Enough already. I don't need you to enlighten me on how poorly ZL1 will perform or how outrageously expensive it will be. I'll draw my own conclusions - thanks.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:40 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Wondering View Post
Is the 11.7 in your sig your best run? I'd assume you'd have your best in your sig,but in another post you said your car ran low 10's.

What are the current #'s on your car?

Edit: Note to self.....read all of thread before asking questions. Your car sounds like a beast,enjoy it. Where do you run? I'm from NC too & get out to the track pretty often.
I haven't posted on here in a long time. My best run ended up being an 11.5 until I did a motor swap and cam about a week ago. I'm over here in Fayetteville. Haven't changed the sig yet. I'm sorry to all about the price misunderstanding.......I was talking fully loaded. And as far as barely beating a GT500, I was just saying that in order to have somewhere to improve upon, I don't think GM will just come right out and demolish it on the first production. Not because they can't, but rather because they will need room to grow over the next few model years. But I did the 418 stroker motor with all the goodies with cam and kept my supercharger. She is one hell of a ride. Wasn't trying to come off negative......sorry to all.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:30 PM   #237
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I haven't posted on here in a long time. My best run ended up being an 11.5 until I did a motor swap and cam about a week ago. I'm over here in Fayetteville. Haven't changed the sig yet. I'm sorry to all about the price misunderstanding.......I was talking fully loaded. And as far as barely beating a GT500, I was just saying that in order to have somewhere to improve upon, I don't think GM will just come right out and demolish it on the first production. Not because they can't, but rather because they will need room to grow over the next few model years. But I did the 418 stroker motor with all the goodies with cam and kept my supercharger. She is one hell of a ride. Wasn't trying to come off negative......sorry to all.
Though I have nothing but speculation (like anyone on either side of this frame of thought), but I have to respectfully disagree. I'm not sure enough people understand the ramifications of the sum of all the features and parts that ZL1 will embrace.

First - there's the power. Okay - this is where, if anywhere, I would have any worry or concern about performance. While I think ZL1 might get up to about 580 horsepower, I'm not sure if that's enough staying power to keep fighting off the GT500 until the end of it's run for this generation. I don't know if I believe reports of 620 horsepower, however, I believe replacing the current Eaton with the newer 2300, it would be pretty easy to get to 600. Would I care if there was a 20 horsepower disparity? No - considering the following. Besides, I'll be pushing my warranty anyways, lol.

Next - the chassis. New generation Electric Power Steering (EPS) and next generation Magnetic Ride (MR) suspension systems, in addition to the newly announced Performance Traction Management (PTM). While the GT500 already posesses this feature, EPS would impart ZL1 with similar tunability from the engineers to maximized feel and handling. The MR is something the competition doesn't have and allows track settings for all-out fast times and a touring-type ride for on your way home. Look how effective this feature is on GM's other two top rides: ZR1 and CTS-V. They pretty much OWN nearly all cars in their respective segments and price ranges. The closest car to ZR1 is the GTR if I understand correctly and the improvements to the '12 ZR1 should pretty much keep it at bay and only the Panamera is faster around the 'Ring than CTS-V, and it's something like nearly twice as much money. PTM is another feature on ZL1 that will make the most of the power available from ZL1's LSA. This is a reason I'm not too worried about the GT500. These three systems, working together, are going to be quite formidable for any car in ZL1's price point.

Furthermore - powertrain. While ZL1 may be giving up in 4-digit power potential with it's LSA, OEM power should be great. In addition, from the balancer back, it's going to be built to take the abuse. While not many details have been confirmed by GM, recently, we've seen a tiny bit of the cast iron differential case on ZL1. Comparing it's relative size to respective SS differential cases, it's reasonable to extrapolate that it's ring and pinion are going to be seriously strong. While there's no confirmation on the exact size, members have stated it's a 14-bolt ring and pinion, which in truck terms, meant either a 9.5" or 10.5" ring gear. For those that don't know, those were used in 3/4 and 1-ton pickup trucks. There's no confirmation, but I think the extrapolation is sound. In addition, we've seen one axle shaft and a member reported it was the "small" one. It's spline count wasn't announced, but it looks probably in the neighborhood of the low-to-mid 30s, which is highly desirable for strength.

Finally - aerodynamics, brakes, and tires. GM's stated a deliberate effort was made to tune aerodynamics and DOWNFORCE for ZL1. What this will translate to, is using more of that LSA power around and down the track or the strip. Pushing that car down will impart more tire friction and result in higher grip from the new Generation II F1s. The are still working with Goodyear (from what I've gathered) and a lighter and wider wheel and tire package (from SS) will impart greater available traction and allow to carry the speed into and out of the corners more effective. The 6-piston front calipers, along with the 0.5" larger rotors will bleed the heat off better and stave off brake fade more effectively.

GM's stated many times that they don't want to be equal to the competition - they want to dominate. With the improvements to the '12 V6s, the upgrades for SS, and the introduction of ZL1, I believe they are completely serious. For a person to have an opinion otherwise on a CAMARO website confuses me, so I could've just wasted the last half hour with all the crap I posted above. Take it or leave it. I'll spend my money where I like, like everyone else. Just don't come into this Section, with the attitude it seemed like you had, and not expect some flames.

Over-and-out.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:39 PM   #238
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:41 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Though I have nothing but speculation (like anyone on either side of this frame of thought), but I have to respectfully disagree. I'm not sure enough people understand the ramifications of the sum of all the features and parts that ZL1 will embrace.

First - there's the power. Okay - this is where, if anywhere, I would have any worry or concern about performance. While I think ZL1 might get up to about 580 horsepower, I'm not sure if that's enough staying power to keep fighting off the GT500 until the end of it's run for this generation. I don't know if I believe reports of 620 horsepower, however, I believe replacing the current Eaton with the newer 2300, it would be pretty easy to get to 600. Would I care if there was a 20 horsepower disparity? No - considering the following. Besides, I'll be pushing my warranty anyways, lol.

Next - the chassis. New generation Electric Power Steering (EPS) and next generation Magnetic Ride (MR) suspension systems, in addition to the newly announced Performance Traction Management (PTM). While the GT500 already posesses this feature, EPS would impart ZL1 with similar tunability from the engineers to maximized feel and handling. The MR is something the competition doesn't have and allows track settings for all-out fast times and a touring-type ride for on your way home. Look how effective this feature is on GM's other two top rides: ZR1 and CTS-V. They pretty much OWN nearly all cars in their respective segments and price ranges. The closest car to ZR1 is the GTR if I understand correctly and the improvements to the '12 ZR1 should pretty much keep it at bay and only the Panamera is faster around the 'Ring than CTS-V, and it's something like nearly twice as much money. PTM is another feature on ZL1 that will make the most of the power available from ZL1's LSA. This is a reason I'm not too worried about the GT500. These three systems, working together, are going to be quite formidable for any car in ZL1's price point.

Furthermore - powertrain. While ZL1 may be giving up in 4-digit power potential with it's LSA, OEM power should be great. In addition, from the balancer back, it's going to be built to take the abuse. While not many details have been confirmed by GM, recently, we've seen a tiny bit of the cast iron differential case on ZL1. Comparing it's relative size to respective SS differential cases, it's reasonable to extrapolate that it's ring and pinion are going to be seriously strong. While there's no confirmation on the exact size, members have stated it's a 14-bolt ring and pinion, which in truck terms, meant either a 9.5" or 10.5" ring gear. For those that don't know, those were used in 3/4 and 1-ton pickup trucks. There's no confirmation, but I think the extrapolation is sound. In addition, we've seen one axle shaft and a member reported it was the "small" one. It's spline count wasn't announced, but it looks probably in the neighborhood of the low-to-mid 30s, which is highly desirable for strength.

Finally - aerodynamics, brakes, and tires. GM's stated a deliberate effort was made to tune aerodynamics and DOWNFORCE for ZL1. What this will translate to, is using more of that LSA power around and down the track or the strip. Pushing that car down will impart more tire friction and result in higher grip from the new Generation II F1s. The are still working with Goodyear (from what I've gathered) and a lighter and wider wheel and tire package (from SS) will impart greater available traction and allow to carry the speed into and out of the corners more effective. The 6-piston front calipers, along with the 0.5" larger rotors will bleed the heat off better and stave off brake fade more effectively.

GM's stated many times that they don't want to be equal to the competition - they want to dominate. With the improvements to the '12 V6s, the upgrades for SS, and the introduction of ZL1, I believe they are completely serious. For a person to have an opinion otherwise on a CAMARO website confuses me, so I could've just wasted the last half hour with all the crap I posted above. Take it or leave it. I'll spend my money where I like, like everyone else. Just don't come into this Section, with the attitude it seemed like you had, and not expect some flames.

Over-and-out.
Wasted? Noo...

I quite enjoyed reading that post! More than I have in a very long time!

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Old 06-14-2011, 10:25 PM   #240
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Great post, radz28! Well said sir.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:01 PM   #241
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Thumbs up 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Gets Optional Six-Speed Automatic Transmission

Link to this article in Motor Trend appeared on the Camaro Facebook page this morning:

http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-chevr...ion-86545.html

Buyers who opt for the high-performance 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 will now have a choice between automatic and manual transmissions. Though the company had previously said it would only come with a true manual transmission, Chevrolet says that high customer demand means the ZL1 is also being offered with an optional six-speed automatic.

Chevrolet Camaro spokesman David Caldwell told us that the company had been considering offering the ZL1 with an automatic transmission for some time, and once customer feedback indicated there was a strong interest in such an option, the company made the decision to develop the transmission. Caldwell said “the majority” of Camaros are sold with automatics.
The ZL1’s automatic will be a six-speed unit with manual shift controls. It’s a unique transmission that is designed for the high power and torque loads of the ZL1’s engine, but Caldwell told us the design is a “sister” to the automatics employed by the Chevrolet Corvette and Cadillac CTS-V.
We also learned that the Camaro ZL1 will score Performance Traction Management, which debuted on the Corvette ZR1 and can now be optioned on the Corvette Z06. PTM is an extension of traction control that modulates engine torque to maintain maximum grip and acceleration when cornering.
The 2012 Camaro ZL1 bowed at the Chicago auto show earlier this year, with a supercharged 6.2-liter LSA V-8 engine under the hood, and output ratings of 550 hp and 550 lb-ft of torque. Those could change before the car reaches production, though, as Chevrolet previously said it was still fine-tuning the engine’s performance. The current Camaro SS boats 426 hp and 420 lb-ft from a normally aspirated 6.2-liter V-8.
To keep the ZL1 on the road and out of ditches, it rides on lightweight 20-inch wheels, has upgraded brakes (14.6-inch discs front, 14.4-inch discs rear), and Magnetic Ride Control suspension. The ZL1 wears a chiseled new look thanks to a new front fascia and rear diffuser, and trims weight with a hood made from aluminum and carbon fiber.
Expect the gutsy Camaro ZL1 to go on sale around February 2012.
Source: Chevrolet


Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-chevr...#ixzz1PMRgMcKc
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:17 PM   #242
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We knew before Motor Trend...hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:25 PM   #243
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GREAT

We are waiting to produce the car in feb2012

and also waiting for the price that the ZL1 will be on
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:44 PM   #244
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I like this part the best and thought the others here who voted for it would appreciate it:
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Chevrolet Camaro spokesman David Caldwell told us that the company had been considering offering the ZL1 with an automatic transmission for some time, and once customer feedback indicated there was a strong interest in such an option, the company made the decision to develop the transmission. Caldwell said “the majority” of Camaros are sold with automatics.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Wasted? Noo...

I quite enjoyed reading that post!

I agree! GREAT Post!
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:12 PM   #246
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Uber-Freakin' Well Said, radZ28


As Inigo Montoya said in Princess Bride, "So, let me 'splain. No, there's too much. Let me sum up. "
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #247
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Can't wait to see what the autos run at the track!
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:24 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Addicts View Post
Can't wait to see what the autos run at the track!
I'm hoping it will be in the 12.0 range or maybe into the high 11s.......that will put a bad taste in Shelby owners mouths...lol
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:27 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Addicts View Post
Can't wait to see what the autos run at the track!
If its at all like the CTS-V, it should be quicker than the manuals
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #250
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I think this will be helpful as a reference.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop...qF_Xzjl4&gl=US


Based on the numbers in this vid, how much power and weight would the Z need to gain/lose to get into the sub 3 sec 0 to 60 and sub 12 sec 1/4 mile?
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