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Old 03-20-2009, 10:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
You may need to add me to the list of "defectors". I went to a dealer and had a lengthy discussion. They didn't seem well informed on getting one. I gave it a lot of thought..... GM is several years late on the muscle car entry. The car got so heavy they had to make the hood out of aluminum. The engine compartment got so crowded they had to put the battery in the trunk. And the "packages" and tire sizes! What were they thinking? Why so many different sizes and why the ones they selected? Did they look at how much those tires cost to replace? To get an SS you get two different sized tire sizes and can't even rotate them. Want the spoiler on the V6? If so, it's $1450 because you have to take a bunch of other stuff that you may or may not want. Don't want the spoiler on the V8? Too bad - you're taking it anyway. I have driven the chevy trucks with the VCM and don't want anything to do with that - thus no V8 if I want my wife to drive the car (she can't drive a manual tranny). So for this 51 year old man who was REALLY looking forward to the camaro - a camaro that I believe looks better than those of the 60s - I think I'm going to pass. As much as I don't want to do it, it's probably going to be another import. Sorry. I really did want one, but not like this.

Hey Lenny, welcome to the forums!!

I totally understand your frustrations with the salesmen not knowing much, but is that a good enough reason to turn away. Heck, my dealer was deer in headlights when I went in and said I wanted to pre order one etc. But I got online and joined this forum and became informed. What I found was this car was by far the best thing out there.

If you dont want to pay for the expensive wheel upgrades dont buy them, by aftermarket stuff, if you dot want to pay RS upgrade DONT, just buy after market stuff INDIVIDUALLY!

What you said is hard to understand your reasoning, maybe its just me but what your saying is equivalent to saying you dont want to buy that race horse because of the horse shoes its got on it!

Anyway, hope you change your mind. If not enjoy your import and allow us to enjoy our Camaros.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #16
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I don't know if they're any way to say this that doesn't sound disrespectful (it's not how i want to sound) , but i think you're maybe just a bit too old fashioned for this car.
- They're only a year behind Dodge and Ford never quit the segment so several years late is a bit of an exaggeration.
- There's not much wiggle room weight wise with the Zeta platform, the two lightest cars are the camaro and g8, and making a new platform just for this car was out of the question for a cash strapped company.
- I may be wrong but i assumed the reason the battery was in the trunk was for weight distribution. And I don't see how it makes any difference to us, the consumer.
- As far as the tires go it's common place for sports cars to have different sized front and rear tires. Wider in back for grip/traction skinnier up front to be able to turn without rubbing the inside of the fender well. And i don't see what the problem is with the price to replace them, the tires for my old Regal were $125 a piece these are about $136-$140.
- Yeah the spoiler thing is a bit annoying but if you really do or don't want it you can change it yourself.
- VCM? I'll assume you meant AFM and that you can tune it out. Probably cost you less that $200.

I mean i really don't see the big deal about any of your gripes with the exception of the weight and spoiler. I could understand if you didn't like the interior layout. Or the trunk opening was too small. Or you though it looked like poo. But for the price this is a hell of a car. I just don't get how someone would say, "i didn't get the car cause battery is in the back. " "the hood is aluminum" "the tire and wheel packages are different from what i'm used to" etc.
I don't see it as disrespectful at all. Maybe old-fashioned and maybe just have a different set of values when it comes to buying a car or spending my money. If it were not for the issues I mentioned (issues that are important to me, but perhaps not to others) I would buy a camaro for myself. I owned an 07 GT mustang and it was a great car. I almost bought a shelby last year, but bought a cts instead - at the request of the misses. My son wants a hyundai genesis coupe - although I am particular about how I spend my money and it hurts to the bone to buy a hyundai, I will honor his wants. But that is why there are so many brands - we all have different tastes. I wish the camaro enthusiasts lots of luck. I owned a 327/250 hp camaro a long time ago and would give my cts for it in a heartbeat.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:50 PM   #17
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CTS-V tires/wheels http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/...6%20Suspension

Tires

Front: P255/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport 2

Rear: P285/35ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport 2



Wheels

Aluminum alloy, 5-lug, painted (polished optional)

Front: 19 x 9-in.

Rear: 19 x 9.5-in.
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You take a shit on everything fun and good on this forum.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by manimsoblack View Post
CTS-V tires/wheels http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/...6%20Suspension

Tires

Front: P255/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport 2

Rear: P285/35ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport 2



Wheels

Aluminum alloy, 5-lug, painted (polished optional)

Front: 19 x 9-in.

Rear: 19 x 9.5-in.

EXACTLY! This has been a sore point of discussion between my wife and myself since day one of the cts!
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:08 PM   #19
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EXACTLY! This has been a sore point of discussion between my wife and myself since day one of the cts!
i'm just lost. That's normal for high performance cars.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
EXACTLY! This has been a sore point of discussion between my wife and myself since day one of the cts!
I'm sure somebody will buy your wheels off you so you can't get different ones - OR you might be able to talk the dealer into swapping your back set for a front set.

Personally, I understand where you're coming from. My tires will be the same all around, so I can rotate them. I don't see it as a reason to not buy the car though.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:09 PM   #21
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Do you guys find it funny, that when ever someone gets hold of a v6 RS, they suddenly just call it an RS? Like its kind of a v6 thing only? I wonder what they would say with an SS/RS
Ijust thought it was funny
I saw this coming from the very beginning. People that don't know much about this car will constantly be refering to the V6 as an RS, whether or not it has the package, and will not realize that an SS can also be an RS.

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i'm just lost. That's normal for high performance cars.
+1, standard procedure for all serious performance cars, and has been that way for at least 15yrs.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:22 PM   #22
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Who joins a Camaro site just to bash the car and then tell everyone he's going to buy an import?
A troll....or a jerk...take your pick. I never have and never will visit another car forum to make demeaning comments. Waste of time.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:46 PM   #23
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I don't post much on this forum, but I read it all the time. There are a large number of people on this forum who get their panties in a bunch when someone mentions something slightly negative about the new Camaro. I'm really getting tired of everyone bashing someone that has a disenting view. Some of you guys need to lay off the Kool Aide. You're drinking way too much. This is coming from a 54 year old guy who has owned more than a view F bods.
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
Who joins a camaro site to bash a car? Actually, it wasn't like that at all. I've been following these threads for some time. I got an email directing me here and in the very first thread it says:
By Chevrolet's admission, the new Camaro must do more than compete with so-called pony cars--a.k.a Ford's Mustang and Dodge's Challenger. It must reach past aging muscle car enthusiasts to thrive. Chevrolet insists it will do that by chasing buyers who might otherwise choose a Honda Civic Si, a Scion tC or even a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. But most of that work must be done by the Camaro LS and LT.

I had my heart set on purchasing two camaros - one for my son and one for myself. He is in his 20s and wants a ricer - fine... I was just responding to the very first entry here. For someone in his 20s or 30s I'm sure they would purchase this on emotion. For someone in his 50s, I was purchasing for an entirely different reason. I was looking for a well-built retro looking car. I simply told you why I have decided not to buy one. Money is not an issue as I am financially retired. For me, it was a matter of what I would call 50ish male common sense. I looked at the thought process that went into the car and was not impressed. I have owned a lot of cars and I don't care who makes them or where they're made (camaro is assembled in canada and I think many of the engines are made in Mexico). But to see the weight problem, the tire issues (that had to be made by a committee as no one person could be that stupid), the battery location, modifying the cylinders in the V8 to add VCM capabilities, no spare tire... the list was just too long for me to overlook. For those who do purchase the vehicle, I wish them nothing but the best. I own a CTS with the 3.6 and I love it. I wish it had the additional horsepower of the camaro.
I dont think there is anything wrong with making a informed purchase. Using what you know instead of emotion is a good thing. This is part of why i am getting a V6 instead of V8 the 6 is better for me, but my emotion wants an 8. That being said remember something about the weight of the car, has to do with the new safety standards coming into play in a few years and cars will have to be safer= more metal=more weight. There are alot of things that manipulate the auto industry CAFE etc. Just remember GM didnt have to make the Camaro again, they chose to and there will be problems with any car and especially one we all love. So good luck on your import, and the man has every right to complain etc, thats why we are on this forum, to talk about how we feel good or bad. For me I cant wait to have my Camaro.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:05 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
You may need to add me to the list of "defectors". I went to a dealer and had a lengthy discussion. They didn't seem well informed on getting one. I gave it a lot of thought..... GM is several years late on the muscle car entry. The car got so heavy they had to make the hood out of aluminum. The engine compartment got so crowded they had to put the battery in the trunk. And the "packages" and tire sizes! What were they thinking? Why so many different sizes and why the ones they selected? Did they look at how much those tires cost to replace? To get an SS you get two different sized tire sizes and can't even rotate them. Want the spoiler on the V6? If so, it's $1450 because you have to take a bunch of other stuff that you may or may not want. Don't want the spoiler on the V8? Too bad - you're taking it anyway. I have driven the chevy trucks with the VCM and don't want anything to do with that - thus no V8 if I want my wife to drive the car (she can't drive a manual tranny). So for this 51 year old man who was REALLY looking forward to the camaro - a camaro that I believe looks better than those of the 60s - I think I'm going to pass. As much as I don't want to do it, it's probably going to be another import. Sorry. I really did want one, but not like this.
I hope you find something you like. I agree on the dealer issue, it's a pet peeve of mine when a dealer doesn't know their product. I tend to research the hell out of major purchases so I get driven nuts alot.

I think Chevy sees the different size tires as a feature-not a committee decision. I would bet someone actually bucked a committee to do this because it's more expensive. A lot of people really like that but I can see your point as well. As far as the VCM- that's the active cylinder cutoff for fuel right? That I believe you are simply stuck with in America today. They've got to get those corporate mileage estimates up while still meeting the consumer demand for ~400hp engines. That's a rock and a hard place.

I hope you can find an American car that you still like and fills the bill for you. I know you said you don't care where it's from, and I'm not normally overly jingoistic-but there are some really good American products out there right now.


**edit: I just double checked something, the Challenger R/T in manual only does not have the ACM and offset tires. The automatic does have the ACM. So if you don't mind a manual, there's an alternative.

Last edited by MrIcky; 03-26-2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ91 View Post
Do you guys find it funny, that when ever someone gets hold of a v6 RS, they suddenly just call it an RS? Like its kind of a v6 thing only? I wonder what they would say with an SS/RS
Ijust thought it was funny
Sadly, at least one of the salesmen at my nearest Chevy dealer is one of those folks. I asked him what kind of pricing they were going to offer on Camaros, and he asked me "V8 or RS?"

Fortunately I know there's at least one guy there who does know about the car, so I'll be going to him instead.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:18 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
Who joins a camaro site to bash a car? Actually, it wasn't like that at all. I've been following these threads for some time. I got an email directing me here and in the very first thread it says:
By Chevrolet's admission, the new Camaro must do more than compete with so-called pony cars--a.k.a Ford's Mustang and Dodge's Challenger. It must reach past aging muscle car enthusiasts to thrive. Chevrolet insists it will do that by chasing buyers who might otherwise choose a Honda Civic Si, a Scion tC or even a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. But most of that work must be done by the Camaro LS and LT.

I had my heart set on purchasing two camaros - one for my son and one for myself. He is in his 20s and wants a ricer - fine... I was just responding to the very first entry here. For someone in his 20s or 30s I'm sure they would purchase this on emotion. For someone in his 50s, I was purchasing for an entirely different reason. I was looking for a well-built retro looking car. I simply told you why I have decided not to buy one. Money is not an issue as I am financially retired. For me, it was a matter of what I would call 50ish male common sense. I looked at the thought process that went into the car and was not impressed. I have owned a lot of cars and I don't care who makes them or where they're made (camaro is assembled in canada and I think many of the engines are made in Mexico). But to see the weight problem, the tire issues (that had to be made by a committee as no one person could be that stupid), the battery location, modifying the cylinders in the V8 to add VCM capabilities, no spare tire... the list was just too long for me to overlook. For those who do purchase the vehicle, I wish them nothing but the best. I own a CTS with the 3.6 and I love it. I wish it had the additional horsepower of the camaro.
WELCOME to the site, and I hope you stay (and change your mind about the new Camaro )

I'm not sure I understand why you dislike some of the things you listed in your first post. There's nothing that could've been done with the weight, except use exotic materials (i.e. titanium, magnesium, carbon fiber, etc.) and that would've driven up cost past the demographic it is my understanding GM is trying to attract with this car. Why is the battery in the trunk a bad thing? It's better for weight distribution, and why is it a problem that there needs to be more room in the engine compartment? The modifications the the AFM are mostly limited to the valvetrain (mostly the cam, lifters, lifter valley) and PCM - what's wrong with that? It can be tuned out, but why would one want that unless it makes something else work less efficient? I can see the spare tire-thing though; that fix-a-flat's onyl going to get you so far, LOL. I love the idea on an aluminum hood, especially since the weight is the way it is.

All I know is they're you reasons, and hey, you'd be paying for the car, and if you're not happy with it, why have it? It's just not right for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallysport View Post
A troll....or a jerk...take your pick. I never have and never will visit another car forum to make demeaning comments. Waste of time.
Keep comments respectful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVThis View Post
I don't post much on this forum, but I read it all the time. There are a large number of people on this forum who get their panties in a bunch when someone mentions something slightly negative about the new Camaro. I'm really getting tired of everyone bashing someone that has a disenting view. Some of you guys need to lay off the Kool Aide. You're drinking way too much. This is coming from a 54 year old guy who has owned more than a view F bods.
You know, although I can agree with some points to a degree, this IS a Camaro site, and I think the majority of people here really like it and I don't think it's unexpected to get some of these reactions. I can see the point about only posting for the first time to show gripes or dislikes about the car and what that looks like, but this community needs to get back to finding mutual respect for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miamimatt View Post
I dont think there is anything wrong with making a informed purchase. Using what you know instead of emotion is a good thing. This is part of why i am getting a V6 instead of V8 the 6 is better for me, but my emotion wants an 8. That being said remember something about the weight of the car, has to do with the new safety standards coming into play in a few years and cars will have to be safer= more metal=more weight. There are alot of things that manipulate the auto industry CAFE etc. Just remember GM didnt have to make the Camaro again, they chose to and there will be problems with any car and especially one we all love. So good luck on your import, and the man has every right to complain etc, thats why we are on this forum, to talk about how we feel good or bad. For me I cant wait to have my Camaro.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:28 AM   #28
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I don't see it as disrespectful at all. Maybe old-fashioned and maybe just have a different set of values when it comes to buying a car or spending my money. If it were not for the issues I mentioned (issues that are important to me, but perhaps not to others) I would buy a camaro for myself. I owned an 07 GT mustang and it was a great car. I almost bought a shelby last year, but bought a cts instead - at the request of the misses. My son wants a hyundai genesis coupe - although I am particular about how I spend my money and it hurts to the bone to buy a hyundai, I will honor his wants. But that is why there are so many brands - we all have different tastes. I wish the camaro enthusiasts lots of luck. I owned a 327/250 hp camaro a long time ago and would give my cts for it in a heartbeat.

Hey Dad I'm your long lost son. I want the camaro, Black 2SS RS
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