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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 03-20-2009, 12:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by New2010CamaroLover View Post
Wow this thread gives me a headache... How about shift when it feels right, that's generally what most peopledo anyways cuz it's too difficult to look down while racing.
that's why you practice the shifts while looking down, learning what each shift sounds like. i shift at a different point for just about every gear in my truck, but i rarely look at the tach anymore because i learned what each rpm sounds like

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Is it wrong that I actually understood that equation?


ugh. As far as I know I'm done with math classes and damn happy about it.
i understood it & i ain't had a math class since high school!

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I LOVE CARS!!!
I HATE MATH!!! PLZ DON'T PUT THEM TOGETHER !!! LOL
driving is based on math (especially racing)... sorry bud!

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And while this is a fine way to drive, its not the most efficient. The problem is that the gear your in doesn't give a hoot what the gear ratio will be after you shift - feel won't change based on the next gear, but will stay the same for every gear. So while you can feel when the engine wants to shift, you have to do the math and research to know when the transmission wants to shift.
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:02 PM   #27
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Using a GTECH, I was able to gain 2mph at the track by changing my shiftpoint ~200 rpm. The differences between shift points between different gears shouldn't be that much, no more than 150 rpm. Obviously, the gearing of each gear will make a difference.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:38 PM   #28
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driving is based on math (especially racing)... sorry bud!
Don't remind me lol i know math has almost everything to do with cars & driving but i'll admit that was just too much for me lol,
i wish i knew someone with a manual to practice on but w/e
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:32 PM   #29
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Don't remind me lol i know math has almost everything to do with cars & driving but i'll admit that was just too much for me lol,
i wish i knew someone with a manual to practice on but w/e
you could use mine, but that'd be quite a drive...

ps - i like that pic


happens to me all the time
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:36 PM   #30
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since we are talking bout manual and when to shift...i got a question a lil off topic...ok im getting my camaro stick but dont really have any experience with manual...ive drove it before in my friends cars...an old volvo 740(i think) turbo, a 95 civic bubble back, and his dads mini cooper S...the hardest part is getting it into first and taking off...although im passed that point...im just nervous as to when im in traffic but wuteva thats not my question...my question is how the hell do people do burn outs? do they use their left for for the clutch and right foot to hold the brake and give gas? then put the clutch foot on the brake and then move the right foot fully to the gas? that sounds like it would work to me...and the only possible way...but the real question is, how do people do burn out and switch gears while burning out? are they doing a heal toe technique and just holding the gas down through shifts?
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:53 PM   #31
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since we are talking bout manual and when to shift...i got a question a lil off topic...ok im getting my camaro stick but dont really have any experience with manual...ive drove it before in my friends cars...an old volvo 740(i think) turbo, a 95 civic bubble back, and his dads mini cooper S...the hardest part is getting it into first and taking off...although im passed that point...im just nervous as to when im in traffic but wuteva thats not my question...my question is how the hell do people do burn outs? do they use their left for for the clutch and right foot to hold the brake and give gas? then put the clutch foot on the brake and then move the right foot fully to the gas? that sounds like it would work to me...and the only possible way...but the real question is, how do people do burn out and switch gears while burning out? are they doing a heal toe technique and just holding the gas down through shifts?
i've never personally done it, but the heel-toe makes perfect sense to use on shifts, but for just first gear, droppin the clutch & gettin the brake with the left will work
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:13 PM   #32
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line lock helps but you dont need it.

yes, just spin the tires and use your clutch foot to hold the brakes. not that hard. and to shift, let go of the brake, shift, then hold the brake again with the clutch foot. not that hard either, the tires should be spinning fast enough at that point to where it doesn't creep forward much if at all.

burnouts in the camaro might be rougher on the engine though with those huge brakes in the back creating a heavy load on the driveline.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:24 PM   #33
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line lock helps but you dont need it.

yes, just spin the tires and use your clutch foot to hold the brakes. not that hard. and to shift, let go of the brake, shift, then hold the brake again with the clutch foot. not that hard either, the tires should be spinning fast enough at that point to where it doesn't creep forward much if at all.

burnouts in the camaro might be rougher on the engine though with those huge brakes in the back creating a heavy load on the driveline.
someone mentioned earlier that you only use 20% brake pressure in the rear
honest to God NEVER KNEW THAT !! , but thats kool
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:00 AM   #34
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someone mentioned earlier that you only use 20% brake pressure in the rear
honest to God NEVER KNEW THAT !! , but thats kool
basically, you hold the brake down the least amount possible while keeping the car from moving forward.

it still puts a pretty good strain on the whole driveline (rear end, clutch, transmission and engine). Not to mention, the brakes take a pretty good beating (AND TIRES!).
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:02 AM   #35
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basically, you hold the brake down the least amount possible while keeping the car from moving forward.

it still puts a pretty good strain on the whole driveline (rear end, clutch, transmission and engine). Not to mention, the brakes take a pretty good beating (AND TIRES!).
what you talkin 'bout, willis? burnouts don't do jack to the tires!
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
basically, you hold the brake down the least amount possible while keeping the car from moving forward.

it still puts a pretty good strain on the whole driveline (rear end, clutch, transmission and engine). Not to mention, the brakes take a pretty good beating (AND TIRES!).
This is also a good benefit of a line lock. You can set it up to where only the front brakes are engaged, and the rear brakes let go. That way you aren't putting more stress on the drivetrain or the rear brakes. I'll personally be setting up a line lock before I do any (stationary) burnouts.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:04 AM   #37
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i've never personally done it, but the heel-toe makes perfect sense to use on shifts, but for just first gear, droppin the clutch & gettin the brake with the left will work
nah i meant...holding the break and giving gas with your right foot...dump the clutch with your left and after u got the wheels spinning place your left foot on the brake since you dont need it on the clutch anymore and then use your right foot only for the gas

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line lock helps but you dont need it.

yes, just spin the tires and use your clutch foot to hold the brakes. not that hard. and to shift, let go of the brake, shift, then hold the brake again with the clutch foot. not that hard either, the tires should be spinning fast enough at that point to where it doesn't creep forward much if at all.

burnouts in the camaro might be rougher on the engine though with those huge brakes in the back creating a heavy load on the driveline.
but when you shift do you just hold the gas down? if u let go for even a sec the wheels will stop spinning no?
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:16 AM   #38
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...but when you shift do you just fold the gas down? if u let go for even a sec the wheels will stop spinning no?
letting the brake go for a second to hit the clutch is fine. so long as you keep giving it gas, you're breaking so much traction, you won't go anywhere. if you let off the gas, the wheels will stop.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:37 PM   #39
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thats what i thought....but what im asking is...do you hold the gas down through the shift? that seems like it would f*** up the car, no?
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:56 PM   #40
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thats what i thought....but what im asking is...do you hold the gas down through the shift? that seems like it would f*** up the car, no?
well, you don't need to be anywhere near WOT to be spinning the tires. Even if your one of those rookies bouncing off the rev limiter, you still shouldn't be going WOT.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:07 PM   #41
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Back to the OP...I imagine the difference between the red and the red hash marked is... Warrantee and no warrante repair lol
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:29 PM   #42
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long story short...

horsepower is horsepower is horsepower as is torque is torque is torque

426hp in 1st is still 426hp in 6th. it just feels different. when I race I will continue to shift to every gear at 6000rpms no matter what all yall say. Therefore I highly recommend you guys to shift your ls3 cars at 6500, but get good at shifting first

If you want to race me mr zebra I live in La Vergne I'd love to race your short shifting ass jk Do you have a car you run? I plan on going to the nashvlle spr spdway next month. I need to get to beechbend 1/4 mile too since I've never run one
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:57 AM   #43
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someone mentioned earlier that you only use 20% brake pressure in the rear
honest to God NEVER KNEW THAT !! , but thats kool
the reason why is because if there was much more every time you hit the breaks the rear tires would lock up and cause you to slide a lil because of the weight transfer from back to front when breaking.
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #44
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...If you want to race me mr zebra I live in La Vergne I'd love to race your short shifting ass jk Do you have a car you run? I plan on going to the nashvlle spr spdway next month. I need to get to beechbend 1/4 mile too since I've never run one
if only i had something to run... well something serious to run, anyway. even though the 4.3's impressed me with what it can do with a 4500lb truck, it's all i got & sure ain't a racer.

by the way... with your T56, it's cool to shift at the same RPMs because the gears are pretty evenly spaced. my NV3500 has some pretty drastic changes between my gears. so like i said, it depends on the transmission you're using.

here's a graph showing the ratio differences during a shift with each of our vehicles
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:19 PM   #45
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okay im a double major in psysics/ and math for commerce(stats)

and that sigma law formula... was integral calculus and thus rightfully so should be the prime example for the measuring of distance as space under the graph of acceleration per gear however statisically speaking each gear ratio will have a different "torque thrust" as i call it at each different rpm ... i once watched a video of some legendary japenese driver who was driving an sti through a course and was didnt shift where he was supposed to and ended up getting lower times... now for the quarter mile example for the camaro if somebody could please provide me with the numbers of hp tq, on a dyno at each gear( yes each gear most dynos are tested on 3rd gear) i can happily input the numbers for you... keep in mind that the most important variables are tire size and rolling diameter... wheel weight with tire, vehicle weight, gearing 1,2,3,4... rear end, and engine torque at specific range dealing between epsilon and delta domain
then we can use integral calc to calculate the maximum surplus ...
if it be at 6500 for this output or 6000 for that output... but i need the numbers
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:22 PM   #46
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in return to the arguement... sometimes higher hp equate lower track times because of this... example a cone air filter for my 350z increased the hp yes... but dropped off low end torque completly and i was shifting mainly at 6600 before the filter i achieved the best times with the cone filter shifting at 6100
and in total the filter made alot of useless noise because the times were a couple ticks slower
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #47
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somebody get me a dyno chart of the first 4 gears and ill be able to tell you the exact numbers using the simple domain of integration fomula and etching graphs to formulate the derivitives and equate true area we can maximize that area minusing the total next gear surplus from our original form...
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:29 PM   #48
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hah and all my class mates said... whos ever going to use this in everday... are idiots!!!
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:41 AM   #49
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hah and all my class mates said... whos ever going to use this in everday... are idiots!!!
yeah! come on! math is overrated!!
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