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Old 11-10-2011, 09:24 AM   #51
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:24 AM   #52
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:33 AM   #53
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I was watching the video and noticed this can, does anyone have any idea as to what it is (catch can, test equipment?).

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Old 11-10-2011, 09:42 AM   #54
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Firmly Planted: Camaro ZL1 Designed for Downforce

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us.../1101_zl1_aero

DETROIT – With supercar levels of performance and technology, the 580-horsepower (432-kW) Camaro ZL1 can reach 170 mph (273 km/h) on the famed Nürburgring’s Nordschleife course in Germany. To maintain stability and steering response at that speed, the ZL1 features an aerodynamic design that generates downforce to press the tires against the track.
“The Camaro ZL1 lapped the Nürburgring in an incredible 7:41.27 seconds, which would not have been possible without work of our aerodynamics team,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. “The design of the ZL1 creates downforce like a race car, harnessing air pressure to press the tires against the track for extra grip and control at high speeds.”
Most production cars are designed with some lift at speed slip through the air for improved fuel economy. The Camaro LS and Camaro SS are no exceptions, enabling the Camaro LS to deliver 323 horsepower (241 kW) and up to 30 mpg on the highway.
Design for high-speed track capability takes in other considerations.
For the ZL1 – the fastest Camaro ever – the aerodynamics team set out to generate downforce for improved handing at speed while minimizing the amount of increased drag that could reduce fuel economy and the vehicle’s top speed. With the computer-assisted design recommendations, engineers tested full-scale clay models and full-size prototypes in the General Motors’ wind tunnel – shaping clay and trimming foam board by hand to affect changes and measure them immediately.
Outside of the aerodynamics laboratory, engineers tested the ZL1’s aero aids on GM’s Milford Road Course, other race tracks and the unique “rolling road” wind tunnel at the Auto Research Center in Indianapolis.
When the dust settled and the wind-tunnel blades came to a stop, the Camaro ZL1 produced 65 pounds of downforce at an equivalent 150 mph (241 km/h) – compared to 200 pounds of lift in a Camaro SS – which was offset by an increase of only 40 counts of additional aerodynamic drag.
“From the driver’s seat, the added downforce makes a huge change in the feel, and responsiveness of the ZL1 at high speeds,” said Oppenheiser. “One of the best examples of how aerodynamics improved the performance of the ZL1 is the ‘Fuchsröhre,’ or Foxhole at the Nürburgring. In the ZL1, you can take that sweeping left-hand corner flat-out in fifth gear – nearly 160 mph (257 km/h). That’s a great testament to the confidence-inspiring stability and control the aerodynamic design helps give the Camaro ZL1.”
Seven elements contribute to the downforce of the ZL1:

1. Front fascia – The front fascia channels air for engine and brake cooling. The lower opening is larger than in a Camaro SS, providing greater airflow to the engine’s intercooler heat exchanger. Even the grille “fins” were shaped for optimal airflow. The corners of the front fascia, too, were reshaped to minimize lift, while the brake-cooling ducts in the outer corners of the lower grille opening provide a direct, high-flow path to the brake rotors. Cooling the brakes helps extend their life, particularly n the race track.

2. Hood – The ZL1’s hood has a vented, carbon fiber insert, contributing to both engine cooling and aerodynamic downforce. With traditional sealed hoods, air trapped in the engine bay creates lift at the front axle. With the ZL1, the specially shaped vents draw air up through the engine bay – allowing a significant volume of air flow while keeping the front tires firmly connected to the pavement.

3. Front splitter – Instead of a traditional front air dam, the ZL1 incorporates a racing-style splitter to help create downforce. Unlike some competitors’ vehicles that come with an add-on splitter, the ZL1’s does not have to be installed at the track – it is installed at the factory, and is designed with enough ground clearance for all driving conditions.

4. Front tire deflectors – The deflectors push airflow around the rotating wheels and tires more efficiently, reducing lift and drag. And by using deflectors in place of a traditional air dam, the downforce is less sensitive to pitch changes, making the ZL1 feel more stable at high speeds.

5. Belly pans – The ZL1 has two of them: one beneath the engine cradle and one at the rear of the engine assembly, just in front of the transmission. Both extend the width of the chassis out to the wheelhouse opening, to minimize airflow turbulence under the car. NACA-style ducts are incorporated into the rear belly pan for transmission cooling.

6. Rocker panels – Although subtle in appearance, the carefully shaped rocker panels help reduce lift and drag, while also contributing to stability during high cross winds. They also provide stone protection with the ZL1’s wider tires.

7. Rear spoiler – One of the most dramatic aero enhancements comes with the ZL1’s rear spoiler, which contributes approximately 150 pounds of down force at the cost of only 1 count of drag. It is taller and wider than the Camaro SS spoiler and incorporates the center high-mounted stop lamp.
The Camaro ZL1 goes on sale later in 2012. A convertible model will also be offered for the 2013 model year, starting in the summer of 2012. Pricing will be announced later.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:44 AM   #55
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This is great information. Very interesting. Still want to change out that spoiler?

Looks like downforce will probably hurt fuel economy: Don't expect that gas guzzler tax to disappear.
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:28 AM   #56
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I like it when they measure downforce in pounds by refer to drag in 'counts'.
What is 1 count of drag mean???

Either way I'm glad they made all these improvements. They'll really pay off when I drive it to work each day.
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #57
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I would guess 1 count means 1 pound of drag.
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Shurenuff View Post
I love these videos.

Chevy is doing a hell of a job making and marketing this car for the enthusiast.
I think Chevy got the marketing down packed now. They see if they market a car real good, then it will sale. Not to mention the Camaro pretty much is a hot commodity and could pretty much sale itself, but marketing does help alot.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDRDTD View Post
I like it when they measure downforce in pounds by refer to drag in 'counts'.
What is 1 count of drag mean???

Either way I'm glad they made all these improvements. They'll really pay off when I drive it to work each day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_count

Quote:
A drag count of 1 is equal to Cd of 0.0001. So if, for example, the steady state drag coefficient is 0.0200 and someone sticks a hand out the window adding 5 drag counts, the new drag coefficient would be:

0.0200 + 0.0005 = 0.0205 or 205 drag counts.

Drag count is used as a crude measure for the change in drag coefficient (it is not a direct measure of drag as it is associated with a reference area, it is only valid for use as a relative assessment of change).
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:01 AM   #60
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Not to go off topic, but why do you think that GM decided not to put a true racecar driver to lap the ring? I am just curious. I do not know the background of the driver who did the 7:41 but I know its not a racecar driver. Im almost willing to bet that this car very well could have done a 7:35 or so.. In any event, extremely impressive time coming from someone who does not race cars for a living!!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:07 AM   #61
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these videos are awesome. thanks!
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:08 AM   #62
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Not to go off topic, but why do you think that GM decided not to put a true racecar driver to lap the ring? I am just curious. I do not know the background of the driver who did the 7:41 but I know its not a racecar driver. Im almost willing to bet that this car very well could have done a 7:35 or so.. In any event, extremely impressive time coming from someone who does not race cars for a living!!!
From what I have heard, he was not a "Professional" but none the less, is a fantastic driver that happens to work for GM
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:14 AM   #63
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From what I have heard, he was not a "Professional" but none the less, is a fantastic driver that happens to work for GM

Yeah, he is a GM engineer. I knew his name but forgot it. Its on here somewhere though
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:15 AM   #64
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Not to go off topic, but why do you think that GM decided not to put a true racecar driver to lap the ring? I am just curious. I do not know the background of the driver who did the 7:41 but I know its not a racecar driver. Im almost willing to bet that this car very well could have done a 7:35 or so.. In any event, extremely impressive time coming from someone who does not race cars for a living!!!

personally it does matter, the time is remarkable, will you ever take your ride to germany, i know i couldnt lol. My best shot is to take it to the Glen
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:18 AM   #65
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Yeah, he is a GM engineer. I knew his name but forgot it. Its on here somewhere though
Here is a video of him talking about the new Cadillac ATS, which I think is their version of the ZL1
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs...f-c5e400d4e1b4
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:18 AM   #66
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Yes, I know it doesnt matter, but I was just curious as to why not? Maybe it didnt matter to GM or maybe they wanted to leave a little on the table (other manufacters stating "could you believe what they would have got if they used a racecar driver?"). Again, I was just curious and wondered if there was any true reasoning behind it that I may have missed.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:19 AM   #67
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Here is a video of him talking about the new Cadillac ATS, which I think is their version of the ZL1
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs...f-c5e400d4e1b4
thought ATS was the next gen platform... CTS-V is Caddy's ZL1.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:24 AM   #68
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thought ATS was the next gen platform... CTS-V is Caddy's ZL1.
After watching videos of the ATS I would have to disagree.
The same developers of the ZL1 are here talking about how Cadillac needs to be above and beyond anything else they have today.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:33 AM   #69
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After watching videos of the ATS I would have to disagree.
The same developers of the ZL1 are here talking about how Cadillac needs to be above and beyond anything else they have today.
I don't understand how that makes a difference. They're always trying to make tomorrow better than today. ATS is Alpha based and next generation, while the 2012 ZL1 will be Zeta based. There could very well be both a -V and ZL1 on the Alpha platform as well, but I still see the -V as the ZL1 of the Caddy.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:36 AM   #70
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Does increased downforce, which helps decrease drag, improve fuel economy?
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:41 AM   #71
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Does increased downforce, which helps decrease drag, improve fuel economy?
Increased downforce will improve traction, but reduce fuel economy. Reduced drag will improve fuel economy, but it may not be enough to compensate for the increased downforce.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:42 AM   #72
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I don't understand how that makes a difference. They're always trying to make tomorrow better than today. ATS is Alpha based and next generation, while the 2012 ZL1 will be Zeta based. There could very well be both a -V and ZL1 on the Alpha platform as well, but I still see the -V as the ZL1 of the Caddy.
I really don't think the platform matters as much as the market they are aiming for.
All I know, is what I have heard straight from the horses mouth. And after watching a few of the ATS videos, I think the ZL1 is in for some STIFF competition from Cadillac from the CTS-V AND the ATS.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:46 AM   #73
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I really don't think the platform matters as much as the market they are aiming for.
All I know, is what I have heard straight from the horses mouth. And after watching a few of the ATS videos, I think the ZL1 is in for some STIFF competition from Cadillac from the CTS-V AND the ATS.
I can't argue with information I've not heard myself.. So, I have no comment there..

On the CTS-V and ATS being competition for the ZL1 -- I don't see it as too big of an issue.. They're different cars for different reasons.. All very nice, but still have different markets themselves. Though, I am glad that CTS/ATS are taking up the 4 Door segment.. I can only imagine the erruption of threads here if GM announced a Camaro Sedan..
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:51 AM   #74
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Yeah, he is a GM engineer. I knew his name but forgot it. Its on here somewhere though
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:55 AM   #75
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I can't argue with information I've not heard myself.. So, I have no comment there..

On the CTS-V and ATS being competition for the ZL1 -- I don't see it as too big of an issue.. They're different cars for different reasons.. All very nice, but still have different markets themselves. Though, I am glad that CTS/ATS are taking up the 4 Door segment.. I can only imagine the erruption of threads here if GM announced a Camaro Sedan..
The CTS-V also comes in a two door.
As I understand it, the ATS will be under the CTS but is based on performance, with a Turbo 2.0L a V6 and a V8.
And last I heard the 2.0L ran a Nurburgring time of 8:28. The V8's time has not been released yet.
I think the real importance of what is going on at Cadillac, is that the people who were expecting the ZL1's price to be high, will be wrong.
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