Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Grabiak Performance Center
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics


View Poll Results: Will the zl1 be the best muscle car ever made
yes 35 20.35%
no 61 35.47%
the best is yet to come 65 37.79%
gt 500 nuff said 11 6.40%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-11-2011, 08:52 PM   #18
mr02Z/28

 
Drives: 2002 Z/28,1968 Chevelle convert.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phila.,PA
Posts: 964
any of you guys from the "era" of the True Muscle Car ??? I'm not sure the ZL1 can be compared to the Original Muscle Car era except maybe in HorsePower terms.... The Muscle Car was a Mid-sized car stuffed with a Big-Block motor, example GTO/Chevelle/GS/Skylark/Cutlass/442.. All the others like the Mustang and Camaro were considered Pony Cars, not Muscle Cars...
mr02Z/28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:27 PM   #19
lbls1


 
lbls1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2009 Malibu LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,444
Posts 16, 17. and 18: That is why I hinted that perhaps we are at a crossroads with the term muscle. Do we take it literally by saying that we're missing the gto, chevelle, gtx, torino cobra and gt, fairlane, Cyclone, and say that the zl1 should take a hike...lol...

Or should we admit that through the years the term muscle has stretched from its definition established at the creation of the GTO, to include the modern day cars like Challenger, Charger and now the Camaro? All three of these cars have grown (literally) to the performance, persona and legendary status of the muscle cars of old.

.....and in doing so (Naming zl1 as the pinnacle of Muscle Power)....what becomes of the original legacy of the pony car????

....getting interesting....
__________________
'02 CAMARO SS SOM; 5.7L LS1/FLS6B
'08 TBSS AWD Black Granite Metallic
'09 Malibu LT Dark Gray Metallic

'14 CAMARO ZL1 Blue Ray Metallic
lbls1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:32 PM   #20
Rock-It Man
376 cubic inches of fun
 
Rock-It Man's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS A6
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr02Z/28 View Post
any of you guys from the "era" of the True Muscle Car ??? I'm not sure the ZL1 can be compared to the Original Muscle Car era except maybe in HorsePower terms.... The Muscle Car was a Mid-sized car stuffed with a Big-Block motor, example GTO/Chevelle/GS/Skylark/Cutlass/442.. All the others like the Mustang and Camaro were considered Pony Cars, not Muscle Cars...
Kinda hard to beat an old muscle car like the 442 or GTO of the 60's, with a big block, a 4 speed, and a generous sized rear seat for...you know...
Rock-It Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:33 PM   #21
coolman
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 4,812
Muscle car, pony car ,what ever you want to call them, today's are far better than the old days and weather or not the ZL1 is king is yet to be seen. It's not even out yet. So to me this thread is meaningless.
coolman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:40 PM   #22
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,857
Well, the ZL1 isn't a muscle car. Muscle cars were just that. Muscle. They had more muscle than the driver. They required muscle< coordination, feel, and experience> to operate. Today's cars are like a living room couch with a remote where you watch HiDef TV. The ZL1 is a modern marvel, a tribute to all that is technolgicaly possible, but not a true muscle car. Those precious species live in a past gone era. Just my 2 cents. As you were.
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:45 PM   #23
coolman
Guest
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Well, the ZL1 isn't a muscle car. Muscle cars were just that. Muscle. They had more muscle than the driver. They required muscle< coordination, feel, and experience> to operate. Today's cars are like a living room couch with a remote where you watch HiDef TV. The ZL1 is a modern marvel, a tribute to all that is technolgicaly possible, but not a true muscle car. Those precious species live in a past gone era. Just my 2 cents. As you were.
I agree and say thank god for that.
coolman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 11:53 PM   #24
htron50


 
htron50's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 ZL1
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 2,462
May I add ONE tidbit to what OldScool says.

I MISS THE BIG BUCKET SEATS OF YESTERYEAR. Why they put these dinky small *ss seats in cars is beyond me. They make the consoles almost a friggin foot wide when we could have had wider bigger seats.

Who makes a car with Big bucket seats anymore? Who is designing these things. PEOPLE are fatter these days (see the news?) but the seats are 2/3 the size they used to be when on avg folks were smaller. Gimme a seat like in the old Chevelle or GTO and I'd be happy (and very comfy in my new Living Room of the road).
__________________
2012 CAMARO-ZL1
Sincere Thanks to City Chevrolet, Charlotte, NC http://www.citychevrolet.com/blog/ca...et-camaro-zl1/
htron50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 12:51 AM   #25
Kluch
 
Drives: CTS-V
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: LSD
Posts: 159
Best ever? Doubtful. Who knows what technology or how much horsepower the future will bring? Awesome car in the modern era and great bang for the buck? Yes. A force to be reckoned with? Absolutely.
Kluch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 01:33 AM   #26
hairtrigger
 
Drives: 69 Chevelle SS396 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West
Posts: 698
With all the perceived constraints on society from the conservationists and knee jerk politicians endorsing the peak oil/earth is melting senario,,,,there is still a huge following for Horsepower powered by oil and until oil ends we are going to see the Pony/Sports car wars continue. It will cost more in the short term but people are smart and the ZL1 in the future will be nothing but a step in the ladder. There will be better Muscle/Pony cars than the ZL1 or GT500 from 2012/13 in the future.
__________________
hairtrigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 01:44 AM   #27
1BADZL1
THE CAMARO KING
 
1BADZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro ZL1 on order #PZSD7S
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Out Somewhere Driving My 'BADZL1'
Posts: 2,284
Good thread, but totally subjective...
Depending on who you talk to.....
__________________
2012 Camaro ZL1 Car Name: Bruce
ZL1, LSA, MN6/MG9, DSX, RTQ, VR,
Current Status:
2030
1000 Initial Order 11/11/2011 Chevyland
1100 Order accepted at dealer: 11/11/2011 - PZSD7S
2000 Order accepted by GM: 12/14/2011
3000 Accepted By Production Control: 00/00/2011 - TPW 00/00/2011
3100 Sequenced: 00/00/2011
3300 Scheduled For Production:0/0/2012
3400 Broadcast: 0/0/2012
3800 Produced: 0/0/2012
4000 Available To Ship: 0/0/2012
4200 Shipped: 0/0/2012
5000 Delivered To The Dealer: 0/0/2012
6000 Delivered To Customer:0/0/2012
1BADZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 03:17 AM   #28
Ltespd
 
Ltespd's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS, 2006 SC Saleen
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 339
It may be the best up until this point. But I hope cars like this continue to be made...and they continue to improve.
__________________
2SS/RS, LS3, sunroof, mods.
Ltespd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:52 PM   #29
tmandoug1
Deep Sea
 
tmandoug1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.
Posts: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
That's the point.... you are LIVING a Legend. You are DRIVING a Legend. You will OWN a Legend. You will have the JOY of SHARING the Legend and the responsibility for PAYING it FORWARD.

This is like having a fortune ball, predicting the future, and then watching it unfold in real time in YOUR HANDS. OMG!

Edit: PRODUCTION MUSCLE car should have been in poll.
What you gonna say to a 2012 Zl1 Camaro when it goes by your 2013 ZL1 Camaro? I wish I coulda,,,,maybe.
tmandoug1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:49 PM   #30
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairtrigger View Post
With all the perceived constraints on society from the conservationists and knee jerk politicians endorsing the peak oil/earth is melting senario,,,,there is still a huge following for Horsepower powered by oil and until oil ends we are going to see the Pony/Sports car wars continue. It will cost more in the short term but people are smart and the ZL1 in the future will be nothing but a step in the ladder. There will be better Muscle/Pony cars than the ZL1 or GT500 from 2012/13 in the future.
That's all true, no denial, but the only factor you did not consider is the ever increasing price the consumer will pay for the performance car you mentioned. The working class will be priced out of the American factory performance market very soon..., and at a faster inflationary rate than we have been previously accustomed to. Huge CAFE increases loom on the horizon. My take is, if you don't like $54,995 for starters now, your sure not gonna like what 2015 and beyond has in store price wise. The performance car price is outpacing the middle class workers pay increase in pay scale. Unless you are independantly wealthy. Summary: This somewhat affordable party is gonna be over soon. Unless you got bucks to burn. If you don't, my suggestion to potential buyers on a budget is to get one now.
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 09:13 PM   #31
GoldenBear
Bear Backer
 
GoldenBear's Avatar
 
Drives: 69 Camaro Z/28, 69 Corvette Conv
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,490
I have found over the years that different people tend to have different definitions for the term "Muscle Car." Some think that the 1961 Impala SS with the 409 was the first muscle car, while others believe that the 1964 GTO was the first muscle car. Some think that to qualify as a muscle car that a vehicle must be a mid sized car with a large displacement engine, while other think all that is required is a large displacement engine. The 1964 1/2 Mustang certainly was not a muscle car, but some think that the late 60s big block Mustangs and Camaros were muscle cars, while others consider them Pony cars.

I prefer to refer to the new Camaro ZL1 a factory built high performance vehicle, and stay away from the muscle car nomenclature, as I agree with OldScool that the term muscle car is best left to vehicles of the 1960s and very early 1970s, since the muscle cars of that era were really quite different, in many respects including handling, comfort, features, sound systems, etc., from the factory high performance vehicles of today.

Regardless of what we label the ZL1, it's going to be one hell of a fun ride.

Be glad that you guys ordering 2012 Coupes don't have to wait as long to enjoy your rides as those of us ordering 2013 Convertibles have to wait.
__________________
Current Chevrolets: 1969 Camaro Z/28 -- 1969 427/390 Corvette Convertible -- 1970 350/300 Corvette Convertible -- 2013 Camaro ZL1 Convertible -- CRT / Exposed CF Weave Hood Insert / Suede Package / Polished Wheels / MN6
GoldenBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 09:15 PM   #32
htp autoworks
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2007 Jeep SRT-8
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 507
I dont get it. You want to call it a muscle car but throw in luxury options to make it a great daily driver. Doesnt make sense to me. Then you want to throw out it lapped the Ring in record time for a muscle car of 7:41... but a true muscle car wouldnt be running the Ring. It would be straight line performance. This article is a LOT of hype. A lot. Sure its going to be a great car and very quick, but you still have to throw in the ZR1 and Dodge Viper (which is more of a true muscle car to me... no nanny tech, big engine, big brakes, raw power with lots of torque... than the ZL1) which would blow the ZL1 off the road. I guess we need a little more definition of the term "muscle car' and quit taking it into other areas when making comparisons.

There are some highly modded SS's here in the DFW area that would destroy the ZL1... which they would fit the term muscle car more to me.
htp autoworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 07:23 AM   #33
1BADZL1
THE CAMARO KING
 
1BADZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro ZL1 on order #PZSD7S
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Out Somewhere Driving My 'BADZL1'
Posts: 2,284
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by htp autoworks View Post
There are some highly modded SS's here in the DFW area that would destroy the ZL1...

I hear the inkling of my first challenge...
Cool.. I am in Dallas... Can't wait for the challenge...
Street or otherwise.... Cedar Creek is just a hop skip and a jump...
Red Line..... C5 Fest III......
Ill even make it fair... I won't even mod it for you..

btw..... I hear a very young inexperienced age in your tone.. I was street racing 68 camaros when 68's were cool....
I go way back....

Bring it Boy... Bring It......
__________________
2012 Camaro ZL1 Car Name: Bruce
ZL1, LSA, MN6/MG9, DSX, RTQ, VR,
Current Status:
2030
1000 Initial Order 11/11/2011 Chevyland
1100 Order accepted at dealer: 11/11/2011 - PZSD7S
2000 Order accepted by GM: 12/14/2011
3000 Accepted By Production Control: 00/00/2011 - TPW 00/00/2011
3100 Sequenced: 00/00/2011
3300 Scheduled For Production:0/0/2012
3400 Broadcast: 0/0/2012
3800 Produced: 0/0/2012
4000 Available To Ship: 0/0/2012
4200 Shipped: 0/0/2012
5000 Delivered To The Dealer: 0/0/2012
6000 Delivered To Customer:0/0/2012
1BADZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 08:45 AM   #34
10forty2
 
10forty2's Avatar
 
Drives: 1992 Chevy K5 Blazer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BADZL1 View Post
I hear the inkling of my first challenge...
Cool.. I am in Dallas... Can't wait for the challenge...
Street or otherwise.... Cedar Creek is just a hop skip and a jump...
Red Line..... C5 Fest III......
Ill even make it fair... I won't even mod it for you..

btw..... I hear a very young inexperienced age in your tone.. I was street racing 68 camaros when 68's were cool....
I go way back....

Bring it Boy... Bring It......
Awwww...... It's on now!! There better be video!!!!
__________________
Love beautiful photos? Please visit:
http://dougloganphotography.zenfolio.com
10forty2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Muscle Cars vs. New Muscle Cars SamSS 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 158 07-13-2015 05:12 PM
Camaro Diesel Muscle Car? KILLER74Z28 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 142 03-14-2014 08:38 PM
What is modern muscle? an article KEEP RT 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 38 07-10-2011 11:41 PM
Winner, winner - Jalopnik compares the Big 3 Number 3 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 31 04-17-2011 04:24 PM
American Muscle: Ford, Dodge, and Chevy fierocamaro Off-topic Discussions 1 10-31-2006 11:43 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.