Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Bigwormgraphix
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2012, 12:26 PM   #15
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
You are on ordering constraint until our Autocross Grudge Match is over
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 12:46 PM   #16
BullF-16
USAF retired! Thank God!
 
BullF-16's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1SS, 1LT red,1LT/RS SGM 98Z28
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,782
HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?

My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The Camaro SS FE4 suspension moves the rear sway bar endlink / drop link mounting close to the knuckle to increase efficiency. The stock bars are now solid 23mm front and 24mm rear. The ZL1 will have 25mm solid front bars and 28mm solid rear bars. Chevrolet moved from hollow to solid bars for strength and durability. They did well, very well

Pedders exists to take Modern Muscle to the next level and we have a particular affinity for the 5th Gen Camaro. Our FE4 / FE5 sway bars are solid. The front is 27mm and adjustable. The rears are 32mm. Our bar sets are sold with high efficiency OEM quiet front end-links and fixed position drop- links. How do they perform, do you really need to ask? The owner of this Camaro is a law enforcement professional with countless hours of driver training. His professional opinion -- 'Holy shit, man! The front HOOKED not even CLOSE to breaking traction and the back end stayed right with it. I mean....when the car turns, it TURNS.'

Our FE4 / 5 rear sway bars can be retro fit to any 5th Gen Camaro. The new Camaro rear lower control arms have the 'old' style close to the differential endlink mounting tabs and the 'new' close to the knuckle mounting hole. This is a smart choice by Chevrolet as one coomon part number can be used on all versions of the 5th Gen Camaro. The new OE lower rear control arms are inexpensive.

Why did Chevrolet make the change in rear sway bar geometry and size? To make the 5th Gen handle better. From day one of the 5th Gen the bias of the car has been heavy on understeer. This is a function of weight distribution, wheel base, track, wheel and tire size and of course sway bar strength. The FE4 addresses both with improved rear sway bar geometry and sway bar strength. The old bars were hollow. The new bars are solid, the material is stronger. The old bars were almost the same diameter (strength) front and rear. The new FE4 rear bar is 1mm larger than the front. It doesn't sound like much, but coupled with the increase in efficiency of the new outboard mounting position it is a big difference. The FE4 Camaro is far more balanced that the FE3 SS. It is more neutral and handles better in the corners.

The new FE5 ZL1 takes this all on steroids. The front bar goes up in size to 25mm and the rear bar a huge jump to 28mm. Talk about balance from the factory

At Pedders, even great isn't good enough. We have been using a dumbed down rear alignment with a 32mm bar to reduce understeer and improve cornering. We set the rear camber to half the front camber or even less. The on track results were excellent. We feel we had a ZL1 two years ago with our Pedders USA Camaro. Now, there is a ZL1 so we have been hard at work with our partners at Lingenfelter on the L/28. When you next see the L/28 it will be running Pedders new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 sway bars.

Here is the new rear bar complete with Pedders drop-link.



The new 32mm bar takes up space, but there are ZERO clearance issues.




To get the aggressive alignment we wanted Pedders Extended Range Rear Camber and Toe bolts are necessary. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.


Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.


FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 Track Alignment

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -2.3 Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off
Toe: OUT .5

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required.

Heath Bratcher, owner of American Muffler / Pedders in Fredericksburg Texas, Jimmy his lead Pedders Tech, myself and TAG UR IT


We'll have these bars available in about 60 days. I'll have confirmed dates for the initial production run in a day or two for the made in the USA Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 27mm adjustable front with high efficiency OEM quiet front endlinks and 32mm rear bar with drop-links kits as well as pricing.

Yes, we will have a retro-fit 32mm rear bar and drop links ONLY option for our clients that ready have our front bars.

Yes we will take pre-orders so you can be certain to start your driving season with the new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 bars.

If you have a ZL1 on order, now would be the ideal time to order your Pedders upgraded sway bars.

If you drag race, you'll want to upgrade to Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 32mm rear bar with OEM Drop-links to improve control of the rear wheels and load distribution. Yes we will have a drag race kit.

Yes, Pedders Extended Range Alignment Bolts are IN Stock.
__________________
HKE LSX427(Mast blk lbl 305 6bolt LS7heads, PatG231/246 blower cam, RWHP/TQ: 1281/1133 SNL Performance Custom Twin PT6766 BB turbos 4 to 25psi selectable on the Boost Leash controller, Squash dual 400LPH/ID2000s, ALKY 4 gal meth, Autometer AFR/Bst/oilpres/oiltemp/fuelpress gauges, Pedders Justice road crs pkg: All HD bushes, supercar 12kg coil overs, supercar ZL1 sways, camber plates all setup by JusticePete! :Gforce 9" 35spline S-Trac, 1500hp Outlaw axles, 3.5"alum DS, Monster Triple disc; 4xForgeline 19x10.5 4xBridgestone 305/30R19 RE-11, CTS-v calipers/rotors/Cobalt friction XR1/3 pads
BullF-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #17
JusticePete
5th Gen Master Builder

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 18,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?
We knew the new style bar and drop-link would be more efficient, but were not sure how much. With the old style bar we compensated for understeer by reducing rear camber. With the new style bar found we could run the same incredibly strong solid 32mm rear bar and have a well balanced car. We can dial in more rear camber to improve cornering. The setup is much improved.

Long story short, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 05:28 PM   #18
sting808

 
Drives: 2010 SS RS
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 933
Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?)
sting808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:02 PM   #19
JusticePete
5th Gen Master Builder

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 18,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sting808 View Post
Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?)
The 32mm / Solution C does reduce change the bias / balance of the 5th Gen. The new 32mm even more so.

You have reduced you rear camber to reduce understeer ad that is good. You'll find that pulling the rear toe IN between .10 and .20 will increase stability. Change your front toe to ZERO and that will improve your turn in.

Add the 12 arms and new 32 and we can increase the rear camber to improve cornering while still having great front to rear balance. We are working on a turn key 2010 /2011 package that will include the '12 arms along with Pedders FE4 / ZL1 32mm rear bar and drop links.

You will love the result.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 03:30 PM   #20
Mr Twisty


 
Mr Twisty's Avatar
 
Drives: the 2nd amendment home
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 13,979
Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Mr Twisty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 06:06 PM   #21
Zman12
 
Zman12's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Gardner,Ks
Posts: 490
Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.

I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?
__________________
Whipple,custom cam,CAI,Kooks,Pedders and PFADT 626RWHP 549TQ ..
Zman12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 07:39 PM   #22
JusticePete
5th Gen Master Builder

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 18,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much
GTA... the name sounds familiar, but I can't place it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman12 View Post
Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.
Easiest way is to post a pic here or email one to me PGD@PeddersUSA.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman12 View Post
I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?
With the RWHP you are making you will want the new FE4 / ZL1 rear bar to match your adjustable 27mm front bar. Why? to more evenly distribute load on a hard launch. To bring better handling balance to your Camaro with the blower up front. I would wait on the lowering coils and install rear sub-frame bushes EP1201HD and EP6579 full face radius bush inserts along with you sway bars. Why? We want to plant the IRS assembly and eliminate rear end step out. The radius bush inserts will reduce unwanted dynamic caster changes. Add in a tight spec Pedders alignment and you won't believe the difference this makes every mile you drive. You'll fall in love with your 5th Gen like it was a new car.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 10:43 PM   #23
Addiction
It's not just a hobby!
 
Addiction's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Jax, FL.
Posts: 1,498
Is it Feb yet....
Addiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #24
davidcroft
Sellin Chevy's since '06
 
davidcroft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 SS sedan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Are the ZL1 sway bars a direct bolt on mod you can do to an FE4 2012 SS?
__________________
2014 SS Sedan-"houston stock" granny sedan
SOLD! 2013 Blue Ray1SS/1LE 1of20.
TRADED! 2012 White 1SS/RS
davidcroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #25
Rocky1974

 
Rocky1974's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 RJT 2SS M6 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Garrison,KY
Posts: 1,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off
Can you explain this? I'm not doubting you. It's just that I can understand that the front structure may be stiff enough that a strut tower brace is not needed, but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything.
Rocky1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 09:53 AM   #26
JusticePete
5th Gen Master Builder

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 18,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcroft View Post
Are the ZL1 sway bars a direct bolt on mod you can do to an FE4 2012 SS?
YES.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 09:58 AM   #27
JusticePete
5th Gen Master Builder

 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 18,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky1974 View Post
Can you explain this? I'm not doubting you. It's just that I can understand that the front structure may be stiff enough that a strut tower brace is not needed, but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything.
When you turn a corner hard the tower under the higher load will lean in just a hair increasing negative camber exactly when you want it most. A number of Grand Am Camaro TEAMs have stopped using a front strut tower bar. Pedders has been on record since day one on Camaro5 telling everyone that would listen you don't need one for many reasons, but we held back a bit on this detail. You don't want to tell the 'other' guys everything
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 10:37 AM   #28
Zman12
 
Zman12's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Gardner,Ks
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
GTA... the name sounds familiar, but I can't place it



Easiest way is to post a pic here or email one to me PGD@PeddersUSA.com



With the RWHP you are making you will want the new FE4 / ZL1 rear bar to match your adjustable 27mm front bar. Why? to more evenly distribute load on a hard launch. To bring better handling balance to your Camaro with the blower up front. I would wait on the lowering coils and install rear sub-frame bushes EP1201HD and EP6579 full face radius bush inserts along with you sway bars. Why? We want to plant the IRS assembly and eliminate rear end step out. The radius bush inserts will reduce unwanted dynamic caster changes. Add in a tight spec Pedders alignment and you won't believe the difference this makes every mile you drive. You'll fall in love with your 5th Gen like it was a new car.
I have ready to install and would like to put it all on now
Lowering springs
27 front bar with end links
1201HD
1167HD
PFADT trailing arms

Is it going to be ok to run front bar now and get a rear bar later, when I have the money?

I sold the 6577 full bush because I didn't want to have to find a press. My plan was gonna be to buy just the inserts 6578, but you think I should get the 6579 even for mostly street driving?

Willi need any alignment kits. I would like to get away with out them right now if I can. Thanks for the help.
__________________
Whipple,custom cam,CAI,Kooks,Pedders and PFADT 626RWHP 549TQ ..

Last edited by Zman12; 01-28-2012 at 11:04 AM.
Zman12 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CAMARO WIKI Tran Wiki 54 02-06-2016 11:33 AM
New Camaro ZL1 Video Feature - Phase Four: Aerodynamic Testing 1BADZL1 Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 104 11-13-2011 03:24 PM
Doug Thorley Catback installed on 2010 Camaro SS L99 erk5000 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 27 02-14-2011 02:29 PM
1968 SS hood grills installed on 2010 SS. jamesfl Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 86 02-03-2010 10:44 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.