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Old 05-03-2009, 07:13 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine Ball View Post
I feel people have a valid right to complain, are we supposed to be happy about this? I even hesitated about posting the pics, but then I'd feel like a huge jerk if someone went out and did the same thing to their new Camaro. Hopefully, this IS a weird occurrence and nobody has to suffer it. Anyway, the cat is out of the bag on THIS car, and it is up for the rest of us to decide how we feel about it or what we can do to fix the issue.

Like I said, it didn't change my excitement over the car, mine is still on the way. I might even take it up to 155 just to crack it, because I know several pansy owners will not.
Were you driving the car when it happened?? No, you were not, so you really don't know for sure what happened, you are simply relying on second and third hand information. Unless someone knows for sure what happened (i.e. they were driving the car or witnessed the "speed run" where it happened), then I think it is totally irresponsible to post pics and the "story" as fact.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:15 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by motorbuff69 View Post
theholycow.. How do we not know that there is damage in the middle of the bumper, he is not showing us pics of the whole front of the car.
He did examine it. Is there any reason to think he was lying?

It might be good to see some more pics, though.

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Originally Posted by tsg1391 View Post
i find it hard to believe that the bumper is that thin, but what do i know?
Bumper covers are that thin. The next time you see one abandoned on the side of the road where it was left after an accident, stop and look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
not necessarily. I've stepped on my bumper on the 94 numerous times, front and back and have yet to have spiderweb cracks.
Have you stepped on it hard enough to crack it like that?

Quote:
again, not necessarily. depending on what it hit and the angle it hit, if it was soft, yet dense enough to bend the plastic fascia, it might not chip the paint at the point of impact.
What could it hit that would be that soft and put enough even pressure on the whole thing to crack it at the ends but not bother it anywhere else? Air. I can't imagine what else it could hit that would leave no trace except those cracks.

Quote:
its a tricky thing, more than likely it is due to high speed wind stress, but why this one? why not the other camaros that have gone past 150?
Either someone overtightened something, this particular one wasn't as strong as the others, or just dumb luck that this one is the first. I'm not here arguing that it was definitely caused by wind or that it is something every owner should freak out about, I'm just trying to apply as much logic as possible and hoping that GM is giving it enough attention.

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Originally Posted by stovt001 View Post
Notice we have mountains of evidence showing that if any other consideration conflicted with design, design won. That's why we have bad visibility, a goofy oversized steering wheel, a shift knob that was designed by someone who never once saw a human hand grasp a knob, and a front fascia that has some properties that are by nature not aerodynamic. A wide, open, inset grill with an overhang is just asking for drag issues. Surprisingly the Camaro's cd is pretty nice, but you have to imagine there are downsides to that design.
Its cd is awful for the modern, sophisticated, efficient sports car that Chevy wants it to be. It's decent for the classic muscle car that a lot of Camaro5.com members want it to be, though. That parachute-shaped front end, as ballsy and classic as it looks, is probably most of the reason. Well, the car will never have any problems getting enough air to cool the engine, that's for sure!
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:16 PM   #275
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I hate to take this off topic but that's not a reason at all. The Mustang gets 5 star safety ratings and it is much, much lighter. 4,000 lbs does not equal "safe". There are plenty of lighter cars, including RWD sporty coupes, that weigh less and are perfectly safe. I'm not buying that at all.
1 The Mustang is a much, much smaller car. Scale up a Mustang and see how much it might weigh. The Camaro is a BIG car. Based on Zeta architecture which includes the Holden Commodore and Buick Park Avenue which are HUGE cars.

2 Mass wins in any collision. For example the much, much lighter Mustang will lose every head on collision with a Camaro. PERIOD.

3 The safety numbers provided by the government and IIHS are from hitting a WALL. This means the "head on collision" was with a car of exactly the same mass as the test car. Bigger, heavier cars win. Sorry but it's physics. Side impact testing is different as the moving barrier has the same mass for all tests.

4 That being said, most modern cars are very safe. And all companies are including a large amount of safety equipment and structure in their new designs. Which is why all cars are weighing more and more and costing more and more.

Oh and I did just go out pull up hard on the nose of 296. Yes, it does flex over the headlamps. It is possible this is all that happened to cause the cracks, but I am skeptical. Don't know the history of the car. Don't know if there was an "impact" or misuse prior to the test. I know that we test to the max speed and we certainly don't let some magazine run out be our first test at the max velocity of the car, let alone a customer.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:16 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
Were you driving the car when it happened?? No, you were not, so you really don't know for sure what happened, you are simply relying on second and third hand information. Unless someone knows for sure what happened (i.e. they were driving the car or witnessed the "speed run" where it happened), then I think it is totally irresponsible to post pics and the "story" as fact.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:18 PM   #277
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But I hope this was caused by "human" error after delivery and not a design/manufacturing defect. I'm leaning towards human involvement after delivery.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:23 PM   #278
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I'm wondering if anything like this was also found on Shelbys and other Mustangs during the intial 05MY runs? As said before, it could be a flaw inherent in the design of that nose style.
the hood on the s197 mustang dances like crazy at high speeds, many have reported of hoods lifting, and some cases of them flying off (including a grand am cup mustang, which even had hood pins)
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:41 PM   #279
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still gonna buy one,after much ado about this no one else has another issue so i count this a one time deal with a car that is being raged on hardcore by an outfit i don't trust
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #280
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part of the reason why the GTO's top speed was significantly higher than the '05+ mustang. The GTO is ultra areodynamic and the Mustang has that protruding hood that catches air.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:48 PM   #281
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WOW! Freakin awesome, thar car's so fast it rips the bodywork off!- my kid.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:49 PM   #282
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Well you said in your sig you wanted drama evotion. =P

As for this whole debate, I must agree with the mods. Tons of sensiless whining about things other than the issue at hand. I don't know how many peoople are going to go over 155 (I might depending on the track I go to and if it's modded), but I don't see this being a problem now since there's still only one occurance. When other's start posting that something like this has happened, then I'll start worrying about quality issues, but for now, this doesn't concern me very much.

The OP is right, it's a potential problem, but for now, it's just considered a fluke/one-off to me.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:51 PM   #283
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I did not want to sound like a kool aid drinking fanboy so I stopped at dealer and played with the facia. You can grab it right over the bowtie and lift the car up to the point of flexing the shocks with absolutly no give or flex. As you move along the lip there is no flex or movement. That would dispell the BS that this is high speed caused because I applied way more lift than wind lift on a surface would have caused. So then I applied downward pressure and it was actually much stronger and more solid feeling in that direction. Makes sense since air pressure would actually be pushing the front end down. When looking at the dynamics of the facia and the damage shown in the picture I would suggest that this was caused by severe collision with something down low. Perhaps smashing the nose into a curb or on the far up side of a dip. This would transmit torque up to where the damage is shown and cause a pulling action at that point. The front is pretty low and I would think that caution should be taken going thru dips or parking to avoid damage. Not unusual for a car like this. The Vette has about the same front clearance and many Vette owners report the caution they use to approach curbs and dips. To keep lift from under a car at top speeds the front must be low. I would suggest along with Milk....Read the entire thread.....check a car out yourself....and dont panic over an issue that was reported second hand. 9Ball saw the damage but he was not there when it occured....He jumped to conclusions as to its cause and there is absolutly no high speed air pressure evidence that caused the cracks......Use some common sense please.
Your jumping into some conclusions yourself. He just reported what someone who personally works on the car told him.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:51 PM   #284
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I just showed these pics to a paint and body owner, and he said " man thats f'd up"
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
WOW! Freakin awesome, thar car's so fast it rips the bodywork off!- my kid.
Awesome. That's the way we should look at it!
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Miles Finch View Post
I asked my local dealer about this and he told me that there is a TSB from Chevy that has already fixed this issue. I will guess that Hennessey had one of the first cars and it got out before the TSB was issued.
Can someone verify that a TSB is out on this already? I used to be able to get them online. It no worky no more.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:06 PM   #287
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Awesome. That's the way we should look at it!
thats some funny sheet...
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:14 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
Your jumping into some conclusions yourself. He just reported what someone who personally works on the car told him.
Yes, and my brother-in-law's best friend's barber has a friend who is highly placed in the government and he said that World War III was being started tomorrow morning at 10 AM. Now doesn't that sound ridiculous?? Unless you are the person that is doing the act in question or witnessing the act in progress, then you know absolutely nothing for sure. So far this whole thread has been a massive case of "he said, she said", absolutely no one that knows for certain how the damage happened has posted in this thread. We have seen some pics of damage but we don't know what happened.
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Last edited by wildpaws; 05-03-2009 at 08:16 PM. Reason: text correction
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:15 PM   #289
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Well, make sure you get insurance when renting!

I am not worried, GM will look at and resolve the issue. Besides, look at the underneath area of the fascia, it looks as if it might have been hit. There is not enough view of the entire bumper to see if it was tagged.

The Corvette has been in production for years. Each time a new model comes out it has it's own issues. The Camaro will follow suit.

GM, here is a big one for you. Just tell us soon what the plan will be.
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