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Old 03-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #1
Jer4251
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H&R springs sag in rear?

Ive got H&R sport springs installed. had them for 2 years now. car has 8k miles on it and the rear seems to keep sagging. they are suppose to be 1.4" drop front and 1.3" drop rear. but im getting 1.3" front drop and 2.3" rear drop.

whats it look like to you?

I contacted Tirerack where i bought them and they sent out a reply saying to check to make sure all the springs were in the upright position and in the right location. asked for before and after measurments, and pics of the side view of the car. hope they can help me out. im sitting at 660mm in the front and 641mm in the rear. measureing from the bottom of the rim to the center of the fender


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Old 03-14-2012, 01:03 AM   #2
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Looks like you may have cut your rear bump stops and you weren't supposed to. Did you?
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:42 AM   #3
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it was 2 years ago. I remember cutting 2 of them per the install instructions. but couldnt tell you what ones they said to cut. I'll look into it
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:44 AM   #4
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The chassis sits on the springs not the bump stops.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #5
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The bump stops will not effect static ride height. As mentioned above the chassis is supported by the springs themselves, the bumpstops are there to provide a cushion between the body of the shock and the fork to prevent the strut assembly from bottoming out suddenly.

Don't worry about it being a bumpstop issue. If the car keeps getting lower there is something else at play here.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:52 PM   #6
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im waiting for a responce from tirerack about the problem. will update once they tell me what to do.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:11 PM   #7
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If the car has been that low ever since you installed the springs then they may have lowered the car too much. If it has gotten progressively lower over the last two years then the springs may just be sagging. This happens with low quality springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@BSP View Post
The chassis sits on the springs not the bump stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
The bump stops will not effect static ride height. As mentioned above the chassis is supported by the springs themselves, the bumpstops are there to provide a cushion between the body of the shock and the fork to prevent the strut assembly from bottoming out suddenly.

Don't worry about it being a bumpstop issue. If the car keeps getting lower there is something else at play here.
I've installed hundreds of lowering springs on dozens of different type cars. There have been a few cars (mine included) that the springs lowered the car so much that it actually sat on the bumpstops. Therefore, if you cut the bumpstops that the car is literally sitting on, guess what happens? The car goes even lower.

Here is a couple of pics to prove my point.



Before cutting bumpstops






AFTER cutting bumpstops


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Old 03-15-2012, 09:30 AM   #8
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If your car is setting on the bump stops your handling sucks and is not safe. You should be setting on the springs and have the struts or shocks control josue.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #9
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I have had H&R springs to almost two years with no problems. I know not much help...
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@BSP View Post
If your car is setting on the bump stops your handling sucks and is not safe. You should be setting on the springs and have the struts or shocks control josue.
I'm pretty sure he corrected this issue. I dought he's ridding around sitting on the bump stops (lets hope not). That would be a very rough ride. I think he was just showing the pictures to demonstate what the O.P. is describing.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atti2de View Post
I have had H&R springs to almost two years with no problems. I know not much help...
whats your rear ride height from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom of the fender? my rear sits lower than the front.

H&R asked if i had cut the rear bumpstops and if so how much i cut. It was 2 years ago and i dont remember. I told them i followed their instructiions and if it said to cut them then i must have but am not certain. does H&R install call for cutting rear bumpstops?

Then they wanted to know the gap between the center of the wheels center cap to the fender lip on all 4 corners. my ride isnt rough, my rear end is very bouncy and doesnt bottom out. i dont think bumpstops are the issue, i think the springs are crap
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@BSP View Post
If your car is setting on the bump stops your handling sucks and is not safe. You should be setting on the springs and have the struts or shocks control josue.
The issue was corrected the same day. I just posted those pictures to show you and PfadtRacing that these cars do in fact sit on the bumpstops when you lower them too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer4251 View Post
whats your rear ride height from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom of the fender? my rear sits lower than the front.

H&R asked if i had cut the rear bumpstops and if so how much i cut. It was 2 years ago and i dont remember. I told them i followed their instructiions and if it said to cut them then i must have but am not certain. does H&R install call for cutting rear bumpstops?

Then they wanted to know the gap between the center of the wheels center cap to the fender lip on all 4 corners. my ride isnt rough, my rear end is very bouncy and doesnt bottom out. i dont think bumpstops are the issue, i think the springs are crap
The rear end is very bouncy because it is sitting on the bumpstops. That is how my car felt before I cut the bumpstops.

ANY car lowered as much as mine in that first picture IS sitting on the bumpstops if they weren't cut. That WILL give you a bouncy ride. That is why i recommend 1.0" to people.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:57 PM   #13
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I can push the rear down with ease even with it sitting so low. It hasn't always been this low. I think its gotten worse over time. No comparison to my buddys detroit speed springs. Even with almost the same drop rate. But his isn't sagging
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:14 PM   #14
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the day i installed the springs the rear dropped 1.5" since then its dropped almost another full inch. maybe it is riding on the bump stops, but that would only mean the springs themself are the problem right? its not suppose to drop that much with the springs i have
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I can push the rear down with ease even with it sitting so low. It hasn't always been this low. I think its gotten worse over time. No comparison to my buddys detroit speed springs. Even with almost the same drop rate. But his isn't sagging
Bumpstops aren't hard, they are soft and about 2 inches tall uncut. Suspension travel is proportional to ride height (it isn't 1 to 1). So, 2 inches of strut travel will gives you a little more than 2 inches of actual travel. So even if the car is sitting on the bumpstops you will still be able to compress the bumpstops by pushing down on the car.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:04 PM   #16
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I am confused.

If the springs drop the car so low that it sits on the bump stops at rest that would seem to be an issue to me. You wouldn't need springs then, would you?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:29 AM   #17
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I am confused.

If the springs drop the car so low that it sits on the bump stops at rest that would seem to be an issue to me. You wouldn't need springs then, would you?
Just because it sits on the bumpstops does not mean the car's entire weight is on the bumpstops. If you took the springs out all of the car's weight would completely squish the bumpstops.

Just like you can lift your car a couple inches by pulling on the fender, that doesn't mean you could do the same if you took the springs out.

No one realizes how extremely close to the bumpstops our cars sit after lowering. You would really be surprised if you take the dust boot off the strut.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:02 AM   #18
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The only way to really know is to have before lowering coils were installed ride height, after lowering coils, bushes timed and vehicle aligned ride heights. Then we could compare the current ride height. At Pedders, we measure from the bottom of the wheel rim, up through the wheel center to the painted edge of the fender. This measuring style eliminates the variables of the tire size and inflation.



It appears that is how the OP (Jer4251) measured. With 20" wheels the average OE ride height is 690mm front and 700mm rear. Again Jer4251 seems to have measured correctly. Before I go any further I do have a question for Jer4251. Have you added any weight in your car i.e. big time audio install?
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:43 AM   #19
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no weight added, it sits empry in my garage, rarely have more than 1/4 tank of gas too. H&R got back to me and said that my car looked correct and my rear ride height was the same as other cars with the same kit. I dont know how an advertised 1.3" drop turns into a 2.3" drop. thats a pretty big difference.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
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no weight added, it sits empry in my garage, rarely have more than 1/4 tank of gas too. H&R got back to me and said that my car looked correct and my rear ride height was the same as other cars with the same kit. I dont know how an advertised 1.3" drop turns into a 2.3" drop. thats a pretty big difference.
I agree.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #21
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I got the same springs and my car has been slammed in the back since day 1. It looks pretty much like yours. It definetely goes down more than the advertised amount in the rear, and yes my bumpstops are cut 3/4" but the instructions said to cut them 1". The tolerance just isnt there with most springs. I've seen these cars with Eibach Springs installed(advertised 1" frt & rear) and they sit lower than mine in the front and about the same in the rear.

For the record, I belive if I remember correctly when I measured mine it only dropped 1" in the front and almost 2" in the rear

But I'm okay with it untill I get some coilovers hopefully soon.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:11 PM   #22
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What are the effects of having the rearend sitting lower than the front? i may end up pulling them out and going a different direction
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #23
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Your rear camber has to be high and high negative rear camber leads to wear on the inside shoulder. You can address that with Pedders eXtreme range rear camber eccentrics. With those installed you'll be able to get into the OE rear camber range.
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