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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-03-2012, 11:40 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Are both the leather and cloth seats the same weight?
Now? No. The Leather seats have heaters (and heavier-weight material)...a couple or three pounds each seat.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
For your edification:

Engine Compartment
460.9 lbs – LT1 (5.7L) Manual with oil and flywheel
428.8 lbs – L36 (3.8L) Manual with oil and flywheel
405.5 lbs – LT1 (5.7L) Auto with oil and flexplate
391.2 lbs – L36 (3.8L) Auto with oil and flexplate
40 lbs – Optima red-top battery (sounds heavy???)
32 lbs – Madman manual rack & PA chromemoly k-member
25 lbs – Pair of stock manifolds with AIR tubes off LT1
18 lbs – AC compressor with lines
18 lbs – ATI 3 core F-Body intercooler
17 lbs – AC compressor with lines
14 lbs – Dyna Battery
12 lbs – Plastic insulation on firewall
12 lbs – ATI 2 core F-Body intercooler
11 lbs – Full windshield washer reservoir
10 lbs – ABS unit
9 lbs – AC condensor
9 lbs – AC condensor with accumulator
8-9 lbs – OEM motor mounts (pair)
8 lbs – Bracket for PS/AC compressor
7 lbs – Competition Engineer solid motor mounts
7 lbs – AIR pump hoses and bracket
4.4 lbs – Cruise control
3 lbs – EGR valve and aluminum tube
3 lbs – Wiper motor
3 lbs – BMR 2 point strut tower brace
3 lbs – All exhaust heat shields
2 lbs – Factory oil cooler lines
1.5 lbs – Horns (pair)
1lbs – Heater core lines

Drive Train
190 lbs – Moser 9″ (3.250 bearing) w/35 spline axles, Strange nodular iron section, full spool, 3:70 gears, no oil
135 lbs – Stock 7.5 rear end w/3.73 gears and oil
40 lbs – Centerforce heavy flywheel
35 lbs – Vigilante torque coverter new in box (inc box!)
34 lbs – Steel 2pc V6 driveshaft including center bearing carrier
28 lbs – A TH400 with 9″ converter is 28 lbs lighter than the 4L60E
20.5 lbs – LT1 stock flywheel
20 lbs – LT1 stock flywheel
16 lbs – Stock steel LT1 driveshaft
12.5 lbs – TPiS lightweight flywheel
12.2 lbs – 3rd gen aluminum 1LE driveshaft
12 lbs – LPE aluminum driveshaft
11.5 lbs – Stock aluminum LS1 driveshaft
10 lbs – RK Sport aluminum 1pc driveshaft
10 lbs – ??? brand lightweight flywheel
4 lbs – Transmission tunnel insulation

Wheels & Tires
58 lbs – AFS chrome 17×11 GS offset wheel with new Dunlop SP8000 315/35/17 tire
56 lbs – AFS chrome 17×11 GS offset wheel with BALD Dunlop SP8000 315/35/17 tire
56 lbs – 18×9 chrome Cobra R replica wheels with 285/35/18 tires
55 lbs – AFS silver 17×11 GS offset ZR1 wheel with new tire
55 lbs – 17″ Prime chrome 5 Stars with 275/40 tire
55 lbs – 17″ chrome Firewhawk wheel with new tire
54.5 lbs – Replica SS wheel with Khumo 712 275/40 tire
52 lbs – AFS chrome 17×9.5 ZR1 wheel with new Dunlop SP8000 275/40/17 tire
50 lbs – OZ Monte Carlo 17×9.5 with 1/3 tread 275 GSC
50 lbs – AFS polished 17×11 GS offset ZR1 wheel with new 315 BFG Comp TA drag radial
48 lbs – 16×8 stock chrome 5 star with Kuhma Estca Supra 712 tires (V rated)
45 lbs – 99 TA stock 16″ chrome wheels and tire (SZ 50)
44 lbs – 93-96 Camaro wheel with Nitto drag
41.5 lbs – 93-96 Camaro wheel with bald 255 BFG drag radial
40 lbs – Weld Pro Star (15×10) with new Hoosier QTP 28×11.5-15 (no tube)
35.3 lbs – New Dunlop SP8000 315/35/17 tire
31 lbs – New Dunlop SP8000 315/35/17 tire – hmm?
31 lbs – Kumho Victoracers 275/40/17 tire
30 lbs – New Dunlop SP8000 275/40/17 tire
29 lbs – 97 to 99 Vette standard rear wheel
28 lbs – Kumho Victoracers 315/35/17 tire
27 lbs – Weld Pro Stars (15×3.5) with Cooper 165R tire
27 lbs – 18×9 chrome Cobra R replica wheel
25.5 lbs – Hoosier A3S03 Autocross tire 315/35-17
25 lbs – Firestone SZ50EP stock size tire
25 lbs – New Futura 275/40/17 tire
24.5 lbs – Goodyear GSC 245/50/16 tire
24 lbs – 97 to 99 Vette magnesium rear wheel
22.5 lbs – Hoosier A3S03 Autocross tire 275/40-17
22 lbs – 90 Vette stock wheel 17×9.5
22 lbs – Hoosier R3S03 275/45/16 tire
22 lbs – 01 Camaro SS 17×9 wheel
22 lbs – 2 piece Centerline Sabre type 17×9.5 wheel
21.5 lbs – 97 to 99 Vette 18×9.5 wheel
20.06 lbs – 00 Vette standard rear wheel
20.5 lbs – OE ZR1 17×9.5 wheel
20.5 lbs – AFS replica 16″ SS wheel
20.1lbs – 97 to 99 Vette magnesium front wheel
20 lbs – CCW 17×10 wheel
20 lbs – CCW 17×11 wheel
20 lbs – 3 piece Centerline Sabre 17×9.5 wheel
19.5 lbs – 1996 stock Camaro wheel
19.5 lbs – Stock 5 star 16″ Z28 wheel
19 lbs – 2000 stock Camaro wheel
19 lbs – 97 to 99 Vette 17×8.5 wheel
18-19 lbs – Centerline 17×9.5 wheel
18.08 lbs – 00 Vette standard front wheel
18 lbs – Fiske FM5 17×9.5 wheel
17 lbs – 2000+ stock Camaro wheel (different than above?)
13 lbs – Weld Pro Star (15×8)
10 lbs – Weld Pro Star (15×3.5)
10 lbs – Bogart DragStar 15×10 racing wheel

Interior
65 lbs – Wolfe weld-in 6pt. roll bar
42 lbs – 1997 Camaro front leather power seat
40 lbs – Carpet with the sound deadener
38 lbs – Spare tire and jack
36 lbs – Spare tire and jack
34 lbs – Passenger seat
32 lbs – 1997 Camaro front leather manual seat
29 lbs – Rear seats
24 lbs – Heater core
20 lbs – Front & rear seatbelts with bolts
17 lbs – Passenger airbag with bracket
10 lbs – Driver side airbag
9 lbs – Center console (Trans Am)
7 lbs – Under dash AC plastic moulding
7 lbs – Bose speakers (95 Z28)
6.9 lbs – 6 way power seats over manual seats
5 lbs – Stereo
5 lbs – Rear pair of seat belts and retractors
4 lbs – Rear panel with speaker
4 lbs – Rear hatch cover / divider
2.7 lbs – Power windows over manual windows
2.7 lbs – Sunvisor (pair)
2 lbs – Sunvisor (pair)
2 lbs – Glove Box
2 lbs – Rear hatch cover
2 lbs – Insulation glued to dash
2 lbs – Factory Monsoon amp
1.8 lbs – Power door locks over manual locks
1.8 lbs – Rear floor mats
1.3 lbs – Remote truck release motor
1 lbs – Rearview mirror
0.4 lbs – Keyless entry option over no keyless entry
0.4 lbs – Rear window defogger

Exterior
44 lbs – 93-97 Stock Camaro hood with insulation
31 lbs – Rear bumper reinforcement and brackets
23 lbs – Front bumper reinforcement and brackets
12.3 lbs – T-tops
4 lbs – Front impact absorber
3 lbs – Wipers
2.7 lbs – Z28 fog lamps
1.8 lbs – Body side mouldings

Suspension
33 lbs – Suspension Techniques 35mm front sway bar
14 lbs – Front sway bar and brackets
14 lbs – 2002 stock torque arm
13 lbs – Stock rear springs
13 lbs – Front sway bar
12 lbs – Edelbrock torque arm
8 lbs – Rear sway bar with end links
2 lbs – Rear spring perches
2 lbs – Front sway bar mount

VERY INTERESTING...wish we had this for the 5Gen!
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #53
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VERY INTERESTING...wish we had this for the 5Gen!
If we start unbolting parts and weighing them, then we shall.
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:58 PM   #54
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Well, I doubt they sent the Gen-5 components to a FattenUp-Farm...excepting the side air bag-equipped seats...and, of course, those cast 20s...
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #55
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A/C delete doesn't save a huge amount of weight but it IS weight at the front of the car which is generally a bad thing.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #56
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A c/f Ram Air-Extractor hood and prop-rod on a Z28 would likely = A/C-delete, weight-wise...

An smc-based hood (like Gen-4 SS/Firehawk) would be a few pounds more.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:58 AM   #57
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I found these dimension for aftermarket Recaro Seats that are street legal:

Backrest Height: 830 mm (32.7 inches)
Shoulder Width: 527 mm (20.7 inches)
Seat cushion Width: 535 mm (21.1 inches)
Maximum Seat Cushion Depth: 540 mm (21.3 inches)
Gross Weight: Sport: 37.5 lbs., Sport Topline: 45.2 lbs.

Thus I have a hard time believing that there would be a significant weight decrease from the factory seats unless there are more substantive numbers provided like weight for power seats mechanism and weight for the Gen 5 seats.
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:19 AM   #58
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forget about the Horsepower number....why isn't there a 1LE sub-forum yet?
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Not to question anyone's stats or intent, but here's a listing of GEN-FOUR CAMARO components, throughout the car:

http://www.lt1engines.com/tech/camar...f-body-weight/

Driver's 6-way Power Leather Seat = 42 lb.
Passanger's non-powered seat = 34lb.
Passanger Air Bag = 17 lb. (includes bracket)
Driver's Air Bag = 10 lb. (which is likely the weight of the seat bags)

So, removing TWO 6-way Seats (from a Gen-5) that contain TWO Air Bags is gonna total a bit over 100 total, imho. Add back the weight of the replacements (and their tracks/adjusters/adaptors), and you have a net weight loss of (maybe) 50-70 lb... One-piece seats will weigh less, but offer NO recline adjustment beyond fore-aft. Two-piece aftermarket seats, with adjustable seatbacks, will diminish the weight savings further. And typical aftermarket seats are NOT air bag-equipped.

Notice the difference in weight between non-powered and powered seats...6.9 lb/ea, so 1LS seats would save 14 lb (with Air Bags) over 1SS seats, while maintaining OE safety standards for street driving.

Notice deleting the rear seats (29 lb) and belts/retractors (5 lb) = less than ONE front seat...

Notice the A/C compressor and condensor, and Power Windows/Locks/Keyless weigh a total of 32 lb...which pops the "urban myth" that Gen-4 1LE F-cars weighed a LOT less...they didn't!
how much do you think the heater core in the 2SS seats weight? I can see you missing that weight addition. weather it be 2 lbs or 10 lbs. it's still weight that should be accounted for.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:43 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
how much do you think the heater core in the 2SS seats weight? I can see you missing that weight addition. weather it be 2 lbs or 10 lbs. it's still weight that should be accounted for.
...top of this page...

Remember, 1SS/1LE is cloth, 2SS/1LE is heated leather. I would expect the same Option would apply if/when the ZEE appears. I think there was "sufficient feedback" re: 1LE Surveys to see that cloth was made the Standard trim, as opposed to the leather-lined Concept @ SEMA '11...

So they ARE "listening"...
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:30 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
...top of this page...

Remember, 1SS/1LE is cloth, 2SS/1LE is heated leather. I would expect the same Option would apply if/when the ZEE appears. I think there was "sufficient feedback" re: 1LE Surveys to see that cloth was made the Standard trim, as opposed to the leather-lined Concept @ SEMA '11...

So they ARE "listening"...

Well since it's an option to the SS line up. I think they only made it available on what was out. if the SS only came in leather then that's what it would be. but since 1SS isn't leather that is the option you are getting with the 1SS.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #62
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The initial "1LE Concept", revealed at SEMA '11, was a leather-trimmed car based on a 2SS...and added even more. POLLS ensued, at Mr. Settlemire's behest. "Should we build the 1LE AS SHOWN?" [my emphasis]

Poll #1: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197784

Eventually, after MUCH debate (as per Post #76 Page 4), a revised Yes or No poll was created: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200804

However...partly from the THREE questions asked and answered in the FIRST poll??...there is NOW a 1SS-based 1LE...which may NOT have happened had we simply had the Yes or No poll, first...
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The initial "1LE Concept", revealed at SEMA '11, was a leather-trimmed car based on a 2SS...and added even more. POLLS ensued, at Mr. Settlemire's behest. "Should we build the 1LE AS SHOWN?" [my emphasis]

Poll #1: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197784

Eventually, after MUCH debate (as per Post #76 Page 4), a revised Yes or No poll was created: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200804

However...partly from the THREE questions asked and answered in the FIRST poll??...there is NOW a 1SS-based 1LE...which may NOT have happened had we simply had the Yes or No poll, first...
The whole concept of an LE is limited equipment with performance. I honestly don't care what the polls say. to be true to the LE concept the base 1SS is where is should have started. And everything should be an option there afterwards. And to me ordering a 2SS with the LE is kind of defeating the purpose of the LE concept. I'm not calling the camaro a luxury vehicle but the 2SS has a lot of luxury over the 1SS.

but if I ordered an LE and wanted leather seats I should add that option. If I wanted a hud I should add that option.

The Polls could have been done to prove a point. two thoughts behind the scenes one saying it should only be made one way and another with the truest mind set of the LE concept. And the polls only reconfirmed that.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #64
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LE, as applied generally within automotive-dom, equates to Limited EDITION, or Luxury EDITION.

1LE, as chosen by GM in '88, was NOT "One - Limited Equipment"...it was simply a 3-digit alpha-numeric as used by GM for ALL equipment and options. Just as Z28 was a rather randomly-chosen Option Code, "next on the list". Coulda been Z29...or W86...or... And the "Z" in Z28 is NOT reference to Zora Arkus-Duntov, as a certain "wives tale" had it...

There is NO DIRECT MEANING for the "LE" in "1LE"...
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:01 PM   #65
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right. agree to disagree on this one.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #66
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Some background:

http://ve3eie.ncf.ca/1le_history.html

http://www.cartersclassicmusclecars....g%20series.htm

We raced in the '86 GM/Player's Challenge Series (finished 6th Overall), when GM-Canada engineers Bill Ball and Earl Dickenson (the guy who brought fellow-competitor Ron Fellows to Herb Fishel's attention @ GM Racing) were developing "upgrades" to keep the IROCs and T/As on-track from failing brakes...developments which became the core of the '88-on 1LE Program.

The reason we finished 6th, in '86? We stayed home from the Canadian Grand Prix support race event in Montreal because of...YUUUP!...brake issues... If we'd raced and finished 24th or better in that race (many spots below our worst finish, the rest of the season), we'd have WON the Series...
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #67
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quoted from your first link, which I had already read before.

So the 1LE option became more than just a brake upgrade. And in order to keep these specially-equipped race Camaros as light as possible and out of the hands of just any buyer, Chevrolet decided to delete air conditioning and all power amenities from the 1LE-equipped Camaros. This, they thought, was surely enough to turn away all but the most devoted racers.


like I said. agree to disagree.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:20 PM   #68
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From '88 to '92 (Gen-3), Air Conditioning was NOT standard equipment...it was part of PEGs 1-2-3...which could NOT be ordered with 1LE, which WAS in fact:

"G92 Performance Axle Package", (without C60 A/C [non-PEG, therefore Base Model only]) $675 including 4WDB with Special HD Front Disc Brake Package, Aluminum Driveshaft and Spare Wheel, Performance Exhaust System, Engine Oil Cooler and Special Shocks (deletes Standard Driving Lights). [THIS is the 1LE Package]

"G92 Performance Axle Package", (with C60 A/C) $465 including Performance Exhaust System, Engine Oil Cooler and 4WDB.

Page 87 of the pdf file: http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-h...let-Camaro.pdf

All PEGs (1-2-3) included Body Side Moulding and Floor Mats, which 1LEs did not receive either (unless ordered individually, or added later).

So, in truth, the ONLY DELETE in a Gen-3 "1LE" was the Front Driving Lights...and the area they opened up made a great place to run Front Brake Cooling Ducts, when/where allowed...

What Gen-3 "1LE" cars WERE was Option-Restricted...and featured some unique-to-them components.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #69
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I was just reading the new issue of gmhtp, in that's issue they test a 12 gs corvette manual. With the handbuilt ls3, it layed down 415rwhp. I wonder if there's any chance of this being the ls3 they will use, in wet sump form.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:46 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
From '88 to '92 (Gen-3), Air Conditioning was NOT standard equipment...it was part of PEGs 1-2-3...which could NOT be ordered with 1LE, which WAS in fact:

"G92 Performance Axle Package", (without C60 A/C [non-PEG, therefore Base Model only]) $675 including 4WDB with Special HD Front Disc Brake Package, Aluminum Driveshaft and Spare Wheel, Performance Exhaust System, Engine Oil Cooler and Special Shocks (deletes Standard Driving Lights). [THIS is the 1LE Package]

"G92 Performance Axle Package", (with C60 A/C) $465 including Performance Exhaust System, Engine Oil Cooler and 4WDB.

Page 87 of the pdf file: http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-h...let-Camaro.pdf

All PEGs (1-2-3) included Body Side Moulding and Floor Mats, which 1LEs did not receive either (unless ordered individually, or added later).

So, in truth, the ONLY DELETE in a Gen-3 "1LE" was the Front Driving Lights...and the area they opened up made a great place to run Front Brake Cooling Ducts, when/where allowed...

What "1LE" cars WERE was Option-Restricted...and featured some unique-to-them components.
per you're argument you just used. So one then could surmise that your sources could be wrong. I quoted a source you provided and now you are arguing against that same source.

1LE limited your equipment and options. I've also stated the they were meant for more performance. you can take that as meant for racing. Now, This is where we differ. I honestly believe the LE reference did have a meaning behind it and wasn't just some arbitrary designation, ie z28. And nothing you've shown me has honestly proven that I am wrong. When in fact the options and equipment you receive when you ordered a 1LE did limit things.

This is why I've sat here and said lets just agree to disagree. I'm sorry if you feel that you must persuade me to believe you. but I just don't care enough to go ask the people that developed the original 1LE what they meant, if anything.

and again we can/should agree to disagree because this is an argument that is pointless. Better sources for history are a must if you want to prove something, and then don't contradict them in your very next post.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
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quoted from your first link, which I had already read before.

So the 1LE option became more than just a brake upgrade. And in order to keep these specially-equipped race Camaros as light as possible and out of the hands of just any buyer, Chevrolet decided to delete air conditioning and all power amenities from the 1LE-equipped Camaros. This, they thought, was surely enough to turn away all but the most devoted racers.
"Delete" is incorrect...should be RESTRICT...which was what they did through the Production run, even into Gen-4. 1LE was only offered on Base, non-powered non-a/c'd cars through at least '95. CC1 (T-Tops) and AG1 (6-way Power Seat) were NOT available as free-flow options, either.

Sorry my reference was not completely accurate.

With regard to a "bare-bones" version these days, the Team is "adamant" that "strippers" (without poles, as opposed to polls!) just won't sell in "sufficient" volume, so for us to realistically expect "something" seriously missing "basic creature comforts" (read: no a/c-pw-pdl-rke) seems remote (NO pun). And, as the Gen-4 component weight figures (above) show, there's limited weight to be truly saved...and it just might be saved in another manner...

Cheers, bmr!
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:27 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
"Delete" is incorrect...should be RESTRICT...which was what they did through the Production run, even into Gen-4. 1LE was only offered on Base, non-powered non-a/c'd cars through at least '95. CC1 (T-Tops) and AG1 (6-way Power Seat) were NOT available as free-flow options, either.

Sorry my reference was not completely accurate.

With regard to a "bare-bones" version these days, the Team is "adamant" that "strippers" (without poles, as opposed to polls!) just won't sell in "sufficient" volume, so for us to realistically expect "something" seriously missing "basic creature comforts" (read: no a/c-pw-pdl-rke) seems remote (NO pun). And, as the Gen-4 component weight figures (above) show, there's limited weight to be truly saved...and it just might be saved in another manner...

Cheers, bmr!

The mentality of the 1LE is different then today. Today they want to sale as many as possible. back then they only wanted to sale them to racers. and that's why I don't expect them to delete the AC and power steering. and with todays accessories power isn't robbed as much as it use to be. So the point for them to even remove them is not there. If I end up with another camaro out of all the ones available it will be a 1LE. but I doubt I will be getting a 2SS since it would be more of a race car then a DD. every bit of weight savings helps.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:34 PM   #73
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...and something akin to SEMA '10's SSX, as attractive as it may have been to the "hardcore", is "missing" from the Camaro lexicon, these days...
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:43 PM   #74
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I was just reading the new issue of gmhtp, in that's issue they test a 12 gs corvette manual. With the handbuilt ls3, it layed down 415rwhp. I wonder if there's any chance of this being the ls3 they will use, in wet sump form
Damn. 415 rwhp stock. That would be sweet. Link where a stock one is making 415 rwhp?

I am surprised the 1LE doesn't have oiling system change like the gs.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #75
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Dry-sump offers "packaging problems" for the Gen-5 Camaro...
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