OBX Longtube Headers

[Avenging Orange]

[QUOTE=ss/rs-matt;4801511]Hey! This all looks so familiar...lol.

No kiddin! Except this time my posts and a few others mysteriously disappeared............And I didnt even say anything derogatory!
But I will say again....I do love my OBX and I'll be dam**d if I will let anyone tell me I cant talk good about them!

[ewoolsey]

I just wanna clearly state that I did not mean to offend anyone! I said something I shouldn't have said! I'm happy for all you kooks arh and stainless owners! Good for you guys sometime us OBX guys just need a little love

[MarylandSpeed]

Well..I guess this proves..even if I stay out a thread..the subject still causes an argument.

At the end of the day this is pretty simple. If you don't want to spend money on American made headers, and lowest price is the biggest factor in your header decison, then yes you have options, including overseas copies. It's your money, do what you want and have fun modding your car. I am not here to hurt anyone's feelings, make them feel bad about what they bought, or whatever. However everything with this is not happy unicorns jumping over rainbows. The reason they are cheap is they took another companies design, and copied it using inferior materials and workmanship overseas. No matter how cheap they are, that fact is unavoidable and the 800lbs gorilla in every one of these threads.

So with that in mind...

A.) Don't expect to go parading around the forums about how great they are, and how you saved so much money and not expect a response. The people who already have a set, or are only gonna spend $500 willl agree with you, and cheer you on for thumbing your nose at the chinese header haters. However there are also a lot of people pay good money for a premium product, and do not take kindly to having people brag about how great a cheap knock off is. This is not limited to headers, pretty much every retail market I know on, it is frowned upon to support knockoffs or brag about purchasing them. It's like going an a sunglass forum and bragging about your fake Oakley's.

B.) In terms of build quality, they are not the same as the premium headers they copies..or even in the ball park. We are talking exhaust pipe here..so it is pretty easy for the stuff to be functional and do the job...but that does not mean the quality is there. It's easy to see shiny headers and think "OMGZ..pretty!", but if you know what you are looking at..there is a big difference.

I will be at Camaro5 fest and have both brands on display. I had both at Camaro5fest last year, and will this year too..and lets say after seeing both..no one was asking me about how to get the cheaper set.

Lastly, there is no "Camaro Tax". Maybe we want to have an ego trip and think that somehow the Camaro is such a hot market that vendors can charge whatever they want and the poor customer gets screwed. The reality is, this is the most competitive market in the aftermarket right now. There are competitors crawling all over one another to get business. Additionally, with most of this happening online, most customers don't care as much about service, and often let whoever has the absolute lowest price dictate who they buy from. If you a a customer, you have a lot more pricing leverage owning a Camaro, which is made in pretty high numbers than say...a SSR, Challenger, or LT1 Camaro where there are many less options parts wise, and fewer vendors fighting for your business.

There are 5 premium header companies out there, and pretty much all of their pricing is within $300 of one another. These are VERY competitive companies, and if one could undercut the other by $400 and run a profitable business, it would happen. The problem is, you can't drop prices that much unless you off shore production..and normally you take a quality and reputation hit. People can buy a $300 set of no name knock offs on ebay..and if the hardware sucks, and they need to be hammered to fit..whatever..it's what you expect. Buy budget name brand headers made in China, and there is a fit issue, not only do you expect a higher level of service than you would the ebay headers..but now there is also the reputation hit from customers being suspicious some of your products are made overseas.

Additionally..do some price research. Kooks headers, and catted connection pipes for a Camaro run $1349 (minimum advertised price).

The same set up for each vehicle below runs-

Dodge Challenger- $1500
Pontiac G8- $1349
LS1 4th Gen Camaro- $1500
C6 Corvette- $1700
Shelby Mustang- $1400
2005-2010 Mustang GT- $1300 (these are much smaller headers).

Additionally in terms of premium, US made headers, Kooks is on the cheaper end. The bottom line is if you want to design your own header in the US, with as much US sourced material as possible, and make it in a non job shop/contract environment (meaning all you make is exhaust, not like lawn furniture when things are slow), then these prices are what you have to charge.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

but at what point does the decision get made to sell fewer quantities of a product at a higher price vs selling larger quantities at a lower price?

This is a slippery slope. For instance to sell more headers means you have to buy more benders (see what one of those costs), hire more employees, pay more taxes, and so forth. There are other things like most of the header companies I know are always struggling to hire enough welders because there are only so many skilled ones.

And some things are inflexible and not subject to scales of ecomony. For instance, doubling business will not make your cost of labor do down. A header will still take the same time to weld, and the welder will make the same money per hour. The price of stainless steel is inflexible. Additionally, we have a government system that tightens regulations, and removes incentives as a business becomes bigger.

It becomes a game of deminishing returns. Think of it this way. Imagine you own a business, and someone told you they had a plan to double sales. However to double sales, you had to cut your profit margin in half, double your manufactuering staffing, invest $250K in machinery, and find a bigger building. Suddenly double sales becomes a loss.

Lastly throw in that this is a market largely governed by discretionary spending. I know every time gas goes up, or the government threatens to shut down, our sales go down with it. When you add a lot of overhead, that hurts your ability to rightsize to meet demand.

[papawattz]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Well..I guess this proves..even if I stay out a thread..the subject still causes an argument.

At the end of the day this is pretty simple. If you don't want to spend money on American made headers, and lowest price is the biggest factor in your header decison, then yes you have options, including overseas copies. It's your money, do what you want and have fun modding your car. I am not here to hurt anyone's feelings, make them feel bad about what they bought, or whatever. However everything with this is not happy unicorns jumping over rainbows. The reason they are cheap is they took another companies design, and copied it using inferior materials and workmanship overseas. No matter how cheap they are, that fact is unavoidable and the 800lbs gorilla in every one of these threads.

So with that in mind...

A.) Don't expect to go parading around the forums about how great they are, and how you saved so much money and not expect a response. The people who already have a set, or are only gonna spend $500 willl agree with you, and cheer you on for thumbing your nose at the chinese header haters. However there are also a lot of people pay good money for a premium product, and do not take kindly to having people brag about how great a cheap knock off is. This is not limited to headers, pretty much every retail market I know on, it is frowned upon to support knockoffs or brag about purchasing them. It's like going an a sunglass forum and bragging about your fake Oakley's.

B.) In terms of build quality, they are not the same as the premium headers they copies..or even in the ball park. We are talking exhaust pipe here..so it is pretty easy for the stuff to be functional and do the job...but that does not mean the quality is there. It's easy to see shiny headers and think "OMGZ..pretty!", but if you know what you are looking at..there is a big difference.

I will be at Camaro5 fest and have both brands on display. I had both at Camaro5fest last year, and will this year too..and lets say after seeing both..no one was asking me about how to get the cheaper set.

Lastly, there is no "Camaro Tax". Maybe we want to have an ego trip and think that somehow the Camaro is such a hot market that vendors can charge whatever they want and the poor customer gets screwed. The reality is, this is the most competitive market in the aftermarket right now. There are competitors crawling all over one another to get business. Additionally, with most of this happening online, most customers don't care as much about service, and often let whoever has the absolute lowest price dictate who they buy from. If you a a customer, you have a lot more pricing leverage owning a Camaro, which is made in pretty high numbers than say...a SSR, Challenger, or LT1 Camaro where there are many less options parts wise, and fewer vendors fighting for your business.

There are 5 premium header companies out there, and pretty much all of their pricing is within $300 of one another. These are VERY competitive companies, and if one could undercut the other by $400 and run a profitable business, it would happen. The problem is, you can't drop prices that much unless you off shore production..and normally you take a quality and reputation hit. People can buy a $300 set of no name knock offs on ebay..and if the hardware sucks, and they need to be hammered to fit..whatever..it's what you expect. Buy budget name brand headers made in China, and there is a fit issue, not only do you expect a higher level of service than you would the ebay headers..but now there is also the reputation hit from customers being suspicious some of your products are made overseas.

Additionally..do some price research. Kooks headers, and catted connection pipes for a Camaro run $1349 (minimum advertised price).

The same set up for each vehicle below runs-

Dodge Challenger- $1500
Pontiac G8- $1349
LS1 4th Gen Camaro- $1500
C6 Corvette- $1700
Shelby Mustang- $1400
2005-2010 Mustang GT- $1300 (these are much smaller headers).

Additionally in terms of premium, US made headers, Kooks is on the cheaper end. The bottom line is if you want to design your own header in the US, with as much US sourced material as possible, and make it in a non job shop/contract environment (meaning all you make is exhaust, not like lawn furniture when things are slow), then these prices are what you have to charge.

I just recieved my Kooks by the way,very nice! Also I am glad I made the decision to spend the extra money on the American Made header. I was considering the OBX's, but realized that one, I make a very good living and get compensated well for the work that I do, so why not buy something from a manufacturer that Hires (and I'm sure, pays well ) there American workers that also do a quality job! I preach all the time "buy American" and well, I need to practice what I preach!(I know My Camaro is Made in Canada, but Canada might as well be our 51st state...LOL) Besides the profits from my car go back to GM, an American company. I'm telling you we all need to wake up, and realize if we keep turning our backs on American Manufacturers and keep buying Chinese products were all gonna be hurtin'!! Our economy will fallOk I'm off my soap box now, I know nobody has the right to tell another person what to buy with his/hers money, but come on people how long do think the USA will continue to prosper when all our jobs disappeer!!!

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

Camarosspike, you read the first comment and didn't really give a valid responds. you are right about what you said,BUT you asked me to say why GM "loves" the global parts and global assembling idea. the answer always comes to money, and GM like any other business loves to save money and make money. again they love other countries because its cheaper.. do you agree? its really nothing against GM every american car maker does it. but still the fact remains.

Sorry I didn't address your comments completely.
I agree everyone loves cheaper stuff. Money makes the world go round. My comments were more towards the "buy american over anything else" comments.

The LS3 and L99's are built in St Catherines, Ontario. The tremec is built in Mexico and the car itself is assembled in Canada. How many parts are already made in china because they are "cheap, low quality pieces"?

I support buying american before outsourcing. But considering how much of the car is already produced overseas, one more part doesnt bother me. That being said, thats my opinion. I'm a bang for the buck guy. I'll most likely buy a set of used kooks or ARH headers when the time comes, but it goes back to the comment about pacesetter headers with 4th gens and their price difference.


second comment, i guess i should say they don't get sued enough to really make a impact in what they do. if price was such a issue with headers like gas is then why dont people sue kooks and ARH for price gouging ? because there is a certain percentage where companies want to make profit and still have it affordable to people. sure there are people who cant afford the price, same thing with Ipods, so thats why they get the song MP3 player. kooks has to pay taxes, american government regulations, insurance, testing, etc and still wants make that profit. OBX does not have this. simple as that. my point is that kooks headers is a "luxury" item. its not made to be afford to everyone. a 300 dollar laptop is made to be afford, not a 2500 mac book pro.

I agree with you about them not getting sued enough.
I know at the end of the day, the companies need to make a profit. (and I dont care for ipods or i-anything for that matter...too much of a blind zombie mass effect. not saying the technology isn't great, just that its not for me).

but lets be honest, look at how many people are running kooks and ARH headers. so the price isn't that bad is it ? look at how much cam kits cost. about the same. they run about the same value.

I agree wholeheartedly at the numbers. but the other side of that argument is that of the options available (excluding OBX), kooks is one of the lower priced arrangements.

And there are dozens (probably hundreds) of threads on here asking "what headers are the best". Most everyone supports what they have and there will always be people who "follow the leader". I've seen it happen hundreds of times on here. Thats one of the good (and sometimes bad) things about forums.
there will always be a couple issues with any product (100% reliablity/quality is unattainable), but by and by, just think about how many lurkers/guests view this site just to see what other people are putting on their cars.

and cam kits... we'll discuss that later...lol

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Well..I guess this proves..even if I stay out a thread..the subject still causes an argument.

At the end of the day this is pretty simple. If you don't want to spend money on American made headers, and lowest price is the biggest factor in your header decison, then yes you have options, including overseas copies. It's your money, do what you want and have fun modding your car. I am not here to hurt anyone's feelings, make them feel bad about what they bought, or whatever. However everything with this is not happy unicorns jumping over rainbows. The reason they are cheap is they took another companies design, and copied it using inferior materials and workmanship overseas. No matter how cheap they are, that fact is unavoidable and the 800lbs gorilla in every one of these threads.

So with that in mind...

A.) Don't expect to go parading around the forums about how great they are, and how you saved so much money and not expect a response. The people who already have a set, or are only gonna spend $500 willl agree with you, and cheer you on for thumbing your nose at the chinese header haters. However there are also a lot of people pay good money for a premium product, and do not take kindly to having people brag about how great a cheap knock off is. This is not limited to headers, pretty much every retail market I know on, it is frowned upon to support knockoffs or brag about purchasing them. It's like going an a sunglass forum and bragging about your fake Oakley's.

B.) In terms of build quality, they are not the same as the premium headers they copies..or even in the ball park. We are talking exhaust pipe here..so it is pretty easy for the stuff to be functional and do the job...but that does not mean the quality is there. It's easy to see shiny headers and think "OMGZ..pretty!", but if you know what you are looking at..there is a big difference.

I will be at Camaro5 fest and have both brands on display. I had both at Camaro5fest last year, and will this year too..and lets say after seeing both..no one was asking me about how to get the cheaper set.

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Lastly, there is no "Camaro Tax". Maybe we want to have an ego trip and think that somehow the Camaro is such a hot market that vendors can charge whatever they want and the poor customer gets screwed. The reality is, this is the most competitive market in the aftermarket right now. There are competitors crawling all over one another to get business. Additionally, with most of this happening online, most customers don't care as much about service, and often let whoever has the absolute lowest price dictate who they buy from. If you are a customer, you have a lot more pricing leverage owning a Camaro, which is made in pretty high numbers than say...a SSR, Challenger, or LT1 Camaro where there are many less options parts wise, and fewer vendors fighting for your business.

There are 5 premium header companies out there, and pretty much all of their pricing is within $300 of one another. These are VERY competitive companies, and if one could undercut the other by $400 and run a profitable business, it would happen. The problem is, you can't drop prices that much unless you off shore production..and normally you take a quality and reputation hit. People can buy a $300 set of no name knock offs on ebay..and if the hardware sucks, and they need to be hammered to fit..whatever..it's what you expect. Buy budget name brand headers made in China, and there is a fit issue, not only do you expect a higher level of service than you would the ebay headers..but now there is also the reputation hit from customers being suspicious some of your products are made overseas.

Additionally..do some price research. Kooks headers, and catted connection pipes for a Camaro run $1349 (minimum advertised price).

The same set up for each vehicle below runs-

Dodge Challenger- $1500
Pontiac G8- $1349
LS1 4th Gen Camaro- $1500
C6 Corvette- $1700
Shelby Mustang- $1400
2005-2010 Mustang GT- $1300 (these are much smaller headers).

Additionally in terms of premium, US made headers, Kooks is on the cheaper end. The bottom line is if you want to design your own header in the US, with as much US sourced material as possible, and make it in a non job shop/contract environment (meaning all you make is exhaust, not like lawn furniture when things are slow), then these prices are what you have to charge.

which companies are you considering as the 5 premium ones? jw (you can pm if you would like )
And what would you say about Doug Thorley or Pacesetter headers for the 5th gen that are running for ~$800 right now?

I agree that a $300 china knockoff most likely isnt up to the same quality. (I say most likely, because I don't have two identical cars to install the two different ones into to compare longevity).

I'm not saying that everyone should drop their price to $300.00 for a set of headers. I'm not even saying that anyone should drop their price that low.

What I am saying is that there are (IMO) reputable companies offering the same product (not identical/knockoff) for a lower price.
and I'm not suggesting that the higher priced companies go and lower their prices. (doubt that would work anyway...lol) I just find it odd that two different companies with the same product both claim "quality and reliability" as their strong points are priced a good amount different. Competition is good for us all tho.
The power gains on headers between different companies is negligible (excluding primary sizes).




I'm not knocking anyones choice of mods. as you and many others have said before.



Its your car. Build it how you want.

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

This is a slippery slope. For instance to sell more headers means you have to buy more benders (see what one of those costs), hire more employees, pay more taxes, and so forth. There are other things like most of the header companies I know are always struggling to hire enough welders because there are only so many skilled ones.

And some things are inflexible and not subject to scales of ecomony. For instance, doubling business will not make your cost of labor do down. A header will still take the same time to weld, and the welder will make the same money per hour. The price of stainless steel is inflexible. Additionally, we have a government system that tightens regulations, and removes incentives as a business becomes bigger.

It becomes a game of deminishing returns. Think of it this way. Imagine you own a business, and someone told you they had a plan to double sales. However to double sales, you had to cut your profit margin in half, double your manufactuering staffing, invest $250K in machinery, and find a bigger building. Suddenly double sales becomes a loss.

Lastly throw in that this is a market largely governed by discretionary spending. I know every time gas goes up, or the government threatens to shut down, our sales go down with it. When you add a lot of overhead, that hurts your ability to rightsize to meet demand.

I agree completely on the issues that manufacturers and vendors are facing, but some companies seem to be able to make it work.

[Erik@lashway]

We carry the full line of OBX products...


Most folks on here have probably bought theirs from us. We are a stocking dealer of these products, and stand behind their fit, finish, and performance.

For the price, they cannot be beat. NO they are not made in the US, but for some they are a great fit for their budget!

Erik@Lashway

[Erik@lashway]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

This is a slippery slope. For instance to sell more headers means you have to buy more benders (see what one of those costs), hire more employees, pay more taxes, and so forth. There are other things like most of the header companies I know are always struggling to hire enough welders because there are only so many skilled ones.

And some things are inflexible and not subject to scales of ecomony. For instance, doubling business will not make your cost of labor do down. A header will still take the same time to weld, and the welder will make the same money per hour. The price of stainless steel is inflexible. Additionally, we have a government system that tightens regulations, and removes incentives as a business becomes bigger.

It becomes a game of deminishing returns. Think of it this way. Imagine you own a business, and someone told you they had a plan to double sales. However to double sales, you had to cut your profit margin in half, double your manufactuering staffing, invest $250K in machinery, and find a bigger building. Suddenly double sales becomes a loss.

Lastly throw in that this is a market largely governed by discretionary spending. I know every time gas goes up, or the government threatens to shut down, our sales go down with it. When you add a lot of overhead, that hurts your ability to rightsize to meet demand.

AMEN

[The SwiftChancelor]

People, who gives a crap if someone else wants OBX, ARH, Kooks, SW, MBS, or whatever. Its their right and decision to choose what they want. Its not your problem, if they fail they fail. Most of everyone is happy with whatever headers they chose so let them be happy. I don't ever read threads with people ragging on each other over the air intake they chose. I have Stainless Works' Chinese headers, Stainless Power and they work for me. Unless you read of constant problems with certain headers I would consider them all a good product, American or not.

[Ltdodge]

Originally Posted by The SwiftChancelor

People, who gives a crap if someone else wants OBX, ARH, Kooks, SW, MBS, or whatever. Its their right and decision to choose what they want. Its not your problem, if they fail they fail. Most of everyone is happy with whatever headers they chose so let them be happy. I don't ever read threads with people ragging on each other over the air intake they chose. I have Stainless Works' Chinese headers, Stainless Power and they work for me. Unless you read of constant problems with certain headers I would consider them all a good product, American or not.

[The SwiftChancelor]

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

Lets trade cars

[toml_pa]

I find it interesting that I have yet to see a thread where someone is sharing about their Kooks install and the OBX guys show up to rain on the parade. But mention an OBX install and it's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank MarylandSpeed for their header comparison thread. It was their dyno chart that convinced me to buy OBX headers. The average HP was the same and the few HP and lbs. of torque gains at 3200 RPMs certainly didn't justify another $700.00.



Thanks again MarylandSpeed.

[Avenging Orange]

Originally Posted by ewoolsey

I just wanna clearly state that I did not mean to offend anyone! I said something I shouldn't have said! I'm happy for all you kooks arh and stainless owners! Good for you guys sometime us OBX guys just need a little love

Dont give it a second thought. You offended no one.
Do not be afraid to post your thoughts, ideas, accompishments, etc on a public forum. This has been an issue for as long as I can remember. If you dont follow the leader, you are wrong. I dont recall anywhere in the early stages of this thread that anyone bashed kooks or arh, or stated they saved soooo much money or what an astranomical deal they got. I believe, like most of us, that you stated you were happy with your purchase and even offered help and input to others who purchased headers. Somehow I dont see that as offensive.
Again, enjoy your new toys!

[Ltdodge]

Originally Posted by The SwiftChancelor

Lets trade cars

nope, you have cheap SW chinese headers on your car......

[Mud]

People, who gives a crap

Obviously, quite a few people. The whole point of a forum is for discussion. Many have strong feelings one way or the other.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by LIM3

now how much longer could the high priced brands actually last ? thats a question worth answering. any idea any one ?

I'm putting my first set on my second Camaro. The first only had about 19000 miles on it, but except for the heat discolleration (which I like), there's no reason these wouldn't last a lifetime....what could wear out? I suppose the same could be said about OBX, but one of the posters already made me feel blessed that I made the choice of Kooks. Plus, take a look at the items for sale threads and you'll see used Kooks, American Racing and other headers made in USA selling for around $600-700. I've seen no used OBX headers up for sale so can't say. But, there may never be another problem with another set of OBXs...who knows.

I'm glad the OP is happy with his purchase and that he's making more HP for very little output....good job!

[ss/rs-matt]

Originally Posted by Erik@lashway

We carry the full line of OBX products...


Most folks on here have probably bought theirs from us. We are a stocking dealer of these products, and stand behind their fit, finish, and performance.

For the price, they cannot be beat. NO they are not made in the US, but for some they are a great fit for their budget!

Erik@Lashway

I can testify to this. I asked Erik about all the OBX bashing and he assured me that I would be happy with my headers. I'll admit I was a little worried that i had possibly just wasted $700 but when they arrived all my worries went away. In fact it was my excitement that drove me to start my OBX thread so I could share my excellent experience not only with Lashway Motorsports but with my new OBX's. I wanted to disprove all the negitive comments and nonsense with pictures and my first hand experience. When I first opened the box, I remember thinking, "what the hell is everyone talking about??" "these things are awesome!". Then I realized that most of the people who post negative comments in these OBX threads have never even seen a OBX header and have absolutely no clue what they are taking about...period. However, it is the internet and that makes EVERYONE an expert...lol.

Thanks again Erik for an awesome part and your standing behind what you sell.
Matt

[Avenging Orange]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

I'm putting my first set on my second Camaro. The first only had about 19000 miles on it, but except for the heat discolleration (which I like), there's no reason these wouldn't last a lifetime....what could wear out? I suppose the same could be said about OBX, but one of the posters already made me feel blessed that I made the choice of Kooks. Plus, take a look at the items for sale threads and you'll see used Kooks, American Racing and other headers made in USA selling for around $600-700. I've seen no used OBX headers up for sale so can't say. But, there may never be another problem with another set of OBXs...who knows.

I'm glad the OP is happy with his purchase and that he's making more HP for very little output....good job!

Haha! Ok, you walked into this one.....and I cant resist.
Maybe there is a reason there so may kooks/arh for sale.....
Everybody loves their OBX so much they wont part with em.

[Badbubba]

I can not control where GM sources it parts. But I can control where I source my parts.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by Badbubba

I can not control where GM sources it parts. But I can control where I source my parts.

An important thing to remember too is GM has a very stringent quality control process for the parts it uses. They sell cars with 100,000 mile warranties, and more importantly, if some car parts fail, people die. Because of that, parts are scrutinized very highly for design flaws, and potential manufacturing defects. So even if GM uses parts that are made overseas, they are made to much higher standard than most aftermarket parts..even US made ones.

[The SwiftChancelor]

Maybe OBX is made to a much higher standard as well. Let the downgrading of others personal choice go on. This topic will never be resolved but at least it gives us all something to continuously argue about. :BS:

[toml_pa]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

An important thing to remember too is GM has a very stringent quality control process for the parts it uses. They sell cars with 100,000 mile warranties, and more importantly, if some car parts fail, people die. Because of that, parts are scrutinized very highly for design flaws, and potential manufacturing defects. So even if GM uses parts that are made overseas, they are made to much higher standard than most aftermarket parts..even US made ones.

So what are you really saying here Maryland? That it is ok to outsource parts overseas and take US jobs as long as they "are scrutinized very highly for design flaws" and "made to much higher standard than most"? I suppose most would include OBX headers?

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by toml_pa

So what are you really saying here Maryland? That it is ok to outsource parts overseas and take US jobs as long as they "are scrutinized very highly for design flaws" and "made to much higher standard than most"? I suppose most would include OBX headers?

What I am saying is the "Well GM uses parts made in China" argument is not relevent because those suppliers design their own stuff, are often US owned, and are held to very high standard. There is a big difference between a US company designing their stuff in the US, and then making the stuff overseas (often in a US owned...managed factory) and what is going on with the ebay header stuff. If a company is willing to steal someone else's design, you can't expect everything else is held to any kind of standard.

My argument here has never been about Walmart stuff being made in China. Unfortunatly, most American's are not willing to pay what it would cost to make their $10 Walmart clock radio in the US. It is more rooted in the wrongness of people buying blatent, inferior knock offs and acting like they got a deal. No sponsor here can thrive if the second that they made a product, there was a Chinese knock off on the market at a 3rd the price.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by The SwiftChancelor

Maybe OBX is made to a much higher standard as well. Let the downgrading of others personal choice go on. This topic will never be resolved but at least it gives us all something to continuously argue about. :BS:

Maybe there are martians too? Maybe the world is flat? Anything is possible. However I have side by side pictures proving that they are not made to an acceptable standard for any US based company. The only thing they are good, or best at is price. Everything else is a "live with it" compromise.

An no, these arguments will never get resolved. But notice..they almost always start the second someone wants to post how great their knock off headers are...looking for peer afirmation or to stick it to the man I guess. I stayed out of it, and it still turned into a crap fest. You are just a guilty yourself of feeding in the arguments because you are in every thread on the other side of the argument. It is like political threads..they will always be what they are.

[Sundogno1]

so if you took OBX headers had them ceramic coated in and out they would last and look good.