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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-28-2012, 09:55 AM   #51
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Chromoly???

The Camaro already uses a lot of high strength steel in it's construction.

Chromoly steel wouldn't be used to replace body panels in a conventional sense. Unless you are proposing removing all the current structure and building it around a space frame or roll cage.......................hmmmmmmmmm is that where you are going??? I can work with that.

Also keep in mind that high strength steels are progressively harder to stamp meaning they don't lend themselves to exterior panels, mainly structure.

Camaro is heavy because it's big, not because GM cheaped out on low mass materials i.e. high strength steels.
Number 3, I would agree, heavy because it's big and that mostly can't be changed with the current architecture without resorting to radical changes that equal too much cost. I think if they keep it down around 3,850 and use around 500HP they can build a very respectable Z/28 for the 5th gen. A 6th gen version will be the really lighter one and I see a need for a current gen. model Z/28.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Chromoly???

The Camaro already uses a lot of high strength steel in it's construction.

Chromoly steel wouldn't be used to replace body panels in a conventional sense. Unless you are proposing removing all the current structure and building it around a space frame or roll cage.......................hmmmmmmmmm is that where you are going??? I can work with that.

Also keep in mind that high strength steels are progressively harder to stamp meaning they don't lend themselves to exterior panels, mainly structure.

Camaro is heavy because it's big, not because GM cheaped out on low mass materials i.e. high strength steels.
who said body panels? lol more referring to suspension and frame peices.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #53
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who said body panels? lol more referring to suspension and frame peices.
There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:49 PM   #54
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There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.
How much weight would these control arms save at each corner?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:15 PM   #55
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How much weight would these control arms save at each corner?
I am guessing but maybe 20 pounds per corner but that is only a guess. Did I mention that was a guess?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:52 PM   #56
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Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.
I'm more for chromoly because of it's strength with being lower weight then regular steel. my 4th gen I installed boxed subframe connectors made out of the stuff, pan hard rod, and torque arm. I had a chromoly K-member sitting in the garage when I blew the engine. I'm a believer in strength. . .lol. one reason I wouldn't go with an aluminum drive shaft when moding.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #58
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Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?
who said they weren't planning on making one? are you in the decision making process behind closed doors?

The signs point to said mythical Z28 becoming a reality. you just need to look around for them.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:11 PM   #59
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Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?
Whoa!.......I know General Lee is not related to General Motors.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #60
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Whoa!.......I know General Lee is not related to General Motors.
Wasn't General Lee related to some hillbillies that drove a Dodge? Certainly shouldn't have anything to do with GM or we'd have heard about him by now.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:33 AM   #61
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there were no SS's in the second gens. . ..

Wrong! Chevy did produce a 2nd gen SS with a big block.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:38 AM   #62
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so point and laugh. how many years was the SS big blocks available. . .huh? that would be 3 from an 11 year run for the second gens. a small blip on the radar screen. after that last 1972 SS rolled off the line how many years before an SS reappeared? didn't happen for over 20 years.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:49 AM   #63
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so point and laugh. how many years was the SS big blocks available. . .huh? that would be 3 from an 11 year run for the second gens. a small blip on the radar screen. after that last 1972 SS rolled off the line how many years before an SS reappeared? didn't happen for over 20 years.
You said they didn't produce a SS in the 2nd gen. You were wrong. They only made a Z/28 for 3 years as a 1st gen, is that somehow irrelevant too now? What if they only made 1 SS as 2nd gen? They only made 2 ZL1 Corvettes as a C3 and nobody ignores the significance of those.

I was simply pointing out your error. Relax. I make mistakes every day.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #64
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Oh and 70-81 is a 12 year run, not 11. Use your fingers and toes or an abacus next time if you want to count accurately.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:53 AM   #65
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There really is no frame on the Camaro. It is BFI or Body Frame Integral construction. So what is frame is basically stamped panels in the underbody. And in this area there is quite a bit of high strength (read ligher weight) steel used on most modern cars.

Chassis is either stamped steel or aluminium castings. The Corvette has the aluminium. Camaro I believe relys on stamped steel. You could convert those to chromoly tubes which might reduce weight, but I think I'd just jump to aluminium.

But you could use Chromoly tube for upper and lower control arms.

I was hoping this thread would at least at some point draw either a yes/no for a gen5 Z from the father or another official source. Obviously our timetable is not GM's timetable for releasing this info, but I will still keep my fingers crossed. I have a 2010 SS and at some point I will change over to a 1LE, ZL1 or Z28. More options the merrier.

Thanks for the info Number 3. Is the BFI on the base/GS vette steel and then it changes over entirely to aluminum on the Z06? Makes me wonder what the Camaro would drop in lbs if the same structure items were converted to aluminum. The cost might not be worth the weight savings though...hmm.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #66
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Just wondering why we are talking about Z/28's when GM is not planning on making one?
Are we just dreaming and wishing?
Troll?
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:00 PM   #67
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I am guessing but maybe 20 pounds per corner but that is only a guess. Did I mention that was a guess?
Wow, that would be well worth it.

Anyone have information on the cost of something like this were it available?
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:12 PM   #68
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I was hoping this thread would at least at some point draw either a yes/no for a gen5 Z from the father or another official source. Obviously our timetable is not GM's timetable for releasing this info, but I will still keep my fingers crossed. I have a 2010 SS and at some point I will change over to a 1LE, ZL1 or Z28. More options the merrier.

Thanks for the info Number 3. Is the BFI on the base/GS vette steel and then it changes over entirely to aluminum on the Z06? Makes me wonder what the Camaro would drop in lbs if the same structure items were converted to aluminum. The cost might not be worth the weight savings though...hmm.
The Vette "space frame" actually has the two hydroformed tubes or rails that some might look at as a frame. It is actually just part of the body structure. For the Z06, those rails and the rest of the space frame were changed to aluminum. One of my proudest accomplishments was leading the team that did that engineering work for the Z06. It saved well over 100 pounds but was quite expensive. Aluminum is lighter than steel and costs a whole bunch more. Can't give you the prices though.

And converting to aluminum isn't as easy as just changing materials. Aluminum doesn't have the same strength so in some cases you may have to look at thicker panels. Look at the Auid A8 for example. A great example of an all aluminum body structure and yet it still weights well over 4,000 pounds. A very large car yes, but not a miracle of weight loss either.

So in the right applications you can get some nice saving with aluminum. An engine block alone can save 100 pounds or so.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #69
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The Vette "space frame" actually has the two hydroformed tubes or rails that some might look at as a frame. It is actually just part of the body structure. For the Z06, those rails and the rest of the space frame were changed to aluminum. One of my proudest accomplishments was leading the team that did that engineering work for the Z06. It saved well over 100 pounds but was quite expensive. Aluminum is lighter than steel and costs a whole bunch more. Can't give you the prices though.

And converting to aluminum isn't as easy as just changing materials. Aluminum doesn't have the same strength so in some cases you may have to look at thicker panels. Look at the Auid A8 for example. A great example of an all aluminum body structure and yet it still weights well over 4,000 pounds. A very large car yes, but not a miracle of weight loss either.

So in the right applications you can get some nice saving with aluminum. An engine block alone can save 100 pounds or so.
10-4....that makes sense. Considering the cost, basically aluminum is better put to use on fat, bulkier items such as a block, vs longer/thinner items (floor pans) that are subject to twisting, etc. Looks like aluminum is roughly 4-5 time the price of steel.

That's cool about doing the work on the Z06...wish I could hover over your shoulder for a day!
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #70
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You said they didn't produce a SS in the 2nd gen. You were wrong. They only made a Z/28 for 3 years as a 1st gen, is that somehow irrelevant too now? What if they only made 1 SS as 2nd gen? They only made 2 ZL1 Corvettes as a C3 and nobody ignores the significance of those.

I was simply pointing out your error. Relax. I make mistakes every day.
considering how long the first gen was made. yea it is. so what if I'm wrong. you're the one being an ass. If you hadn't been an ass maybe I would have just said ok. yea I'm wrong. but instead you wanted to be an ass. either way doesn't change the fact the Z28 was until the 5th gen always part of the camaro line up. the SS has not.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:34 PM   #71
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Oh and 70-81 is a 12 year run, not 11. Use your fingers and toes or an abacus next time if you want to count accurately.
again being an ass. typical internet. for all you know I fat fingered it and didn't see my mistake. one digit off. but you want to be an ass hide behind your keyboard. fine with me. easily ignored from now on.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:34 PM   #72
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10-4....that makes sense. Considering the cost, basically aluminum is better put to use on fat, bulkier items such as a block, vs longer/thinner items (floor pans) that are subject to twisting, etc. Looks like aluminum is roughly 4-5 time the price of steel.

That's cool about doing the work on the Z06...wish I could hover over your shoulder for a day!
I'd think that aluminum or carbon fiber would work well in any nonstressed part; fenders (front only), doors, trunk lid...
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:13 PM   #73
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again being an ass. typical internet. for all you know I fat fingered it and didn't see my mistake. one digit off. but you want to be an ass hide behind your keyboard. fine with me. easily ignored from now on.
Just one more thing, THANK YOU for your service!
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:27 PM   #74
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Troll?
I'm not a troll, I'm a camaro guy.
I'm just wondering why you guys are so dedicated and spend so much time and effort discussing a car that doesn't exist?
A Z/28 would be cool, but the ZL1 is the king of the hill.
Have all of you guys owned a Z/28 before, and want to re-live the past?
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:33 PM   #75
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I'm not a troll, I'm a camaro guy. ok
I'm just wondering why you guys are so dedicated and spend so much time and effort discussing a car that doesn't exist? yet
A Z/28 would be cool, but the ZL1 is the king of the hill. agree
Have all of you guys owned a Z/28 before, and want to re-live the past? no
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