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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 06-20-2012, 09:18 PM   #1601
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I think it could best all the numbers. Not by much but better them all.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #1602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
What is shows is you don't need fancy stuff to go really fast. Let's get the Z/28 built as follows:

ZL1 driveline with 1LE gearing
ZL1 brakes
Square wheel and tire setup 305/30/19 on 19 by 10.5s (yes we know what this does to the 1LE gearing)
LS3
ZL1 Carbon with wicker rear spoiler as shown at SEMA
ZL1 front under car aero
Cheapest struts and coils money can buy because we'll take it all off anyway and replace it with PEDDERS
L/28 Fascia and badges
$44,995 MSRP

Voila! Zeeeee 28. Hey Camaro TEAM -- Build it NOW!

We will handle the engine on our own.
I still want the LS7.
And I want ALL the ZL1 aero with the Hot Wheels hood.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:39 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I still want the LS7.
And I want ALL the ZL1 aero with the Hot Wheels hood.
Zeeee 28 with LS7 and Hot Wheels Hood $59,995

Zeeee 28 with LS7 $45,995

Zeeee 28 with LS7 dry sump with the tank in the trunk by the right tail light and full Pedders from the factory track ready and the Hot Wheels Hood $54,995

They could put the LS3 Z into production next week with 20's because I'll bet your life they already have a Z/28 fascia, hood and badges ready and waiting for an OK.

ZL1 driveline with 1LE gearing
ZL1 brakes
Square wheel and tire setup 305/30/19 on 19 by 10.5s (yes we know what this does to the 1LE gearing)
LS3
ZL1 Carbon with wicker rear spoiler as shown at SEMA
ZL1 front under car aero
Cheapest struts and coils money can buy because we'll take it all off anyway and replace it with PEDDERS
L/28 Fascia and badges
$44,995 MSRP
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #1604
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IMO, the Z28 shouldn't use the LS3. It would be more like an SS trim package instead of the legend we all want. Plus, if 426 HP is good, 505 HP is better.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #1605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Zeeee 28 with LS7 and Hot Wheels Hood $59,995

Zeeee 28 with LS7 $45,995

Zeeee 28 with LS7 dry sump with the tank in the trunk by the right tail light and full Pedders from the factory track ready and the Hot Wheels Hood $54,995

They could put the LS3 Z into production next week with 20's because I'll bet your life they already have a Z/28 fascia, hood and badges ready and waiting for an OK.

ZL1 driveline with 1LE gearing
ZL1 brakes
Square wheel and tire setup 305/30/19 on 19 by 10.5s (yes we know what this does to the 1LE gearing)
LS3
ZL1 Carbon with wicker rear spoiler as shown at SEMA
ZL1 front under car aero
Cheapest struts and coils money can buy because we'll take it all off anyway and replace it with PEDDERS
L/28 Fascia and badges
$44,995 MSRP
Your getting my attention. I must say that HW hood must be made from unobtanium! But I like it so much. Plus it can work like the ZL1 hood by affecting the aero.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:42 PM   #1606
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To save $$$ and time they should use the ZL1 fascia and aero for the Z28. Change the hood (Hot Wheels of course), put brake ducting in where the driving lights are and add a different grill while blacking-out the inside area of the headlight/grill opening. Also blackout the concaved tailight area. That way it will not infringe upon the look of the ZL1.

Last edited by 2cnd chance; 06-21-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #1607
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The hand built LS7 is too expensive to be used in a Camaro

That's why GM used the lower cost, mass produced, LSA in the ZL1.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:52 PM   #1608
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The hand built LS7 is too expensive to be used in a Camaro

That's why GM used the lower cost, mass produced, LSA in the ZL1.

A crate LS7 is $3k more than a crate LSA. I don't know if that would be the difference for a production engine going in a car or if a crate LS7 is hand build like the ones going in the Z06, but if it is $3k isn't that much more.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:33 PM   #1609
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The hand built LS7 is too expensive to be used in a Camaro

That's why GM used the lower cost, mass produced, LSA in the ZL1.
The LS7 will not be in the C7 or the 6th Gen. I think it will continue to be built as a crate motor. Considering the development and validation costs have all been amortized IF the Camaro TEAM wants the LS7 for a farewell 5th Gen I don't think cost would be a barrier.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:27 PM   #1610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
A crate LS7 is $3k more than a crate LSA. I don't know if that would be the difference for a production engine going in a car or if a crate LS7 is hand build like the ones going in the Z06, but if it is $3k isn't that much more.
The difference would probably be maintained, more or less. Figure the price of a crate engine reflects what GM feels its value to the customer is (afterall, they won't be offering a better engine 'at cost')

And I thought that the LSA and LS7 were both roughly 15 grand as crate engines?
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:05 PM   #1611
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The difference would probably be maintained, more or less. Figure the price of a crate engine reflects what GM feels its value to the customer is (afterall, they won't be offering a better engine 'at cost')

And I thought that the LSA and LS7 were both roughly 15 grand as crate engines?
LSA was around $13k and LS7 was around $16k
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:08 PM   #1612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarFan View Post
The hand built LS7 is too expensive to be used in a Camaro

That's why GM used the lower cost, mass produced, LSA in the ZL1.
Yeah, a couple grand is too much when your spending $40-$50K.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:24 PM   #1613
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Yeah, a couple grand is too much when your spending $40-$50K.
Plus, that price bump will put the car between the 1LE and ZL1.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:05 PM   #1614
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If I could bet on it, Id bet there will be no Z-28 made for 5th Gens. For 2013, they brought out the 1LE which is similar to what a Z-28 would be. A track car. IF and a HUGE IF and wishful thinking if they were to bring this car out at 5th Gen, it'd HAVE TO BE a 2013 model. THey'll discontinue 5th gens somewhere around early to mid 2014 to prepare for the all new 2015 6th Gen which Im sure you'll be able to allocate in 2nd QTR of the yr?
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:10 PM   #1615
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If I could bet on it, Id bet there will be no Z-28 made for 5th Gens. For 2013, they brought out the 1LE which is similar to what a Z-28 would be. A track car. IF and a HUGE IF and wishful thinking if they were to bring this car out at 5th Gen, it'd HAVE TO BE a 2013 model. THey'll discontinue 5th gens somewhere around early to mid 2014 to prepare for the all new 2015 6th Gen which Im sure you'll be able to allocate in 2nd QTR of the yr?
No one from GM has said that the sixth gen will start with the 2015 model year. If sales increase or stay this successful, why wouldn't they squeeze a couple extra years out of this body style? It's a gamble if they wait, but if they do and it pays off that's a lot of profit and money saved on development. It's also more time to make the sixth gen that giant leap forward that everyone is expecting.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:24 PM   #1616
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There is more than just the difference in cost per engine as reflected in the crate engine prices.

GM would also need to certify the LS7 into a Camaro. There will be internal development and engineering costs that would ultimately passed on to the consumer in MSRP.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:03 PM   #1617
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Originally Posted by KarFan View Post
There is more than just the difference in cost per engine as reflected in the crate engine prices.

GM would also need to certify the LS7 into a Camaro. There will be internal development and engineering costs that would ultimately passed on to the consumer in MSRP.

The Camaro's development cost have to be "more than paid for" by now. So the cost is the small R&D needed to get the LS7 in the Camaro, all the other bits are already in it. BUILD IT!!!
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:41 PM   #1618
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Originally Posted by KarFan View Post
There is more than just the difference in cost per engine as reflected in the crate engine prices.

GM would also need to certify the LS7 into a Camaro. There will be internal development and engineering costs that would ultimately passed on to the consumer in MSRP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
The Camaro's development cost have to be "more than paid for" by now. So the cost is the small R&D needed to get the LS7 in the Camaro, all the other bits are already in it. BUILD IT!!!
Validation of the LS7 in the 5th Gen may be minimal at this time.

1. The Camaro TEAM may have already looked at this as they have shown two 5th Gens with LS7 power. I think the real issue with the LS7 is itdoes not play well with the EPA and CAFE.

2. The LS7 has less power than the ZL1 current blower motor. In that sense, the driveline has already been validated.

The LS7 is a want to project for the Camaro TEAM. If they decide they want to build it it could be rolled out very quickly.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:49 PM   #1619
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Validation of the LS7 in the 5th Gen may be minimal at this time.

1. The Camaro TEAM may have already looked at this as they have shown two 5th Gens with LS7 power. I think the real issue with the LS7 is itdoes not play well with the EPA and CAFE.

2. The LS7 has less power than the ZL1 current blower motor. In that sense, the driveline has already been validated.

The LS7 is a want to project for the Camaro TEAM. If they decide they want to build it it could be rolled out very quickly.
What makes you say that the LS7 is a "want to" for the Camaro team? That's a pretty strong statement and one that could inject some much needed hope into the Z28 clan.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #1620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
The Camaro's development cost have to be "more than paid for" by now. So the cost is the small R&D needed to get the LS7 in the Camaro, all the other bits are already in it. BUILD IT!!!
Camaro costs? Yes
Camaro with LS7? No

Anything thats done has to be profitable on its own. So whatever cost is incured by developing a Z28 must therefore be passed onto the customer. If you borrow the tranny, diff, and axles from the ZL1 you don't really need to do development work new ones -provided you use a less powerful engine. But that said, a new engine (for that application) will still me new emissions testing. That new engine will require a new suspension (though that would still need to happen with a Z28 anyway). Chances are they'd also have to redo at least some of the safety testing as well because of the change in vehicle weight and/or ride height. And of course, there's the R&D work required to get all the bits & pieces of the car to feel right. Can it be done at relatively low cost? Sure. But thats only the begining of the economics of doing the car.

They then have to see how many more sales it would bring in, and how many will be poached from the SS & ZL1. If the margin is the same or higher on the Z28 than the other two, poaching won't matter. If it isn't, the added sales have to then offset that loss. GM knows how to compile such data ... the question is which side of the ledger things end up on.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #1621
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No one from GM has said that the sixth gen will start with the 2015 model year. If sales increase or stay this successful, why wouldn't they squeeze a couple extra years out of this body style? It's a gamble if they wait, but if they do and it pays off that's a lot of profit and money saved on development. It's also more time to make the sixth gen that giant leap forward that everyone is expecting.
What models do you know of have lasted longer than 4-5 yrs without overhauls to the body? I dont know any off hand EXCEPT for the truck line. Cars are changed quicker because more are sold and probably the fact that consumers ALWAYS want something new. They're going to the Alpha platform and Im pretty sure R&D is already in the works on this being built. Next yr or yr after, I'm pretty sure we'll see leaks of pics on the new platform. Im not positive that there will be a 6th Gen in 2015, but Id put my money on it that they will produce one for that yr.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:19 AM   #1622
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What models do you know of have lasted longer than 4-5 yrs without overhauls to the body?
How about 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen Camaros? Yes, the fourth gen was killed off but it didn't have the consistent success that the 5th gen is having right now. I'm not saying the fifth gen should go on for 10+ years just maybe 1 or 2 more than what the consensus is saying right now. GM has not even announced yet when they expect to start the 6th gen. How many times, just with the Camaro, have they set a release date and not been able to meet it? The start of the fifth gen, the 5th gen vert, and the ZL1 comes to mind. Right now I believe the 6th gen is a little farther off than what everyone on here is guessing. If its not, I'm fine with that.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:42 AM   #1623
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How about 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen Camaros? Yes, the fourth gen was killed off but it didn't have the consistent success that the 5th gen is having right now. I'm not saying the fifth gen should go on for 10+ years just maybe 1 or 2 more than what the consensus is saying right now. GM has not even announced yet when they expect to start the 6th gen. How many times, just with the Camaro, have they set a release date and not been able to meet it? The start of the fifth gen, the 5th gen vert, and the ZL1 comes to mind. Right now I believe the 6th gen is a little farther off than what everyone on here is guessing. If its not, I'm fine with that.
Ok, sorry.I musunderstood it. Ppl are talking about 6th gen as the next issue of camaro (the alpha platform)that will be different than the 5th Gen when 6th Gen will actually be around 2019 or 2020. Which is what I was referring to. So lets start over....

The Z-28 if made WILL BE on the alpha platform and considered a 5th gen. So if anyone is thinking the Zeta platform Z-28 will arise, they're wishful thinking. If they make a Z-28, it'll have to be on the alpha platform which SHOULD come at 2015. I was thinking platform changes in terms of gens so youre correct. 6th gen is yrs from now and they should have a Z-28 for 5th gens. Just NOT on the Zeta platform.
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:30 AM   #1624
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Ok, sorry.I musunderstood it. Ppl are talking about 6th gen as the next issue of camaro (the alpha platform)that will be different than the 5th Gen when 6th Gen will actually be around 2019 or 2020. Which is what I was referring to. So lets start over....

The Z-28 if made WILL BE on the alpha platform and considered a 5th gen. So if anyone is thinking the Zeta platform Z-28 will arise, they're wishful thinking. If they make a Z-28, it'll have to be on the alpha platform which SHOULD come at 2015. I was thinking platform changes in terms of gens so youre correct. 6th gen is yrs from now and they should have a Z-28 for 5th gens. Just NOT on the Zeta platform.
If they release a new platform it would come with a new drivetrain, suspension and everything else so it would be called the sixth gen. Nice SS by the way. ABM is definitely the best Camaro color for the fifth gen so far.
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:54 AM   #1625
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What makes you say that the LS7 is a "want to" for the Camaro team? That's a pretty strong statement and one that could inject some much needed hope into the Z28 clan.
In the last 12 months a LS7 Camaro was still considered future product. They may have moved on or may still be future product.

Quote:
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Camaro costs? Yes
Camaro with LS7? No

Anything thats done has to be profitable on its own. So whatever cost is incured by developing a Z28 must therefore be passed onto the customer. If you borrow the tranny, diff, and axles from the ZL1 you don't really need to do development work new ones -provided you use a less powerful engine. But that said, a new engine (for that application) will still me new emissions testing. That new engine will require a new suspension (though that would still need to happen with a Z28 anyway). Chances are they'd also have to redo at least some of the safety testing as well because of the change in vehicle weight and/or ride height. And of course, there's the R&D work required to get all the bits & pieces of the car to feel right. Can it be done at relatively low cost? Sure. But thats only the begining of the economics of doing the car.

They then have to see how many more sales it would bring in, and how many will be poached from the SS & ZL1. If the margin is the same or higher on the Z28 than the other two, poaching won't matter. If it isn't, the added sales have to then offset that loss. GM knows how to compile such data ... the question is which side of the ledger things end up on.
Excuse me while I disagree. Ride height is no issue as they could send out any version of the Camaro with the crash test appropriate ride height. If they can't figure it out I'll be happy to help them out, but they don't need my help to get this done.

The LS7 is not an EPA or CAFE friendly engine. This is the single biggest reason you may not see a LS7 Z/28.

Margin will not be an issue. The more ZL1 parts they can use across the 5th Gen range the lower the cost will be per part increasing margins on the 1LE and ZL1.

The Camaro TEAM would love to release a LS7 powered Camaro because there are cash in hand buyers. I could be wrong, but the gotcha issue lies with the EPA. I was already wrong once this year so I am right about this.

TEAM Camaro -- build the LS7 Z/28 for the final model year of the 5th Gen. Send the 5th Gen out in a blaze of glory.

LS9 powered ZL1
LS7 powered Z/28 with 1LE gearing
LS3 powered 1LE
LS3 powered SS


And while I am dreaming, put ZL1 brakes on all of the final production model year 5th Gens. Make the last model year of the 5th Gen the best with the best product and the highest sales volume. Make sure the 5th Gen sales numbers make the other Muscle Car companies
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