Non-BA Amp Install Questions

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by ecko04

Yet using a ZISL is indeed a line ouput converter. You are taking high level to low level, you're converting whether you use the AA-GM44 or ZISL. What the documentation of your amp is asking for are RCA preouts, but there's no way of getting those without 1) changing the radio or 2) using some type of LOC.

I entirely understand what you're doing, but it's the exact same as the PAC without using the large box where you can adjust the levels. That's why I suggested using the two harnesses. I don't think anyone here would suggest cutting the factory wiring.

At the end of the day, there's more than one way to skin a cat...to each his/her own.

The ZISL is not an LOC, it just changes the wires to RCA. I'm running speaker level over RCA.

My HD900/5 amp manual specifically says not to use an LOC but that you need to change wire type to RCA.

What I am doing is not exactly the same thing as using the PAC.

Originally Posted by HD900/5Manual

The

“High” position of the “Input Voltage”

switch selects an input sensitivity range between
800mV and 8V. This is for use with speaker-level
outputs from source units and small amplifiers
found in many OEM (factory-installed) systems.
To use speaker-level sources, splice the speaker
output wires of the source unit or small amplifier
onto a pair of RCA plugs for each input pair or use
the JL Audio ECS Speaker Wire to RCA adaptor
(XB-CLRAIC2-SW). It is not necessary (or
advisable) to use “Line Output Converters” with

your HD900/5.

[ecko04]

Dude even Kicker calls the ZISL a LOC! How do I know? We're their largest dealer in the country.

An adapter does what? CONVERT! It's as simple as that.

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by ecko04

Dude even Kicker calls the ZISL a LOC! How do I know? We're their largest dealer in the country.

An adapter does what? CONVERT! It's as simple as that.

The ZISL only "converts" from a bi-wire (speaker wire) to a coaxial wire (RCA). It doesn't change the signal at all.

Originally Posted by Crutchfield

Overview: The Kicker speaker wire to RCA adapter (ZS-ZISL) allows high level speaker outputs to be connected via RCA plugs, ideal for use with amplifiers that have high-level input capability but no speaker wire input connections. The inputs are set screw terminals and will accept up to 14 gauge wire.

[jeepguy_1980]

I installed my amp yesterday, using the wiring harness that I made. It works almost as I had hoped it would.

I used the solid blue wire on the PAC harness for my remote amp. My amp behaves as follows:

Ignition off / Radio off: Amp off
Ignition off / Radio on: Amp on
Ignition on / Radio off: Amp on (I don't like this)
Ignition on / Radio on: Amp on

I'm not sure why amp turns on even when the radio is off. You can't hear any noise coming from the speakers, but the LED on the amp turns green. I'm not sure if the factory BA system behaves like this or not.

I also ran my front speaker wire back into the harness as I said I would. Right now, my system needs some serious tuning. My Focals should be here on Tuesday, but for now I'm using the factory speakers powered by my amp. The rear speakers are louder than the front, for mids. The sub is overpowering everything. I also need to get some foam tape to wrap the wires in.

I used a 0dB 1kHZ test tone to set the gain for the front and rear channels and a 0dB 50Hz tone to set the sub (all at 75% of max volume). I used 12.3V for the front and rear channels and set the sub to 33.6V. With the same volume setting I was getting about 7-9V in the trunk on the RCA lines.

[Steve@Subthump]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

I'm not sure why amp turns on even when the radio is off. You can't hear any noise coming from the speakers, but the LED on the amp turns green. I'm not sure if the factory BA system behaves like this or not.

Great work. I know that on the ba cars, the amp stays powered on until you open the door or the retained power turns off. It also powers up when you open the doors in order to play the chimes--regardless if the radio is on or not. So that may help explain why it does that.

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by Steve@Subthump

Great work. I know that on the ba cars, the amp stays powered on until you open the door or the retained power turns off. It also powers up when you open the doors in order to play the chimes--regardless if the radio is on or not. So that may help explain why it does that.

That makes sense, and I guess that's a good thing. I'll mark that as one more advantage over tapping into a cigarette lighter.

[jeepguy_1980]

Pics of my install thus far. I'm still waiting on my speakers to come in, so I can finish this off. As you can see, I'm still sporting the stock speakers. Any suggestions or feedback for improvement are always welcome.

Completed Trunk:

Subthump amp mount, could be lined up a tad bit better I think:


Naked, my amp kit didn't include enough black wire but it had excess red wire. This will be a quick easy fix:

Audio Integrations Sub box with JL Audio 10w6v2-D4:


Speaker wiring and stock speakers:

[ecko04]

I figured I would try your method today (using 2 ZISLs), cutting the harness and ditching the huge LOC and all I can say is

The AA-GM44 LOC is genuinely a POS. Using the ZISL I could instantly tell the signal had cleared up significantly. I did have to use 2 pairs of female couplers from the ZISL to my 4-channel RCAs. My sub amp is using the 4 channel pre-outs and the sub now recognizes frequencies that it merely glanced over using the AA-GM44 LOC. Even with the levels turned fully up on the AA-GM44 LOC I had to adjust the gains on the 4-channel amp. With the ZISLs connected, I had to turn the gains back down. The front speakers gain is as low as it can possibly be, while the rear speakers are turned up approximately 1/8.

I wasn't expecting such a drastic change. I don't know how PAC managed to FUBAR this. The harness is great, the LOC is a POS.

On the other hand, using the blue wire on the PAC harness is indeed a remote turn-on. If you look, the blue/white wire is in the PAC harness but has no wire associated with it on the vehicle side. The remote wire has 12v when the radio is on or the vehicle needs to alert you (i.e. leaving the headlight switch in the on position).

With that being said, PAC is exactly what I thought they were...POS. The harness is great, if you modify it. If you plan on using the PAC LOC, prepare to deal with signal quality degradation.

So...

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by ecko04

I figured I would try your method today (using 2 ZISLs), cutting the harness and ditching the huge LOC and all I can say is

The AA-GM44 LOC is genuinely a POS. Using the ZISL I could instantly tell the signal had cleared up significantly. I did have to use 2 pairs of female couplers from the ZISL to my 4-channel RCAs. My sub amp is using the 4 channel pre-outs and the sub now recognizes frequencies that it merely glanced over using the AA-GM44 LOC. Even with the levels turned fully up on the AA-GM44 LOC I had to adjust the gains on the 4-channel amp. With the ZISLs connected, I had to turn the gains back down. The front speakers gain is as low as it can possibly be, while the rear speakers are turned up approximately 1/8.

I wasn't expecting such a drastic change. I don't know how PAC managed to FUBAR this. The harness is great, the LOC is a POS.

On the other hand, using the blue wire on the PAC harness is indeed a remote turn-on. If you look, the blue/white wire is in the PAC harness but has no wire associated with it on the vehicle side. The remote wire has 12v when the radio is on or the vehicle needs to alert you (i.e. leaving the headlight switch in the on position).

With that being said, PAC is exactly what I thought they were...POS. The harness is great, if you modify it. If you plan on using the PAC LOC, prepare to deal with signal quality degradation.

So...

So I was right? (j/k)

I guess it's a good thing I used the blue wire, b/c I'm pretty sure my original intention was to use the blue/white wire. But the blue wire works pretty well.

I too had to use female couplers, which actually caused some problems for me. The couplers were touching and I thought no big deal, it's just the outer portion, which should be ground, but my left rear and left front signals were crossed. It took me an hour of playing with the fader and balance to figure it out.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

So I was right? (j/k)

I guess it's a good thing I used the blue wire, b/c I'm pretty sure my original intention was to use the blue/white wire. But the blue wire works pretty well.

I too had to use female couplers, which actually caused some problems for me. The couplers were touching and I thought no big deal, it's just the outer portion, which should be ground, but my left rear and left front signals were crossed. It took me an hour of playing with the fader and balance to figure it out.

I taped the couplers to solve that little problem. I used Radio Shack couplers since that's all I had access to at the time

I have some Monster couplers on the way that should be here tomorrow so I have the pleasure of ripping it all out and doing it again.

I too had to do the fade and balance "song and dance"

Yes, you were right...

[jeepguy_1980]

I went with these couplers. Probably not any better than the radio shack ones, but it's one less thing to worry about. I did wind up covering mine with tape to solve my issues.

I also want to add, for anyone else considering this method, that I have zero popping when the amp turns on or off.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

I went with these couplers. Probably not any better than the radio shack ones, but it's one less thing to worry about. I did wind up covering mine with tape to solve my issues.

I also want to add, for anyone else considering this method, that I have zero popping when the amp turns on or off.

Nice couplers. I don't know if they work better than Radio Shack, but they certainly look better. I'll be swapping mine today, if it warms up. I don't get any pop either using the method, however I was already proactive in regards to that.

With any install I do, I use either resistors in parallel or a diode and capacitor to drop the remote from 12v to 6v, to eliminate any pop that may present itself.

[jeepguy_1980]

When I tested the remote amp wire on the radio with my DMM, I found that it took a good 20 seconds to slowly bleed down to 0V from 12v after shutting off the car/radio.

[jeepguy_1980]

Got the front doors finished up. The only thing left is the rears, which I might do this weekend.

Speaker Adapters from here:


Crossovers tucked away:



Woofer:

[FNG]

jeepguy_1980, I like your sub enclosure. I've got my amp & JL sub up and running with my BA setup, but I'm looking to find a cleaner looking stealth enclosure... if you don't mind me asking, where'd you pick that up?

[jeepguy_1980]

I got it from AudioIntegrations

I used coupon code "nasioc" for an extra 15% off.

[FNG]

Thanks for the quick reply (and discount code!)... I'm bummed that it doesn't come in a 12" version, but I'm willing to buy a new 10" sub if it's going to allow me to keep more of my trunk.

[ecko04]

updates?

[jeepguy_1980]

Originally Posted by ecko04

updates?

I still haven't done the rears yet, because I kind of regret the speakers I bought for the rear deck. I got Focal PC-130s for the rear, and I don't think they'll be a good fit. I'm starting to think I should have bought some Focal PC-690s instead. I'm afraid the PC-130s won't have enough mid-bass. I asked the question on DIYMA but didn't get a reply.

PC 130

5.25″ Coaxial Kit

SPECIFICATIONS

tweeter
Processed Aluminum inverted dome
max power
120 Watts
nominal power
60 Watts rms
sensitivity
91.6dB
frequency response
80Hz - 20kHz

PC 690

6″ x 9″ Coaxial Kit

SPECIFICATIONS

tweeter
Processed Aluminum inverted dome
max power
160 Watts
nominal power
80 Watts rms
sensitivity
93.6dB
frequency response
55Hz-20kHz

[ecko04]

I probably would go with the PC 690 in the rear deck, especially if you're looking for mid-bass. You're going to need the rear speakers to fill and while I think the PC 130's will do, I think the PC 690's are a better fit.

[jeepguy_1980]

I just finished installing my PC690s in the rear.




I modified the subthump adapters, so that I didn't have to drill into my deck. I just used some of these clips that came with my speakers, and drilled new holes into the adapters.

[ecko04]

I wish I had used dynamat on my rears while I was back there. I have some that i'm installing whenever the weather clears up. I don't wanted to dismantle that deck 1 time though...oh well.

[jeepguy_1980]

You can probably just apply it to the underside, from the trunk.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

You can probably just apply it to the underside, from the trunk.

I could do that but we're "anal retentive" about these things. I just did it the right way today.











I would've used Fatmat, which is a little thinner than Dynamat but I get a really good deal on 20 sq/ft of Dynamat and I didn't have to wait for it to be delivered. Today was a beautiful day so I grabbed a 12 sq/ft kit I had for a few years and a 20 sq/ft kit and let the fun times begin.

In my 07 Scion tC, I used Fatmat throughout the entire vehicle (i.e. pulling out the seats & carpet) and applying from the firewall back. I don't believe i'll be going to that extreme. Then again, i'll never say never.

[Airmaster]

I think this is exactly what I would like to do. I keep reading horror stories about the Scosche and Metra kits and I actually like my stock radio....

With that being the case I have a 5 channel Alpine and a 12" Polk MM Sub left over from my wrecked truck. Gotta install them eventually....

So, Jeepguy (if you're still active on the forums) or anyone with knowledge on this project, what kind of wire harness adapter do you think would work for me to power my 5 channel amplifier which will then power 4 aftermarket speakers and my subwoofer?

Thanks!