2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[tnspd]

Bring the GT500 to the track and I'll post a video of a ZL1 beating it. Any car can be beat on a given day.

[eolson]

I agree, a back to back comparison with good weather and track conditions and an objective professional driver will be awesome. See what the track times are head to head. Then we'll know how the engineers for the GT500 really did with the harmony of the power, suspension upgrades and braking. Can't wait! Erik

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by haulsazzna

Great! When are you bringing it to SAR so I can spank it with my Mustang GT? I'll be sure to have it on video and everything.

I'm sure everyone would be proud of you too.

[IOMZL1]

None of this should really be a surprise to anyone. GT500 faster in the straight line as has been expected since the 650 HP announcement. GT500 not guaranteed in the 11s for every situation/driver because of traction. GT500 has improved handling over the 2012 model as expected. GT500 needs all the cooling it can get (no grille). GT500 has improved brakes that still don't seem quite as good as the ZL1.

Now what we need is a same track/day comparison between ZL1 and GT500 to see what happens on the track. Repeat with different types of tracks. When this happens remember the price of the GT500 with performance pack and the GG tax is moot.

Clearly the GT500 wins on the drag strip in most cases. What will happen at the road course and on the street (not drag racing, comfort and driveability) is not as black and white.

Both great cars, neither is perfect. Both will appeal to people differently. No clear winner will be crowned. And you don't have to buy either - many other options out there including the SLP cars.

I'd bet no matter what GM will respond in some degree with the ZL1 after 2013 and if that happens Ford may decide to do the same.

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

Actually lower gears tend to read LOWER on the dyno believe it or not.

This is truth.

[Vintage-Iron]

I just sold my 2012 5.0 Mustang for a 2012 1SS/RS with a 6 spd manual. BOTH the Chevy and Ford are great cars, both run great...Neither is better than the other its all a matter of personal preference.....Cant we all just get along?....LOL

[xx_ED_xx]

The highlighted section made me laugh, OH WOW ITS SO HUGE. yes dimensionally it is huge, thats why guys would take out that huge 4.6 in the older version of the car and put in a big block chevy.

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

So too the Shelby?

"We spent a few abbreviated laps around Road Atlanta with the Shelby and found ourselves stunned at not only the machine's drivability, but its trackability. Here's a big coupe that tips the scales at over 3,800 pounds with 662 horsepower routed to two wheels. We expected to find ourselves listing port and starboard as the big boat bobbed its way around the track and plowed past apexes as it tried its best to swap ass for nose. This couldn't have been farther from the case.

Ford worked with the suspension gurus at Bilstein to come up with a new driver-adjustable damping system. Push a button on the dash and a solenoid in each damper physically switches the valving inside. The engineers at SVT specifically focused on making the adjustable features in the GT500 as easy to access and utilize as possible, which is also why buyers don't have to fumble through a maze of menus to nix traction control or adjust the electronic power steering from comfort to sport. All very handy. With everything set to sport, the GT500 is remarkably sharp and poised. Come into an apex, dig deep in the brakes, set up your line, pour on the throttle and the car simply heeds your commands with surprisingly little drama. This is a car that's happy to woo you into thinking, "Yeah, I can absolutely handle the world's most powerful production V8." Ford designed the GT500 with a four-stage traction control system, from full on to full off, with Sport mode allowing a little more tail-happy shenanigans without leaving you alone in the room with all that torque. Needless to say, we preferred Sport mode, and found the system to be more than forgiving enough. When we did brush up against the electronic overlords, the gadgetry didn't fully pull the wind from the car's sails. As far as traction control goes, this setup is about as lovable as it gets.

It clearly has the brawn to put our inadequacies on it shoulders and carry us to glory.

The vast expanse of torque from the big V8 is as addicting as it is forgiving. This car doesn't need you to know exactly which gear you need to be in for every apex. It clearly has the brawn to put our inadequacies on it shoulders and carry us to glory. First gear will bolt all the to 60 mph. Second? Well past 100. Third? Well, let's just say we never felt the need to sample fourth during our abbreviated runs around Road Atlanta even with the speedometer licking at 133 mph half-way down the back straight."


And before anyone says it... "lolz, solid axle FTL, lolz" reader comments washing our way. We've said it over, and over, and over again. The Ford suspension crew has worked some sort of miracle with the ox-cart gear in the Mustang, and that magic continues to be present in the GT500. It's almost as if the team delights in flipping conventional wisdom the bird. After flogging the hide from this machine, we're squarely on their side on this one. Why bother changing the recipe when what they have tastes so damn good?

Best bit of the review though is giving props to both the ZL1 and the Shelby for giving Porsche, M and AMG guys something American to cross shop.

[NoWRX]

Originally Posted by a_Username

The worst mag time was 12.6 (definitely an outlier) and all the rest were low 12's, which were similar to the times Road and Track and Car and Drive got out of the 2013 GT500. I'm not arguing rather or not the GT500 is noticeably faster in ideal conditions, I'm just arguing against the fact that some are making it out to be something less than a drivers race between the two in the real world. Make no mistake, both of these cars lined up are going to be a driver's race and not the nuclear bomb some on the other side are wanting it to be.

Sorry, with this new fangled launch control and at least a 5 mph difference in trap speed, it's a bit more than a driver's race, especially from a roll.

[WE485]

Originally Posted by haulsazzna

Great! When are you bringing it to SAR so I can spank it with my Mustang GT? I'll be sure to have it on video and everything.

Another name That's awesome. But Why go thru so much to troll. I applaud your persistence.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

WOW!

Side-by-side, same-day, same road course will be very interesting. Ford is surely nervous. Remember, although there was LOTS of hoopla at Atlanta, no 'Ring times were released after they spent a considerable amount of time over there.

Sounds like the '13 GT500 will NOT match an '11 in autoX, contrary to one of the focal points in Ford's press release earlier last week. And blaming that result on the Torsen? Without it (for those who understand its technology), something as powerful but incorrectly weighted as the GT500 wouldn't stand a chance of putting all that torque to the ground. And with a Torsen, that 9% power loss on the dyno frankly lacks credibility (unless a tune was administered?). GM/SLP used the Torsen in their Firehawk, to great effect.

BTW, best totally STOCK runs for Vettes, as per Corvette Forum:

Z06 = 10.981 @ 128.90
ZR1 = 10.664 @ 132.92

Good luck with those numbers.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by NoWRX

Sorry, with this new fangled launch control and at least a 5 mph difference in trap speed,

I wasn't aware that MPH gets you to the end of the drag strip quicker.

it's a bit more than a driver's race, especially from a roll.

Not denying that but from a dig...

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I wasn't aware that MPH gets you to the end of the drag strip quicker.

...

I wasn`t aware of that either, but I keep hearing the same thing in this thread...

[72MachOne99GT]

Not to butt heads with you, but how exactly does Ford not releasing times indicate that they were nervous?

Ford didn't release ANY performance metrics other than top speed.

(EDIT: unless you're meaning that they don't think they can take the Corvettes...then yes, you're probably right, they don't expect to take them out)

[SSmoked]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Now what we need is a same track/day comparison between ZL1 and GT500 to see what happens on the track. Repeat with different types of tracks

Exactly and until than lets keep the complaining/comparing down to a zero the mustang guys are getting such a lulz out of most of the post coming from this forum about the ZL1 vs GT500.
Lets just accept the fact the shelby is a monster and lived up to its hype, and we now await for a review(s) of both of america's badass muscle cars to battle against one another and the rest of the world.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

What .............. Al O, and Team Camaro are being ripped apart everywhere including on this site! I don't think they did anything wrong or out of line. .

2ndCamaro - thank you for your thoughts and for your passion for all things Camaro....

- I don't think Al or anyone on the team is being ripped apart by anyone of authority.

Yes - there will always be those who don't particularly like certain people or certain brands..... And there are always those who have their opinions. Some opinions are correct - others are well-intended -- and others miss the mark completely.

For anyone to think that one Company will always dominate is folly - it is very unlikely that this will ever happen. (...in terms of affordable performance cars....)

For many years, our 4th gen F-cars dominated....... and frankly, my PERSONAL opinion is that we should have not have unveiled the ZL1 as early as we did - because I'm quite certain that this forced Ford's hand.

(....and the winner in all of this? Both Brands' enthusiasts as we continually improve the product and the performance of said products!)

Now: Some had a fit when Al posted the note that said something along the lines of "You're welcome --" to Mustang enthusiasts.......but he wasn't wrong. I would doubt that Ford would be producing a 650hp Mustang had the Camaro (and Challenger) not made a comeback......

So - let's get the cars on the road - let's allow some journalists to objectively compare the two using the same driver on the same track.....both a road course and a drag strip........and let's see what the results are. Until that happens, all the talk in the world means nothing.....

Regardless - the ZL1 is one heck-of-a-car: Just ask the man or woman who owns one.

Mustang owners don't have to love it......we hope every one of them will....but it's unlikely!


And -- to my Camaro faithful: If you DO go onto other-branded boards - let's show them some class.


...now ....lemme go feed 'Bro Zeke - V 2.0' another Mustang - he's hungry.....

[shank0668]

I like how we actually have some cool Mustang people in here.... The times are certainly nice!

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

I'm referring to 'Ring times. And I seriously doubt their target was either of the Corvette times. Remember, they said their performance metrics were based on the Ford GT, which does have a 'Ring time. So why no report?

They must have missed it, or you can be sure we would have heard about it. They didn't go all the way over there just to slip and slide in the wet, did they? But they did "participate" in the video.

[72MachOne99GT]

I don't think anyone, well anyone with a level head, faults Mr. O. for making comments defending his car. I think it was more the way he promised that the car would outperform the GT500, and then so many of the Camaro faithful absolutely ran with it.

I know this site isn't dedicated to what the Ford guys think, but I believe we can all agree that there was a LOT of dishing out FROM the ZL1 crew/fans toward the Ford/GT500 crew. Now, admittedly, not everyone took it as well as they should have, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the perceived ego of this site, as well as others affiliated with GM products was off the charts.

Now, that the GT500 has outperformed the ZL1 in nearly every single MEASURABLE statistic, I think you're going to see a lot of revenge trash talking.

Either way, I know that to real enthusiasts both of these cars are absolutely awesome, and deserve to be treated with the highest level of respect by their owners/drivers.

I'm looking forward to a decent photo op with a clean ZL1.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by bpmurr

I don't think it will make the Boss look silly. The Shelby looks to be the better car but there is something about a high revving NA V8. I can tell you my 13 Boss is a lot more fun to drive than my 11 GT500 with SVTPP.

Boss. Most FUN car I have ever driven. And I've driven lots.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

2ndCamaro - thank you for your thoughts and for your passion for all things Camaro....

- I don't think Al or anyone on the team is being ripped apart by anyone of authority.

Yes - there will always be those who don't particularly like certain people or certain brands..... And there are always those who have their opinions. Some opinions are correct - others are well-intended -- and others miss the mark completely.

For anyone to think that one Company will always dominate is folly - it is very unlikely that this will ever happen. (...in terms of affordable performance cars....)

For many years, our 4th gen F-cars dominated....... and frankly, my PERSONAL opinion is that we should have not have unveiled the ZL1 as early as we did - because I'm quite certain that this forced Ford's hand.

(....and the winner in all of this? Both Brands' enthusiasts as we continually improve the product and the performance of said products!)

Now: Some had a fit when Al posted the note that said something along the lines of "You're welcome --" to Mustang enthusiasts.......but he wasn't wrong. I would doubt that Ford would be producing a 650hp Mustang had the Camaro (and Challenger) not made a comeback......

So - let's get the cars on the road - let's allow some journalists to objectively compare the two using the same driver on the same track.....both a road course and a drag strip........and let's see what the results are. Until that happens, all the talk in the world means nothing.....

Regardless - the ZL1 is one heck-of-a-car: Just ask the man or woman who owns one.

Mustang owners don't have to love it......we hope every one of them will....but it's unlikely!


And -- to my Camaro faithful: If you DO go onto other-branded boards - let's show them some class.


...now ....lemme go feed 'Bro Zeke' another Mustang - he's hungry.....

golden rule folks.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

I'm referring to 'Ring times. And I seriously doubt their target was either of the Corvette times. Remember, they said their performance metrics were based on the Ford GT, which does have a 'Ring time. So why no report?

They must have missed it, or you can be sure we would have heard about it. They didn't go all the way over there just to slip and slide in the wet, did they? But they did "participate" in the video.

Oh they did fine. But without dominating number why release them at all. The Camaro can have the Ring. We wouldn't want to take that from you nor start an all out war. 2 good cars with slightly different audiences. That's good for everybody.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I wasn't aware that MPH gets you to the end of the drag strip quicker.



Not denying that but from a dig...

I don't know, maybe I'm just tired of reading the whole 'drivers race' line, but it seems to me that we might as well not even consider ANY performance numbers because ultimately everything rolls its way into that line.

If we can't assume equal drivers when comparing these two (or any two) automobiles, then we are wasting our breath.

Personally, I'd rather take a car that has the ability to trap in the low to mid 120's in a race over another that is more commonly in the mid to high teens with the ability to scrape the 120's range.

We might as well just put everything into the hands of computers and simulate every possible combination of situations.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

I'm referring to 'Ring times. And I seriously doubt their target was either of the Corvette times. Remember, they said their performance metrics were based on the Ford GT, which does have a 'Ring time. So why no report?

They must have missed it, or you can be sure we would have heard about it. They didn't go all the way over there just to slip and slide in the wet, did they? But they did "participate" in the video.

I understand that they didn't release ring times, but that doesn't suddenly mean they didn't achieve the times they were hoping for.

Ford didn't release official 1/4 mile times, and it's not because they couldn't perform.
They didn't release brake performance times, or times around a race track.

Instead, they just chose a different route to create hype.

GM nailed it with their portrayal of the Ring time, and Magnetic suspension.
Ford went for the same 'shock' factor with the 650/600/200 thing.

Personally, and this is certainly just my opinion, I don't care WHAT the GT500 runs at any road course. I can't, won't, would be scared to open this thing up on a road course.

It's enough of a handful for me as it is. First gear pulls like a freight train, and from what I've played with in 2nd, it shows no signs of letting up. (that's 80 mph by the way, and it gets there quite quickly)

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I don't know, maybe I'm just tired of reading the whole 'drivers race' line, but it seems to me that we might as well not even consider ANY performance numbers because ultimately everything rolls its way into that line.

If we can't assume equal drivers when comparing these two (or any two) automobiles, then we are wasting our breath.

Personally, I'd rather take a car that has the ability to trap in the low to mid 120's in a race over another that is more commonly in the mid to high teens with the ability to scrape the 120's range.

We might as well just put everything into the hands of computers and simulate every possible combination of situations.

Equal drivers do not always equate to Evan Smiths or NHRAstockers. I'd agree with your trap assessment, but that only tells potential ET and horsepower. It takes a very good driver to reach that potential and not every Joe is going to be able to reach it no matter how much of his life he wastes perfecting his 60ft. The point I'm trying to get across is that the GT500 is not going to slaughter the ZL1 in the real world where drivers are the main indicator of who is going to win. Plus, you have to combine drivers with less than perfect weather conditions with most tracks not being prepped as well at the tracks as you see most of the hero runs made. I'm not denying that the GT500 will eat the ZL1 in a perfect world probably by a good half a second.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

2ndCamaro - thank you for your thoughts and for your passion for all things Camaro....

- I don't think Al or anyone on the team is being ripped apart by anyone of authority.

Yes - there will always be those who don't particularly like certain people or certain brands..... And there are always those who have their opinions. Some opinions are correct - others are well-intended -- and others miss the mark completely.

For anyone to think that one Company will always dominate is folly - it is very unlikely that this will ever happen. (...in terms of affordable performance cars....)

For many years, our 4th gen F-cars dominated....... and frankly, my PERSONAL opinion is that we should have not have unveiled the ZL1 as early as we did - because I'm quite certain that this forced Ford's hand.

(....and the winner in all of this? Both Brands' enthusiasts as we continually improve the product and the performance of said products!)

Now: Some had a fit when Al posted the note that said something along the lines of "You're welcome --" to Mustang enthusiasts.......but he wasn't wrong. I would doubt that Ford would be producing a 650hp Mustang had the Camaro (and Challenger) not made a comeback......

So - let's get the cars on the road - let's allow some journalists to objectively compare the two using the same driver on the same track.....both a road course and a drag strip........and let's see what the results are. Until that happens, all the talk in the world means nothing.....

Regardless - the ZL1 is one heck-of-a-car: Just ask the man or woman who owns one.

Mustang owners don't have to love it......we hope every one of them will....but it's unlikely!


And -- to my Camaro faithful: If you DO go onto other-branded boards - let's show them some class.


...now ....lemme go feed 'Bro Zeke' another Mustang - he's hungry.....

Excellent post... You are right when you say "We all Win"