A Camaro SS is faster than a...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Grabber

To be honest, I will have to find one. Fastest stock I have physically seen in person was my friends 13.3 @ 105 @ Byron in 90+ Degree heat. He ran a 13.31-13.39 about 13 times, each time trapping 103-105. Not bad for a 300HP car.



Maybe with an average driver. They weigh 3500lbs. I imagine that if they had a 6.2L motor, they would weigh a couple of hundred pounds more. I don't really appreciate you telling me that a car I own is fragile, and weak, and has no interior space, as I don't see what you need to bash or speak negatively of a car. I happen to be 6'2, 200lbs, and have PLENTY of space. Not to mention my GT has a somewhat extensive mod list with nearly 70K miles, 50K of which have been in Supercharged form. The biggest reason is the size of the motor. Kind of notice how the 05-10's weigh 3500lbs in stock, base form, and the new 2011+ 5.0's weigh between 3600-3650? That .4 size in the motor adds to that number, as well as the added features. Not because it is a cheap, brittle car that is extremely small inside, but large on the outside.

The fastest ever was an Evan Smith run, which was a 13.2 @ 105.

Also, no options? 500 Watt sound system from the factory, what does the SS have? Fully loaded, they have more options available than you think, and do get up there in weight. My GT with all of the options I have (Power driver, Shaker 1000, Leather) weighs about 3850-3900 with me in it. Not exactly a light car.

First off, I never said anything about YOUR car. I'm talking about S197s in general.

You said "slight mods" which I questioned. Now you're talking about superchargers and "extensive mod list"...so which is it? Because extensive and slight are 2 totally different things.

Another thing, you consider power driver seats, Shaker 1000 audio, and leather to be a lot of options...?? You're joking right?

And at 6'2" and 230 lbs I found the S197 to be too tight to even be comfortable sitting in...let alone driving it. My right knee was on the parking brake and I was cramped with the seat all the way back and at the lowest position.

Now back to your original statement, a non-Coyote S197 will not beat a stock LS3 Camaro. A moderate to heavily modded S197 will be a good race.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

First off, I never said anything about YOUR car. I'm talking about S197s in general.

You said "slight mods" which I questioned. Now you're talking about superchargers and "extensive mod list"...so which is it? Because extensive and slight are 2 totally different things.

Another thing, you consider power driver seats, Shaker 1000 audio, and leather to be a lot of options...?? You're joking right?

And at 6'2" and 230 lbs I found the S197 to be too tight to even be comfortable sitting in...let alone driving it. My right knee was on the parking brake and I was cramped with the seat all the way back and at the lowest position.

Now back to your original statement, a non-Coyote S197 will not beat a stock LS3 Camaro. A moderate to heavily modded S197 will be a good race.

First off, I wasn't the one that posted about any form or type of mod. I was speaking in STOCK form. I was pointing out MY list of mods. Actually, the 05 had limited options. My 07 GT has the Shaker 1K, Heated Seats, dual power, Active Anti-theft, Auto dim+Compass, My color, GT Appearance package, etc.

LMMFAO @ A S/C GT being a good race for a Stock SS. That was a great laugh, thanks for that.

A Bolt on 3V will beat a stock SS. An S/C 3V will do bad things to a stock SS.

Again, DO NOT put words in my mouth. I never said a STOCK 3V will BEAT a stock SS. I said it would be a good race, considering the times they are both Capable of running in the right hands. Bottom 13's for a Stock 3V, and high 12's for a stock SS.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by Coyotekiller

Please stop comparing the awful 4.6 three valve to the SS Camaro. Stock for stock, the Camaro will rip the doors off those cars. The mustangs ran high 13s stock where the Camaro is capable of high 12s low 13s. That's a few car lengths.

Well it's kiind of awful but it still made my past L99 look like s#$#$t in the high end.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by big hammer

hmm an l99 vs 3v gt is alot closer than people like to admit.

hmm an l99 vs 3v gt is alot closer than people like to admit. THANK YOU.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Your 07 is not a "slight bolt-on" car. As far as I'm concerned it's a moderately modified car. If you threw cams in it then you'd have a heavily modded car. I am very well familiar with Mustangs...from the fox to the s197. I've owned a 91 GT, a 95 GT, a 2003 GT, but I stopped short of the S197. IMO it was the lamest car (compared to what was available and what was out there) that Ford ever produced. I test drove a 2010 GT which was selling for $3,000 less than my 10 LS3...and it's obvious which one I chose.

Yea if you throw some slight bolt-ons on the S197 then it will keep up. By "keep up" I mean it won't lose as badly as a bone stock one would. Moderate mods and they'll be door to door with driver ability as the deciding factor. But a moderately modded S197 to a slightly modded LS3 and the SS will be all over it. There is nothing impressive about 05-10 GT. They're plain, boring, and lame. And the top end compared to the LS3 is non-existent. The LS3 at the higher revs just keeps pulling and pulling...and pulling.

After reading this I could be an ass but a true grown up would tell you to call CJ PONY and ask them the fastest runs with the first gen s197. Let's just say lots of bolt on Gen 5 SS don't see mid to high 11s enough said. A fully bolt on S197 will roast lots of SS with bolt ons on the strip it's a fact. There is a reason I got rid of my crappy L99. I see way too many SS with cams still bearly breaking into the 11s with out drag radials. You need to remember lighter cars don't need as much power and are generally quicker. Another example of a bolt on 1st gen S197 with no NOS or blower and the best cam I favored for that motor the 127500 comp cam ummmmm Um. http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustan...lip-10760.html.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Coyotekiller

Almost a full second difference is not close. A few tenths is close. A full second is almost two car lengths

there's not almost a full second between an l99 and a 3v gt. more like 2 tenths.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

After reading this I could be an ass but a true grown up would tell you to call CJ PONY and ask them the fastest runs with the first gen s197. Let's just say lots of bolt on Gen 5 SS don't see mid to high 11s enough said. A fully bolt on S197 will roast lots of SS with bolt ons on the strip it's a fact. There is a reason I got rid of my crappy L99. I see way too many SS with cams still bearly breaking into the 11s with out drag radials. You need to remember lighter cars don't need as much power and are generally quicker. Another example of a bolt on 1st gen S197 with no NOS or blower and the best cam I favored for that motor the 127500 comp cam ummmmm Um. http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustan...lip-10760.html.

cartek ran a 10 second pass with a heads\cam ls3.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Grabber

First off, I wasn't the one that posted about any form or type of mod. I was speaking in STOCK form. I was pointing out MY list of mods. Actually, the 05 had limited options. My 07 GT has the Shaker 1K, Heated Seats, dual power, Active Anti-theft, Auto dim+Compass, My color, GT Appearance package, etc.

LMMFAO @ A S/C GT being a good race for a Stock SS. That was a great laugh, thanks for that.

A Bolt on 3V will beat a stock SS. An S/C 3V will do bad things to a stock SS.

Again, DO NOT put words in my mouth. I never said a STOCK 3V will BEAT a stock SS. I said it would be a good race, considering the times they are both Capable of running in the right hands. Bottom 13's for a Stock 3V, and high 12's for a stock SS.

your average bolt on 3v still wont beat a stock ls3. the ls3 will mph it.

[Coyotekiller]

Originally Posted by Grabber

To be honest, I will have to find one. Fastest stock I have physically seen in person was my friends 13.3 @ 105 @ Byron in 90+ Degree heat. He ran a 13.31-13.39 about 13 times, each time trapping 103-105. Not bad for a 300HP car.



Maybe with an average driver. They weigh 3500lbs. I imagine that if they had a 6.2L motor, they would weigh a couple of hundred pounds more. I don't really appreciate you telling me that a car I own is fragile, and weak, and has no interior space, as I don't see what you need to bash or speak negatively of a car. I happen to be 6'2, 200lbs, and have PLENTY of space. Not to mention my GT has a somewhat extensive mod list with nearly 70K miles, 50K of which have been in Supercharged form. The biggest reason is the size of the motor. Kind of notice how the 05-10's weigh 3500lbs in stock, base form, and the new 2011+ 5.0's weigh between 3600-3650? That .4 size in the motor adds to that number, as well as the added features. Not because it is a cheap, brittle car that is extremely small inside, but large on the outside.

The fastest ever was an Evan Smith run, which was a 13.2 @ 105.

Also, no options? 500 Watt sound system from the factory, what does the SS have? Fully loaded, they have more options available than you think, and do get up there in weight. My GT with all of the options I have (Power driver, Shaker 1000, Leather) weighs about 3850-3900 with me in it. Not exactly a light car.

Actually the biggest weight increase in the engine is the extra two quarts of oil it takes. Other than that, the engine in the 5.0 is surprisingly light, just like the 4.6 3 valve. They are both all aluminum engines after all. The most significant weight increase on the coyote cars is the more comfortable interior and the added features like standard shaker 500 audio systems and standard leather seats, not to mention more insulation. Ive owned both the 07 and an '11.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by big hammer

your average bolt on 3v still wont beat a stock ls3. the ls3 will mph it.

Maybe by 1-2 mph. My buddy with boltons trapped 110 in a 3V GT.




Sent via morse code through a fax machine.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by Coyotekiller

Actually the biggest weight increase in the engine is the extra two quarts of oil it takes. Other than that, the engine in the 5.0 is surprisingly light, just like the 4.6 3 valve. They are both all aluminum engines after all. The most significant weight increase on the coyote cars is the more comfortable interior and the added features like standard shaker 500 audio systems and standard leather seats, not to mention more insulation. Ive owned both the 07 and an '11.

I agree. Engine size still plays a large factor. If anything, 2V GTs were one of the worst mustangs compared to the 3V. They weighed less, and hp gains were terrible even with engine work or F/I applications.


Sent via morse code through a fax machine.

[SixCyl]

Ford model T

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by big hammer

cartek ran a 10 second pass with a heads\cam ls3.

Good my car goes 2 cartek.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by big hammer

cartek ran a 10 second pass with a heads\cam ls3.

Good my car goes 2 cartek.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Grabber

First off, I wasn't the one that posted about any form or type of mod. I was speaking in STOCK form. I was pointing out MY list of mods. Actually, the 05 had limited options. My 07 GT has the Shaker 1K, Heated Seats, dual power, Active Anti-theft, Auto dim+Compass, My color, GT Appearance package, etc.

LMMFAO @ A S/C GT being a good race for a Stock SS. That was a great laugh, thanks for that.

A Bolt on 3V will beat a stock SS. An S/C 3V will do bad things to a stock SS.

Again, DO NOT put words in my mouth. I never said a STOCK 3V will BEAT a stock SS. I said it would be a good race, considering the times they are both Capable of running in the right hands. Bottom 13's for a Stock 3V, and high 12's for a stock SS.

I never put words in your mouth, I simply mistakened you for L99CAMA2011. To that I can apologize for.

However, a bone stock from the factory 3V is not running low 13s. It wouldn't be a good race at all because the Camaro will walk all over it. Look at it this way...the Coyote barely beats the SS, yet the Coyote will straight up demolish the 05-10 GT. So how you think the 3V vs the SS will somehow be a good race is beyond me. The LS# is directly compared to the Coyote...not the 3V. If the 3V was soo comparable to the SS then the Coyote wouldn't even exist.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

After reading this I could be an ass but a true grown up would tell you to call CJ PONY and ask them the fastest runs with the first gen s197. Let's just say lots of bolt on Gen 5 SS don't see mid to high 11s enough said. A fully bolt on S197 will roast lots of SS with bolt ons on the strip it's a fact. There is a reason I got rid of my crappy L99. I see way too many SS with cams still bearly breaking into the 11s with out drag radials. You need to remember lighter cars don't need as much power and are generally quicker. Another example of a bolt on 1st gen S197 with no NOS or blower and the best cam I favored for that motor the 127500 comp cam ummmmm Um. http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustan...ip-10760.html.

Point is an 05-10 GT with slight bolt-ons will not beat a stock LS3. And your "crappy" L99 is still a better car than those GTs...stock for stock. So you call a car crappy and then downgrade to a slower car...?? And then you throw more money on the S197 and compare it to the L99? If you threw the money on the SS then it would've been faster than the Mustang with the same money in it. Well in that case I could trade my LS3 for a Charger R/t...and then I'll throw money on the Charger and talk about how much faster it is...

[Wvallediego]

My supercharged ford festiva is faster.....low curb weight., tesla is faster

There was a similar threat of Camaro Vs. ???? out there already........

[Coyotekiller]

Originally Posted by Grabber

I agree. Engine size still plays a large factor. If anything, 2V GTs were one of the worst mustangs compared to the 3V. They weighed less, and hp gains were terrible even with engine work or F/I applications.


Sent via morse code through a fax machine.

Yeah. My old 2v was weak. Made a nice rumble but that's about all it did. And it was supposedly fast for a 2v gt.

As for the 5.0 engine weight, there might be 20-30 lbs difference between that engine and the 4.6 3v

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I never put words in your mouth, I simply mistakened you for L99CAMA2011. To that I can apologize for.

However, a bone stock from the factory 3V is not running low 13s. It wouldn't be a good race at all because the Camaro will walk all over it. Look at it this way...the Coyote barely beats the SS, yet the Coyote will straight up demolish the 05-10 GT. So how you think the 3V vs the SS will somehow be a good race is beyond me. The LS# is directly compared to the Coyote...not the 3V. If the 3V was soo comparable to the SS then the Coyote wouldn't even exist.

If you would like me to prove you wrong, I'll have my friend send me his 13.3 and 13.4 timeslips of his bone stock 06 and 07 GTs. Evan smith also ran a 13.2 on more than one occasion. I can see te 13.2 being a hero run, but the fact doesn't change many people can run a stock 3V to 13.3-13.5 even in hot weather. Yes, the ls3 is 4-5 tenths faster based with its best times. It's also up over 100HP compared to the old 3V.

I still don't see how you feel a blown 3V is a good race for a stock SS.


Sent via morse code through a fax machine.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I never put words in your mouth, I simply mistakened you for L99CAMA2011. To that I can apologize for.

However, a bone stock from the factory 3V is not running low 13s. It wouldn't be a good race at all because the Camaro will walk all over it. Look at it this way...the Coyote barely beats the SS, yet the Coyote will straight up demolish the 05-10 GT. So how you think the 3V vs the SS will somehow be a good race is beyond me. The LS# is directly compared to the Coyote...not the 3V. If the 3V was soo comparable to the SS then the Coyote wouldn't even exist.

you cant lump all ss camaros together. imo the ls3 is way faster than most l99's. bone stock my neighbours l99 ran around 13.8 @ 104. of course with a good tune it's totally different..

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Grabber

If you would like me to prove you wrong, I'll have my friend send me his 13.3 and 13.4 timeslips of his bone stock 06 and 07 GTs. Evan smith also ran a 13.2 on more than one occasion. I can see te 13.2 being a hero run, but the fact doesn't change many people can run a stock 3V to 13.3-13.5 even in hot weather. Yes, the ls3 is 4-5 tenths faster based with its best times. It's also up over 100HP compared to the old 3V.

I still don't see how you feel a blown 3V is a good race for a stock SS.


Sent via morse code through a fax machine.

The only thing a time slip would prove is that a car ran a specific time at a specific speed. It doesn't prove that the car was bone stock. For that matter, a time slip by itself doesn't even prove exactly what car ran the time.

And I didn't say that a blown 05-10 GT can't beat an LS3...of course a blown S197 should beat a stock SS all day. I was mentioning the differences between a "slight bolt-on" car vs a moderate to heavily modded car. And IMO a slightly modded 05-10 GT will still lose to an SS. Forced induction is in a totally different category as far as I'm concerned.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by big hammer

you cant lump all ss camaros together. imo the ls3 is way faster than most l99's. bone stock my neighbours l99 ran around 13.8 @ 104. of course with a good tune it's totally different..

In my replies I specified the LS3...not the L99. In my reply that you quoted I did mention the LS3 but I can see how I may have sounded a bit ambiguous...sorry for the confusion. But just to clear it up, I'm referring to the LS3.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The only thing a time slip would prove is that a car ran a specific time at a specific speed. It doesn't prove that the car was bone stock. For that matter, a time slip by itself doesn't even prove exactly what car ran the time.

And I didn't say that a blown 05-10 GT can't beat an LS3...of course a blown S197 should beat a stock SS all day. I was mentioning the differences between a "slight bolt-on" car vs a moderate to heavily modded car. And IMO a slightly modded 05-10 GT will still lose to an SS. Forced induction is in a totally different category as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, you're one of those guys huh. Word of friendly advice, get out more dude. There are plenty of drivers out their that can take a car to it's full potential compared to an average driver on the road. I can say the same thing about any car ever produced running any type of a good time, but I am a realist, and I've seen these runs in person in many cars.

Sorry, I was just going back to where you were making those comparisons, and mentioned something along the lines of a Stock S197 is no match, and a heavily modified one would be a good race for a stock SS. Heavily modded = engine work or some form of F/I.

[Coyotekiller]

The better question is, why is an s197 owner on a camaro forum?

[Jamie Mac]

1972 Pinto