Guess What I Found Today?

[95birdible]

They all were contacted last year. But when you have a big ad budget coming from GM why would they do a piece on the top problems? I have media contacts due to my daughter and some side stuff I have going on. All the local media here in the Twin Cities on my phone. I talked to a few of them about it off the record while doing other stories and they just don't seem to be interested. It just won't draw in the numbers they need. It is all about money and ratings. Trust me on this one. Who knows where I want to go with it now. Just need to clear my head and think rationally instead of reactive. I'll have a plan once I can get into the dealer and see what is up their sleeve. I may actually take it to my selling dealer of the original car I got last year. Small town dealer and the GM is a friend of mine.

[evlar]

Good luck, man. In the end this will work out.

[95birdible]

You are correct. In the end it will work out. Just seems that all the time, effort, and getting under peoples skin for the last 9 months went for nothing. Not only am I fighting for myself, I am also putting my ass on the line for all my Camaro brothers and sisters. That is why posts saying "It's a vert deal with it" really piss me off. They do not know what I went through for not only myself, but for all of you.

[cactuseater]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

You are correct. In the end it will work out. Just seems that all the time, effort, and getting under peoples skin for the last 9 months went for nothing. Not only am I fighting for myself, I am also putting my ass on the line for all my Camaro brothers and sisters. That is why posts saying "It's a vert deal with it" really piss me off. They do not know what I went through for not only myself, but for all of you.

Copy that brother. I would have never known about going the route without the sheer numbers we have amassed after your horror story. Both Facebook and this forum are loaded with it. Strength in numbers, and we're not imagining this either.
I'm going on top replacement #2 after the hack job TSB and replacement top failure on #1. The original had "V" marks and a hole right in the middle of the "V" on the passenger side. If it comes back screwed up again, they won't like me anymore either.

[evlar]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

You are correct. In the end it will work out. Just seems that all the time, effort, and getting under peoples skin for the last 9 months went for nothing. Not only am I fighting for myself, I am also putting my ass on the line for all my Camaro brothers and sisters. That is why posts saying "It's a vert deal with it" really piss me off. They do not know what I went through for not only myself, but for all of you.

well, sir -- I certainly appreciate your efforts for us. My top is not bad enough yet to need replacing, but I doubt it's durability for the life of the car. I know when that time cones, my own battle with GM will be easier because of the foundation that you and the others on here have created through much effort.

[Fiveg56]

Tell the dealership they can have it back...then go buy a Mustang...do they have top problems? Sorry to hear you are having new problems.

[usnatclee]

Hey man sorry to hear you are having these issues. I hope you can get them worked out. I almost bought a vert when I bought this, I am glad I didn't. I listened to my gut about not buying a soft top vert.

[95birdible]

Funny you should say Mustang. The other day I went to the Ford dealer in the Camaro, top down, going slow through the lot. Everyone who was outside did the immediate head turn. Got 2 thumbs up from the salesmen.
On a side note, I do not know what I am going to do yet. Mustang and Vette's are out. If I have to go the Lemon route again I am just going to get a refund. I don't want to though. When I take it into the dealer to get documented, I am going to request a field rep come out and a 10/100 on the top and assoctiated mechanisms. Until then, I drive it like it should be.

[99firehawk]

Wow what crap you have had to deal with. Obviously the top mechanism design has not been changed enough to alleviate the stress and pressures on the fabric when folded.
Yours and many other posts is really making me re-think my 2013 ZL1 vert order in place now (which is $75K out the door up here in Canada!). I would love a 2013 427 Corvette vert....but not for another $25K (although I don't hear of Vettes having top issues).

Question for your conversations with the GM Brand Mgr.....did he or others on his staff advise you that the top was redesigned (ie frame and bows) or did they even get specific on the changes? If not, maybe they should reveal this to you as you deserve to know with all you have been through, to prove how they have paid attention to the issue.
In my previous life as an engineer and solutions architect, when customers discovered issues, we always divulged the specific changes so they would feel satisfied on on-going quality and longevity, and not risk loosing them to the competition.

Like you, my 99 Firehawk is on it's original top and still looks great (and I know a lot of readers say ....."so how does this help our current situation"). It sure looks like the cabin space of the new Camaro is much larger requiring a bizarre frame design, and stressing the fabric when in top down configuration. As many have said, with all the time that the Camaro convertible has been in design stage and produced, that GM would allow such a design to be released (sorry for the obvious statement....just boggles the mind).

I won't buy the ZL1 vert if your situation is not resolved. Tell GM execs that when you see them (if they care).

- Glen

[95birdible]

I was not told any specifics as to what was changed on the verts. From my own observations the headliner bracket and screws are different, the top fabric is different, and the mechanism itself is different. The sharper points are now rounded off. Personally, I would not drop 75 large on a ZL1 vert. The jury has not come back with a positive outcome yet. While I still love the car, ask me in August how my top is faring. Today is the 22nd time I have had the top down with 1188 miles on it since I got it on 4/17/12.

[hawk02]

Out of curiosity, how much top down driving do you think you've done with or without the tonneau cover?

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by 99firehawk

Wow what crap you have had to deal with. Obviously the top mechanism design has not been changed enough to alleviate the stress and pressures on the fabric when folded.
Yours and many other posts is really making me re-think my 2013 ZL1 vert order in place now (which is $75K out the door up here in Canada!). I would love a 2013 427 Corvette vert....but not for another $25K (although I don't hear of Vettes having top issues).

Question for your conversations with the GM Brand Mgr.....did he or others on his staff advise you that the top was redesigned (ie frame and bows) or did they even get specific on the changes? If not, maybe they should reveal this to you as you deserve to know with all you have been through, to prove how they have paid attention to the issue.
In my previous life as an engineer and solutions architect, when customers discovered issues, we always divulged the specific changes so they would feel satisfied on on-going quality and longevity, and not risk loosing them to the competition.

Like you, my 99 Firehawk is on it's original top and still looks great (and I know a lot of readers say ....."so how does this help our current situation"). It sure looks like the cabin space of the new Camaro is much larger requiring a bizarre frame design, and stressing the fabric when in top down configuration. As many have said, with all the time that the Camaro convertible has been in design stage and produced, that GM would allow such a design to be released (sorry for the obvious statement....just boggles the mind).

I won't buy the ZL1 vert if your situation is not resolved. Tell GM execs that when you see them (if they care).

- Glen

Glen,
since you are in Canada as well,
I purchased my 2011 vert from wilson niblett in richmond hill.
I have had the 5th bow disease.
I dealt with steve plumley service manager at wilson niblett for the repair.
They were one of the only dealerships I could think of that could possibly have it done(repaired) right as they are used to dealing with high end corvettes and their owners.
very professional and understood all my concerns and was well versed on the tops when I asked.
5th bow replaced.so far so good.I do have a couple of minor rubs marks and have had the latest tsb/recall done to the top at the same time.
My top was repaired on April 14,2012 and I have the top down every chance I get.Knock on wood, no leaks or other issues with the exception of the minor rub marks.
I would really push for assurances from GM, possibly an extended warranty on the top material and mechanism at no charge if you are going to drop 75 large on the ZL1 vert.
I say let them put their money(extended warranty) where their mouth is.
GM says they have a good product...I'd say prove it with backing of extra warranty!!!!
Good luck with your decision...the ZL1 vert would be an awesome machine!!

-Mike

[95birdible]

This car and the old one were both a 1SS. Never had a cover on either on them since I don't have one.

[99firehawk]

Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert

Glen,
since you are in Canada as well,
I purchased my 2011 vert from wilson niblett in richmond hill.
I have had the 5th bow disease.
I dealt with steve plumley service manager at wilson niblett for the repair.
They were one of the only dealerships I could think of that could possibly have it done(repaired) right as they are used to dealing with high end corvettes and their owners.
very professional and understood all my concerns and was well versed on the tops when I asked.
5th bow replaced.so far so good.I do have a couple of minor rubs marks and have had the latest tsb/recall done to the top at the same time.
My top was repaired on April 14,2012 and I have the top down every chance I get.Knock on wood, no leaks or other issues with the exception of the minor rub marks.
I would really push for assurances from GM, possibly an extended warranty on the top material and mechanism at no charge if you are going to drop 75 large on the ZL1 vert.
I say let them put their money(extended warranty) where their mouth is.
GM says they have a good product...I'd say prove it with backing of extra warranty!!!!
Good luck with your decision...the ZL1 vert would be an awesome machine!!

-Mike

Thanks for your replay Mike.

Wison-Niblett is the store I have my order in with (I think it was your recommendation to deal with Darryl, which I did and he is awesome). Sounds like they have treated you well and are trying to alleviate the situation as best they can.
I like your suggestion of an extended warranty on the top but imagine it would fall on deaf ears with GM if it is not an widely acknowledged issue ....especially with the "new" top on the line now that looks like it may be causing similar issues. I also don't think the dealership would offer additional coverage for free on a specific area of the car.
I am fine with some wrinkles that will tighten up in the sun (had many verts over the years and am used to what the stowed position does to tops)....but don't want one that has a design flaw that causes premature wear and pressure points that will look brutal and shorten its lifespan.

With the 2013 ZL1 vert build delay until August, looks like I have a bit of time to wait and see, but am concerned at this point.

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by 99firehawk

Thanks for your replay Mike.

Wison-Niblett is the store I have my order in with (I think it was your recommendation to deal with Darryl, which I did and he is awesome). Sounds like they have treated you well and are trying to alleviate the situation as best they can.
I like your suggestion of an extended warranty on the top but imagine it would fall on deaf ears with GM if it is not an widely acknowledged issue ....especially with the "new" top on the line now that looks like it may be causing similar issues. I also don't think the dealership would offer additional coverage for free on a specific area of the car.
I am fine with some wrinkles that will tighten up in the sun (had many verts over the years and am used to what the stowed position does to tops)....but don't want one that has a design flaw that causes premature wear and pressure points that will look brutal and shorten its lifespan.

With the 2013 ZL1 vert build delay until August, looks like I have a bit of time to wait and see, but am concerned at this point.

Glen,
I have posted a couple of pics of my roof that I took yesterday(don't worry about the white dots that appear in the 1st photo as it was raining slightly when I took the photo) and is posted on the facebook group page that Jason,95birdible had started.
Talk to the dealership about your concerns.Also after talking to the dealership, see who they can recommend at GM headquarters.It would be reasonable to think that GM or dealership may extend the warranty at the very least at a reduced cost, as I don't think either one would want to lose the sale at 75K approx.

Glen, also there was a current tsb/recall mainly to address the rub marks.This was issued for the early build dates.My vert had this applied to it as well when the 5th bow was repaired.

Finally, maybe call steve plumley service manager at wilson niblett , he is very well versed on the tops and the issues(at least it seemed to me that way) and maybe get his take on things...just a suggestion.
(I also think he has been doing some of his homework on camaro5 to be up to speed on whats happening)
good luck
-Mike

[99firehawk]

Excellent.....thanks Mike. Good suggestions!

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

This car and the old one were both a 1SS. Never had a cover on either on them since I don't have one.

At the risk of turning your thread into another tonneau cover on vs tonneau cover off discussion, I'm of the belief that the movement of the uncovered top while driving contributes over time to SOME of the rub marks and broken bows. I'm hard pressed to believe this movement does't stress the top's fabric and mechanics. I have not seen another manufacturer's convertible top flap around in the breeze going down the highway like the Camaro top does when it's uncovered. And I know you can argue that Chevy doesn't include the cover with every trim level so therefore it isn't needed but to me that's an awfully big assumption. Until Chevy or GM officially say it's not needed, I personally consider it a design flaw not to include one with every trim level given the amount of movement the top exhibits when left uncovered.

[SnowVert]

Birdible,

I'm so sorry to hear this. I am well aware of all of the work that you have done on this issue, as it has made life a little easier for all of us in our dealings with GM and dealerships. I filed the BBB complaint on mine last week and put in there that I was seeking a new car as resolution. I may have to rethink this and go with a refund instead. I can't believe that these rub marks continue to rear their ugly heads. I'm sick and tired of running mine too and from the shop every month (8 trips so far and the dealership supposedly has a new top on order so #9 is just around the corner).

Have you advised GM or your dealership that you are seeing the rub marks again with this car? Keep us all posted as you struggle through this next phase of Camaro convertible ownership.

Thanks again for all your work

[SnowVert]

Originally Posted by hawk02

At the risk of turning your thread into another tonneau cover on vs tonneau cover off discussion, I'm of the belief that the movement of the uncovered top while driving contributes over time to SOME of the rub marks and broken bows. I'm hard pressed to believe this movement does't stress the top's fabric and mechanics. I have not seen another manufacturer's convertible top flap around in the breeze going down the highway like the Camaro top does when it's uncovered. And I know you can argue that Chevy doesn't include the cover with every trim level so therefore it isn't needed but to me that's an awfully big assumption. Until Chevy or GM officially say it's not needed, I personally consider it a design flaw not to include one with every trim level given the amount of movement the top exhibits when left uncovered.

I have rub marks that are clearly from my tonneau cover and I have some very serious ones that are clearly caused by the flapping in the wind when the cover isn't installed.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to the tonneau vs. no tonneau discussion. The problem is a poorly designed and engineered product, not a cover or no cover problem (although a nice hard cover similar to the Corvettes or my previous Solstice probably would've solved many of these issues...).

[Chevrolet Customer Svc]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

It more than sucks. Cannot wait for one of the GM service reps to chime in on this one. Hope they know my back story before they do. I guess I will be sending another email off to Jack saying WTF? I should of just went the lemon law route on the old one instead of letting them make it right this time.

I can understand your concerns with the rub marks on your convertible top. If you would like to PM me with your VIN, I can see what options are available to you. I look forward to hearing from you.

Brandon
Chevrolet Customer Service

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc

I can understand your concerns with the rub marks on your convertible top. If you would like to PM me with your VIN, I can see what options are available to you. I look forward to hearing from you.

Brandon
Chevrolet Customer Service

BRANDON,

WHAT A BUNCH OF BULLSH**!!!

please for everyones sake, if you don't have something constructive/positive to add...then don't.
responses like this just piss people off.
and do your homework!!!

this guy is on his SECOND convertible after GM bought back his 1st due to problems.

WE, AS VERT OWNERS ARE TIRED OF YOUR(GM'S) BS.
ALL WE ASK IS THAT GM JUST FIX THE PROBLEM WITH THE TOPS!!!!!

AND STOP WITH THE BS SMOKE AND MIRRORS...IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

[brengeek]

Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert

BRANDON,

WHAT A BUNCH OF BULLSH**!!!

please for everyones sake, if you don't have something constructive/positive to add...then don't.
responses like this just piss people off.
and do your homework!!!

this guy is on his SECOND convertible after GM bought back his 1st due to problems.

WE, AS VERT OWNERS ARE TIRED OF YOUR(GM'S) BS.
ALL WE ASK IS THAT GM JUST FIX THE PROBLEM WITH THE TOPS!!!!!

AND STOP WITH THE BS SMOKE AND MIRRORS...IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

You summed it up all in one post.

[triplethreat]

Originally Posted by hawk02

At the risk of turning your thread into another tonneau cover on vs tonneau cover off discussion, I'm of the belief that the movement of the uncovered top while driving contributes over time to SOME of the rub marks and broken bows. I'm hard pressed to believe this movement does't stress the top's fabric and mechanics. I have not seen another manufacturer's convertible top flap around in the breeze going down the highway like the Camaro top does when it's uncovered. And I know you can argue that Chevy doesn't include the cover with every trim level so therefore it isn't needed but to me that's an awfully big assumption. Until Chevy or GM officially say it's not needed, I personally consider it a design flaw not to include one with every trim level given the amount of movement the top exhibits when left uncovered.

I have the rub marks and I use my tonneau cover everytime. So I would say that it had no effect on getting the marks or not. I have less than 4K on the car with over 2K highway top up. The other 2K would be split between top down and up city driving. So I think it is more a like the saying "their are only two types of motorcycle riders: those who have lay their bike down and those who will." I think their are only two types of 2011-2012 Vert owner's "those with rub marks and those who will get rub marks."

[95birdible]

I am finally back from the dealership about my "dirty rub mark." When I first showed up the adviser said "You have got to be fuc&ing kidding me." Came back when the manager was back from lunch. He said oh that is just dirt it will come right off. Then he got glass cleaner and a toothbrush and wiped it out. That is what it looks like after in the picture I attached. You be the judge. If it comes back, I head to a different dealership.

And Brandon, you are just doing your job. But, you do not know my back story do you? Well here it is in a nutshell about my old car that GM bought back.
On day 2 of ownership the passenger seat bottom tore. 2 window regulators replaced. Window trim replaced. Paint on the doors touched up as it was chipping off. Top replaced at 5 weeks. Handle for top broke. Brake reservoir was leaking. Flood in the back seat. This is all from 8/4 thru 11/1/11 when I put it in storage. Total time for service 27 days. From delivery on 8/4/11 thru 3/18/12 total time in the shop for service and waiting on parts is about 110 days. Over 3 months with only 8 months of ownership. I have talked via email to the heads of the Camaro program over my old car. I am not going to start a case with a service rep. If I have a problem, I am going to the top again. While I appreciate you trying to help us, until GM actually steps up to the plate and retrofits all the bad tops, we are going to be a thorn in GM's side.

[AintQik]

Its not gone I can see it in the crappy web pic. It will be back, but I pray I'm wrong.