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Old 01-21-2007, 02:35 AM   #18
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ShelbyGT500 dont get me wrong about the Lightning and Cobras they were the top dogs of the 90's The main point I was trying to make is that there is no real comparison between the Z28/SS and a cobra. I just dont like it when someone bashes one of the big three and any of their products. Yes I am brand loyal however my brand loyalty is to Chevrolet Dodge and Ford. I will always buy American cars. Further more I agree that the cobra was top dog it is just my love for the Camaro being my first car if only for a month is undying. I have always liked the looks of the camaros the most. Ya the 80's were a trying time looks wise but they were trying times looks wise for the mustangs too. I have never liked the looks of the fox body mustangs. And please dont stop giving your opinions. All opinions are greatly appreciated. They make for good conversations. Please continue to give yours.
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by shelbyGT500 View Post

svt cobra from 93-to current were always faster stock for stock. (street cars)I know you might say well gm didnt have a svt program but thats too bad.They had their choices.Top line to top line.Chevy has always been beat.Corvette is the exception.But you all know thats not in the same class.
I smoked plenty of 90's cobras in both my stock 93 T/A and my stock 95 T/A and neither of my cars were even WS6.



In the later years the numbers on paper were close to the same, I know a few years of the cobra, maybe like 97-99, had issues putting the power to the pavement. Something about either a lot of drivetrain loss or a bad rear end. In 03 When the supercharger came in is when it was a no contest

Here are some comparisons, keep in mind that these are z28's not SS, SS is specialized by SLP which I think would be equivalent to SVT for the stangs

93 Cobra
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 5 liters
Base Engine Type: V8
Horsepower: 235 hp
Max Horsepower: 4200 rpm
Torque: 280 ft-lbs.


93 Z28
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 5.7 liters
Base Engine Type: V8
Horsepower: 275 hp
Max Horsepower: 5000 rpm
Torque: 325 ft-lbs.


95 Cobra
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 5 liters
Base Engine Type: V8
Horsepower: 240 hp
Max Horsepower: 4800 rpm
Torque: 285 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4000 rpm

95 Z28
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 5.7 liters
Base Engine Type: V8
Horsepower: 275 hp
Max Horsepower: 5000 rpm
Torque: 325 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 2000 rpm


97 Cobra
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.6 sec.
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 4.6 liters
Horsepower: 305 hp
Max Horsepower: 5800 rpm
Torque: 300 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4800 rpm

97 Z28
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.8 sec.
Base Number of Cylinders: 8
Base Engine Size: 5.7 liters
Horsepower: 285 hp
Max Horsepower: 5200 rpm
Torque: 325 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 2400 rpm
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:13 PM   #20
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Guys, I'm sorry...but I have a feeling the 93 Cobra had a wee bit more hp than that and was most likely faster than a Z28. Not trying to start an argument here or anything, but I've experienced the 93 Cobra first hand. My previous roommate had a 93 5.0 H0 (stolen from my old apt complex) and then bought the 93 Cobra (which I "picked up for him" after having his alarm installed). It only took me 2 hours to go about 7 miles to drop if off at his work....hehehehe... So here it is. I've driven the Cobra...it was #*#*#*# fast! I have also driven his 97 LT1 Z28 and it sure did not feel like keeping up to that Cobra. I don't have factual written info...just first hand experience driving both. I could be wrong and it could be different when running them side by side...but let's be real....the fox body 5.0 ltr Mustangs were FAST. When they slapped in the 4.6 ltr V8, they screwed up big time and there's a ton of people out there who will agree with me on that one. I loved that 5.0!
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:11 PM   #21
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Yep, I have no personal experience with the FOX body Cobras.
My discussion above refers to the production models GT and Z28 respectively. Once you start talking about SVT and SS Camaros and the other tuner models, it's all bets off.
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:53 PM   #22
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Opinions are what keeps this thing going here's a long post

Hey Shelby GT500 don't back off man. I've read all the opinions and seen the facts and here's my .02 cents...

Of course this story has to start with "when I was back in HS" but that's when I first started driving. We all know the stories, lol. Up here on Long Island in the early 90s the modded 5.0 stangs ruled the road.

They were legendary for bang for the buck. But there were a few Chevy enthusiasts with some money that had the modded z-28's that would spank the fords. I only liked the notchback verts on the fox bodies. Other than that I give style points to Chevy in that time frame, from the 80s-early 90s.

I could never afford the car I wanted in HS so I drove a '78 Buick regal with the 5.0 motor. It had some spunk that car and a few backseat adventures haha.

Anyway it was a long time before I got my first pony car and that's when I started selling Fords in 2001. I sold a 2002 Mustang GT 5 spd to myself and then the mustang fever began. I started going to car shows and keeping my stang detailed and clean, it had no performance mods just body stripes on the lower rocker panels and tints.

I sold it a couple months ago with 49k on the clock and 3 accidents. lol...1st accident was 10k in damage, front end collision, both airbags deployed, major body work. It was never the same after that.

Anyway I had my fair share of street races in the stang and I lost every time to the Z28. The car was a pig actually and if I had the money I would have preferred the Camaro SS.

I now drive a 2000 Blazer LT, it's my 2nd GM car, first Chevy, and I'm never looking back. I love the Blazer, and can go on and on about it, but this is a Camaro forum.

I'm looking at 3rd and 4th gen SS Camaros on Ebay right now and I see a few I like...who knows this might tide me over until the 5th gen is here. I'm doing some research and find that a lot of F body cars need the sub frame connector mod right off the bat. Especially if you pull into steep driveways or intend on doing any kind of mods.

The other popular troubleshooting mod is going with the aluminum driveshaft to eliminate vibrations. I've been in a few friend's camaro's where there is some serious vibes during deceleration from high speeds with no braking.

I hope the 5th gen doesn't have these issues. As most of us may know before you can modify a muscle car and make more power you need a solid foundation to build on. How much money will GM spend on styling and power compared to durability and handling?

Hopefully I can just drop a supercharger and exhaust in the 5th gen (when they come out) and have no worries or would I have to spend more money in frame mods so I don't torque the car to shreds...
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:40 AM   #23
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Sparky76, I've never heard of anyone having serious vibrations due to the drive shaft. I'm thinking that someone ran over something or bottomed out somehow. Also, sub frame connectors are more than just a good idea when you start getting into the heavy mods. But for regular driving around and an occasional trip to the track, stock is fine. You won't hurt or twist anything.

I know quite a few people w/ 4th gens and it's pretty much the same across the board...they are very reliable. I'd say, the only recurring problem w/ my 4th gen is the brakes...actually it is specifically the rotors warping. It happened on all 3 of my 4th gens. Of course, there are a lot of guys complaining about loosing the rear end and breaking drive shafts. But, then again, those are usually modded up and are not completely built to handle the extra added power.

If you are serious about getting into a 4th Gen, there are a bunch out there that are really nice. It is not difficult at all to find an 01/02 w/ LOW miles and in a good price range. If you don't find what you want, wait a couple weeks and you will find what you're looking for. Good luck!
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky76 View Post
Hey Shelby GT500 don't back off man. I've read all the opinions and seen the facts and here's my .02 cents...

Of course this story has to start with "when I was back in HS" but that's when I first started driving. We all know the stories, lol. Up here on Long Island in the early 90s the modded 5.0 stangs ruled the road.

They were legendary for bang for the buck. But there were a few Chevy enthusiasts with some money that had the modded z-28's that would spank the fords. I only liked the notchback verts on the fox bodies. Other than that I give style points to Chevy in that time frame, from the 80s-early 90s.

I could never afford the car I wanted in HS so I drove a '78 Buick regal with the 5.0 motor. It had some spunk that car and a few backseat adventures haha.

Anyway it was a long time before I got my first pony car and that's when I started selling Fords in 2001. I sold a 2002 Mustang GT 5 spd to myself and then the mustang fever began. I started going to car shows and keeping my stang detailed and clean, it had no performance mods just body stripes on the lower rocker panels and tints.

I sold it a couple months ago with 49k on the clock and 3 accidents. lol...1st accident was 10k in damage, front end collision, both airbags deployed, major body work. It was never the same after that.

Anyway I had my fair share of street races in the stang and I lost every time to the Z28. The car was a pig actually and if I had the money I would have preferred the Camaro SS.

I now drive a 2000 Blazer LT, it's my 2nd GM car, first Chevy, and I'm never looking back. I love the Blazer, and can go on and on about it, but this is a Camaro forum.

I'm looking at 3rd and 4th gen SS Camaros on Ebay right now and I see a few I like...who knows this might tide me over until the 5th gen is here. I'm doing some research and find that a lot of F body cars need the sub frame connector mod right off the bat. Especially if you pull into steep driveways or intend on doing any kind of mods.

The other popular troubleshooting mod is going with the aluminum driveshaft to eliminate vibrations. I've been in a few friend's camaro's where there is some serious vibes during deceleration from high speeds with no braking.

I hope the 5th gen doesn't have these issues. As most of us may know before you can modify a muscle car and make more power you need a solid foundation to build on. How much money will GM spend on styling and power compared to durability and handling?

Hopefully I can just drop a supercharger and exhaust in the 5th gen (when they come out) and have no worries or would I have to spend more money in frame mods so I don't torque the car to shreds...


Ive heard alot about people having vibration issues with the driveshafts and having to switch to the 1LE Aluminum, They even had a recall for them, I cant remember what years tho

You can go to F-Body.com and use the search feature to find ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING your looking for, and if by chance you dont find it post and you will get numerous answers and help from some of the most knowledgable 4th gen people I know of, I frequented the site when I had my T/A, there are some threads in there that state all the weak points and common problems for the 93-97 LT1 F-body and the 98-02 LS1 F-body
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Old 01-22-2007, 07:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky76 View Post
Hey Shelby GT500 don't back off man. I've read all the opinions and seen the facts and here's my .02 cents...

Of course this story has to start with "when I was back in HS" but that's when I first started driving. We all know the stories, lol. Up here on Long Island in the early 90s the modded 5.0 stangs ruled the road.
Again, the conversation is STOCK FOR STOCK

There is no doubt the modded F body and Mustang market is still smoking hot
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:08 AM   #26
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hmm I remember somewhere on tv back in 99 that the cobras were having so many problems that a v-6 camaro could beat them. at least that's what the tv show said. I was trying to pull up an story from like car and driver on that. and they do talk about the problems and that a 98 ss could walk them with out any problems and then they compared a 98 ss to an 01 cobra. why? I mean shouldn't they have compared an 01 to an 01? b/c we all know that in 01 we started seeing the z06 heads on the f bodies. which in turn gave them more power. hmmm oh well. still stands that mustangs need power adders to beat a camaro at the track.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
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hmm I remember somewhere on tv back in 99 that the cobras were having so many problems that a v-6 camaro could beat them. at least that's what the tv show said. I was trying to pull up an story from like car and driver on that. and they do talk about the problems and that a 98 ss could walk them with out any problems and then they compared a 98 ss to an 01 cobra. why? I mean shouldn't they have compared an 01 to an 01? b/c we all know that in 01 we started seeing the z06 heads on the f bodies. which in turn gave them more power. hmmm oh well. still stands that mustangs need power adders to beat a camaro at the track.
I doubt any reliable source wrote a V6 Camaro could beat a Cobra...

I do remember the 1999 Cobra had a big issue with the IRS breaking under power, alot of local guys replaced them with GT rear axles. SVT did some restructuring not too long after that.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:50 AM   #28
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Quote:
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I doubt any reliable source wrote a V6 Camaro could beat a Cobra...

I do remember the 1999 Cobra had a big issue with the IRS breaking under power, alot of local guys replaced them with GT rear axles. SVT did some restructuring not too long after that.
well like I said it was a tv show that said it. I was trying to find it on the net here. but can't. so I'm prob remembering wrong but according to the story I was reading they weren't even making the claimed 320 hp in 99 that they were suppose to. it was a car and driver story that stated this http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ang-cobra.html
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 01-22-2007, 01:07 PM   #29
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The HP issue sounds familiar now that you mention it. I know they 86'd the Cobra for a few years after that.
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:15 AM   #30
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Well lets see,Up until the gen4 camaros and not until 98 i might add, chevy has NEVER been on top of the sports car /muscle car wars.


80s was ford dont even try to tell me that the irocs could hang with 5.0s.
90s was ford. When svt was introduced, they never looked back.Camaros were always heavier.Hopefully they are smarter this time.The new mustang is a tank.Ford did not need a supercharger on the 93-95 lightning and was 100 ci smaller and stil competed with the 454ss and was a drivers race.Not that it matters but the lightning outhandled the 454ss by um........alot

yes chevy had the great ones here and there but they were never on top.

if you remember correctley in the 80s ford 5.0s were a much closer to the "corvette" flagship car than any z28 camaro at the strip (street cars)The z28s (irocs) were not even close to comparison for 15 years!!!!.....fact

svt cobra from 93-to current were always faster stock for stock. (street cars)I know you might say well gm didnt have a svt program but thats too bad.They had their choices.Top line to top line.Chevy has always been beat.Corvette is the exception.But you all know thats not in the same class.



Thats a clip from a ford magazine. I dont know where you get your facts from but heres some from you Mustang guys
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:44 PM   #31
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As an interesting data point folks...

I have NEVER owned a corvette/mustang/challenger/camaro... and I find myself looking over my finances carefully to find out how I can get one in '09! I think this new Camaro has enough style, performance, and value to draw in an audience that might never have looked at GM before.

I have never given Camaro's a second look... the stigma is thick in these parts. But the new one _could_ break this trend if GM does it right (which it sounds like they are). I had been saving up to get a used BMW M3 or Audi S4, but if the new Camaro delivers, GM will have my $$$.

Additionally, quite a few younger coworkers of mine (all men BTW) are talking about purchasing either a new Camaro or Challenger... its going to get VERY interesting soon.

CB
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Old 02-01-2007, 04:05 PM   #32
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I have NEVER owned a corvette/mustang/challenger/camaro... and I find myself looking over my finances carefully to find out how I can get one in '09! I think this new Camaro has enough style, performance, and value to draw in an audience that might never have looked at GM before.

I have never given Camaro's a second look... the stigma is thick in these parts. But the new one _could_ break this trend if GM does it right (which it sounds like they are). I had been saving up to get a used BMW M3 or Audi S4, but if the new Camaro delivers, GM will have my $$$.

Additionally, quite a few younger coworkers of mine (all men BTW) are talking about purchasing either a new Camaro or Challenger... its going to get VERY interesting soon.

CB


I am right there with you. My dad owned a 3rd gen Camaro that I always adored, but I never owned one myself. I always thought the first car i would buy new would be a Camaro until they ceased production on 02. Now I am just very anxiously awaiting the re-release!
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Old 02-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #33
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I am right there with you. My dad owned a 3rd gen Camaro that I always adored, but I never owned one myself. I always thought the first car i would buy new would be a Camaro until they ceased production on 02. Now I am just very anxiously awaiting the re-release!
Yeah... in New England Camaro's have been relegated drag strips and high school parking lots. Very few people drive them around day to day.

I used to think it was because New England winters tended to keep people away from RWD sports cars, but SO many people drive BMW's around here that I have changed my mind.

I think the new generation of dynamic stability control systems have made RWD just fine for 95% of winter driving... and the other 5% you shouldn't be driving anyway!

My plan would be to keep my current MINI Cooper S as my commuter (a job it does very well) and drive the Camaro in the nice summer weather!



I am also tempted by the new Mitsubishi Evo X, but its just plain UGLY... and although I'm sure its FAST as HELL, I just don't think I could take looking at that in my driveway every day...

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