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Old 05-25-2009, 07:57 PM   #18
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So the AFR should be lower than 11.4?

Can the ECU be tuned or does it need to be replaced to get more performance? Hopefully someone makes a program for that soon =)
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:54 PM   #19
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It should be higher than 11.4. That's very, very rich (lots of fuel, not enough air). 12.5 is about where you want it on a naturally aspirated motor for the best power. 14.7 is the "perfect" ratio, or stoiciometric ratio, where you have 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel by weight and it creates a complete combustion.

And the ECU can be tuned (hopefully) to adjust this and many other parameters.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68 View Post
It should be higher than 11.4. That's very, very rich (lots of fuel, not enough air). 12.5 is about where you want it on a naturally aspirated motor for the best power. 14.7 is the "perfect" ratio, or stoiciometric ratio, where you have 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel by weight and it creates a complete combustion.

And the ECU can be tuned (hopefully) to adjust this and many other parameters.
Ahh thanks Bud. I'm a tuner-tard

So a CAI should bump it up to 12.5+?

Atleast these numbers aren't to far off from a New Mustang Gt...
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:17 PM   #21
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I cannot wait until someone rips a 12.x with the V6.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:39 PM   #22
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I cannot wait until someone rips a 12.x with the V6.
With nothing but bolt on's.

With stock tires.

10-11 second twin turbo cars in the future?
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:51 PM   #23
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With nothing but bolt on's.

With stock tires.

10-11 second twin turbo cars in the future?
Guys were rippin' 9's with the Grand Nationals. Those V6's are nothing compared to this new engine.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:17 PM   #24
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how about weight? im guessing the GN is quite a bit lighter? or am i wrong? And what can we expect with a tune and CAI?
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:24 PM   #25
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Guys were rippin' 9's with the Grand Nationals. Those V6's are nothing compared to this new engine.
G-bodies are also solid axles with a thousand pound weight difference.

But you are right, the 3800 is an old, old design.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:17 PM   #26
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Ahh thanks Bud. I'm a tuner-tard

So a CAI should bump it up to 12.5+?

Atleast these numbers aren't to far off from a New Mustang Gt...
No, the computer right now is basically telling it for X amount of air entering the engine, inject Y amount of fuel to create a certain A:F ratio. The O2 sensor lets it know where the mixture is.

The thing about it is that at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) the engine goes into what is known as Open Loop mode. This is because the O2 sensors that come on cars are really only accurate close to the 14.7:1 ratio. As it gets further away from that number, it becomes exponentially more inaccurate. This is why a good tuner uses a wide-band O2 sensor. Anyway,when this happens, the ECU stops taking readings from the O2 sensor and basically injects a pre-determined amount of fuel. Engineers from the factory tend to play it safe and tell it to inject more than what is needed. You don't want to run lean at WOT. It would take more than a CAI to cause it to run 12.5:1. A tune is definitely in order.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 AM   #27
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The V6 in the Camaro is a very impressive motor. It looks like it will be a hell of a platform to mod.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:33 AM   #28
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Is the gmpp CAI good enough?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:32 AM   #29
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Where did they put the o2 sensor for the dyno run? if they put it at the tailpipes, it will always read leaner because of the cats.
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Old 05-26-2009, 05:51 AM   #30
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With nothing but bolt on's.

With stock tires.

10-11 second twin turbo cars in the future?
Doesn't the v6 motor have to high compression for TT's?
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Old 05-26-2009, 06:20 AM   #31
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Doesn't the v6 motor have to high compression for TT's?
if your going TT then your replacing the pistons to low cr pistons anyways so your all good

but yeah the cr is gonna be high in a DI engine
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:44 AM   #32
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Where did they put the o2 sensor for the dyno run? if they put it at the tailpipes, it will always read leaner because of the cats.
Yes, in the pipes -- and it should have correction for it being down stream.

When my headers arrive from australia, I'm adding an extra bung for my WB. We'll get solid numbers pre-cat before doing any forced induction.


So much for the "don't mod it" warning from my wife LOL
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:51 AM   #33
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Doesn't the v6 motor have to high compression for TT's?
The DI motor does have a high static CR, but you got to remember that it's making those numbers on 87 octane. The DI bit pushes the normal CR boundaries quite a bit, even under turbo applications.

Static CR itself isn't the problem, it's the ability to fine tune that defines how well a forced induction system runs. Lowering the CR gives you more of a safe-zone for screw ups vs. running right on the edge of a FI+high CR situation. Hell, I've seen some 12:1 CR port injection motors w/ full turbos put out insane numbers and still be well within limits -- it's all in the tune. One major advantage (as I see it) is the hardware already present from a computer standpoint...the Motec ME9. This little bastard is capable of a super high degree of monitoring and correction, especially compared with older technologies. It's like Atari vs. Xbox360 man, crazy stuff. That was the biggest problem w/ DI up until the last few years -- having an ECU with enough power to control the system, and still be commercially cost effective.

From a mechanical standpoint, the V6 bottom end is forged, pistons are aluminum w/ heat coating to deal with the stress of DI. They also have factory oil squirters ...

Now, if they'd only come out with the 7.2L V12 engine... that would be a hellova lot of fun to tune.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:08 AM   #34
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Now, if they'd only come out with the 7.2L V12 engine... that would be a hellova lot of fun to tune.
that would be fun
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